Xmas is coming! Time to let the Santa myth go.

My question is why are left wingers constantly trying to tear down our culture's traditions, but protect and promote other cutlers? Just look at how leftists defend Islam.

Of Course there's a Santa ! Who do you think stuffs the stockings and eats the cookies.....

The way I see it, kids only get to be kids once. Might as well do everything we can as parents to ensure they have a blast in their childhood. I didn't read everyone's replies, but I think Heff had it spot on when he talked about the magical thinking that is innate in children. Nothing wrong with encouraging that. They have their whole lives ahead of them to be serious and realistic.

reply to post by zonetripper2065

Originally posted by zonetripper2065
reply to post by 1/2 Nephilim

 

Big deal get over it, and dont tell others how to raise their kids.

It is a big deal and I wont get over it. I have been on dates and asked "So do you want to have kids?" and KNOWING it will be a deal-breaker have replied "Idk, do you wanna tell them Santa is real?" to which I get asked why and I say because I would never want to lie to my kids. There would never ever be a good reason to do so and as long as that is how the world continues to work I do not want to bring another person into it.

I never told anyone how to raise they're kids, I never demanded "You people stop your dishonest ways right this instant!" I suggested it isn't good for them, whether or not you folks can understand why it is fundamentally wrong is your call. Actually in this case, its more than just a simple decision. We are a dumbed down culture repeating an extremely dumb tradition. Understanding the basic principle that "lying to your children is never the right thing to do", from the replies in this thread, appears to be more of a question of capability as to whether or not you can even understand why IT IS WRONG TO LIE TO YOUR KIDS, EVERYTIME YOU DO IT.

On ATS, of all places on the web people can't seem to grasp that simple concept. Kind of surprising..

My family will continue to foster the "Santa Conspiracy" for the sake of my grandgirl. When she bangs on her toy piano wailing "Twinkle, twinkle little star" and asks us if she sounds pretty we always tell her she sounds as beautiful as a songbird. When she chases us with arms outstretched moaning "Zombie!" we act scared and run. We play along when her favorite stuffed bear Mr. Roosevelt needs a cookie. All of it is part of the magic of childhood.

Too often these days we see six year old girls dressed like trollops, staring at themselves in the mirror wondering if they are "sexy" enough or if they are too fat because the media wants them programmed to think they are 20 years old instead of just six- when their biggest cares should be making mud pies and playing hop scotch. Why make them grow up so fast?

Santa is a part of childhood that teaches our children that anonymous giving that makes others happy without the giver receiving personal recognition is a GOOD thing. Even after the belief in Santa is outgrown the lesson is instilled in them for a lifetime. Sure, there are those like the OP who resent being lied to, but if their parents had never "disillusioned" them about Santa they would find some other reason to accuse their parents of traumatizing them anyway. My guess would be when they have children of their own they might feel differently toward Santa.

i have read a lot of, "i can remember posts" and they sound nice to me but unfortunately that was a different time. we live in a world where excessive consumerism is burying the planet in filth and degradation. we waste far more than most country's ever see and that's a huge part of our global economy problems, that and rotten bankers\politicians.

we have lost our way and i can't find a way to explain to my family why we are buying loads of gifts and million's of people worldwide are starving to death. excessive consumerism is fueling the corporate machine and has been for decades. most no longer use their money, but money they borrow at compounded interest, goldman sacs loves people that want to beat the Jone's in mega gifts and that's what it has become.

if you want a day to come together and celebrate i would suggest making a new one that doesn't involve gifts of money, but gifts of life and love instead, Jesus would have probably liked that.

i'm not anti celebration and in fact most native people celebrate all kinds of occasions, but allowing this one to become so bastardized is terrible and speaks loudly of our sick society.

Santa is harmless, they will grow out of it, unlike religion, once you go pure religious, your mind is f***ked for life.


I'm AG/Atheists(i don't think there are many pure atheists), but i left my niece and nephew believe in it, until their 7. One of them figured out it on her own, other one was shocked that his parents bought her gifts.

My son found out about Santa when he was seven. He came home from school and told me the story and burst into tears. It was difficult to console him, but then I explained that he gets to be "Santa" for his own children one day, and that put a big smile on his face and the tears disappeared. It made him really happy that he felt like one day he would share in that joy again. We only bought a certain amount of gifts for Christmas, and did not make a huge deal out of the presents, and that was really the only time of year we bought him things other than his Birthday, simply because he wanted them. Just because you promote a belief in Santa, does not mean it has to be all about gifts.

There are some children who don't have such a great life, and for them this is the one time of year that holds magic, my Mother was one of those children. To each his own, but for some, the dream made life a little more bearable, kind of like religion.

There are plenty of organizations a Christmas that focus on giving to those less fortunate, at least in our area.

Originally posted by 1/2 Nephilim

Looking back to my childhood and the way I look at people now, I wouldn't have been ashamed of my elders for telling me the truth OR never telling me that laundry list of lies to begin with. If anything it would be the opposite, I would have respected them more. I remember being 7 or 8 and other kids moms, teachers, grown-ups bending down asking "Looking forward to Santa coming?" and being like No? wtf do you take me for?

So my point is that by telling your kids these myths not only are you losing they're trust but your teaching them that its alright to be dishonest sometimes. Telling them about Jesus or your religion is totally different, you believe that yourself. Telling them things that you know for a fact are untrue is wrong though. My story about my friend and his son at the beginning of the thread was totally made up, now does that make me a bad person? No, but it makes me dishonest and you will be less inclined to believe what I say now. Thanks for reading!

edit on 26-11-2012 by 1/2 Nephilim because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-11-2012 by 1/2 Nephilim because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-11-2012 by 1/2 Nephilim because: (no reason given)

I feel sorry for you....


But You are a Real downer!!!




I have a 13 year old daughter and LOVED every year she believed in Santa .. She holds no hard feelings and came to the conclusion on her own and thought it was Funny!!
I feel bad for you that you were Deprived of the AWESOME excitement on Christmas eve..and the like...
Try and look inside for some Happiness this Holiday..We all need it Sometimes!

reply to post by littled16

Originally posted by littled16
My family will continue to foster the "Santa Conspiracy" for the sake of my grandgirl. When she bangs on her toy piano wailing "Twinkle, twinkle little star" and asks us if she sounds pretty we always tell her she sounds as beautiful as a songbird. When she chases us with arms outstretched moaning "Zombie!" we act scared and run. We play along when her favorite stuffed bear Mr. Roosevelt needs a cookie. All of it is part of the magic of childhood.

Santa is a part of childhood that teaches our children that anonymous giving that makes others happy without the giver receiving personal recognition is a GOOD thing. Even after the belief in Santa is outgrown the lesson is instilled in them for a lifetime. Sure, there are those like the OP who resent being lied to, but if their parents had never "disillusioned" them about Santa they would find some other reason to accuse their parents of traumatizing them anyway. My guess would be when they have children of their own they might feel differently toward Santa.

This is one of the best replies in favor of the tradition yet so I wanna give this some notice. We touched on it a little those examples you give hit home for me big time. I have a 4 year old niece and she has an amazing imagination, she says some of the craziest stuff.. nothing gets by her. She knows whats pretend and what is not though. The other day I poked her or tickled her or something and out of nowhere she says "You dirty dog!"

Me!? A dirty dog!? How did you know? and we proceeded to go back and forth for 20 minutes one of us pretending to be the dirty dog.. Telling the other to sit, shake, roll over. That is the funnest kinda stuff to me..

However, I'm going with the flow. If she wants to dream it up I will go along but will I read her a bedtime story about Trolls kidnapping a princess and tell her that really happened after the story is over? No, its just a story "and ya liked it anyway didn't ya?". Knowing her she would probably say yeah, I don't want to be scared of trolls..

On one other particular thing you said, how does Santa not recieve personal recognition?

If they want they're toys and are bad all year he is the guy they have to answer to.
If you dont leave a stocking out like he expects you to it won't get filled up.
If you don't leave him milk & cookies he may not leave anything at all! lol..

Mom & sometimes Dad, recieve PLENTY of personal recognition via Santa. Why does it take that medium though? Why can't the parents just get the recognition straight-forward? "If you don't be good then I, ME, YOUR PARENT will not be pleased with your behaviour." The lesson being instilled in them for life is that there is actually ONE person out there who makes it his only purpose in life to make everyone happy for no reason, and then you find out he isn't real. Great lesson..

reply to post by 1/2 Nephilim


The receiving of gifts from Santa never depended on the behavior of our children or our grandchild. We never threatened them with not receiving gifts if they didn't behave a certain way. My own parents never did that either.

As far as the recognition, yes the kids give the credit to Santa, UNTIL they learn the truth- that the whole time Mom and Dad did this groovy thing for us without any recognition, even letting somebody else take the credit for it. They learn that it's a really cool thing to give just to make others happy or to help them, even if they themselves get no personal recognition and the "glory" goes to some charitable organization, disaster relief group, etc. They learn that personal recognition in itself is not the goal, but bringing happiness to others is what is important.

Cretins, all of you.

I saw Santa Clause.

/TOA

reply to post by littled16


I hope LittleBlackEagle doesn't mind me quoting them but this reply seems like a very good one to your statement. It was on Page 2 of the thread.

Originally posted by LittleBlackEagle
reply to post by riverwild

 

it was the truth, whether it sounds good or not. you know as well as i do how this holiday has evolved and it isn't about friendship and sharing, family or caring, it's about big corps selling their wares as fast as possible. it's about them quilting families into believing they must buy their kids the most expensive gifts as possible since they are competing with all the other parents.

this spirit of giving they constantly pump people up with is nothing more than marketing and sales, same tactics they use for every other holiday. the true spirit of giving can be seen in good people everyday of their lives and shouldn't be dirtied by the notion that money has anything to do with it.

whens the last time you saw an add for a christmas gift that entailed actually helping people out? hey this is the CEO of wally-world and we would like to give a hundred families the chance to travel abroad and help feed and educate some third world fellow humans? how about, "this christmas please save some money you have for gifts and donate to those less fortunate", never ever heard any big box stores say anything like that.

perhaps, "this christmas we have decided to give all our employees off for christmass eve since this isn't about the money, but about family and caring"... reality, this is the ceo of wally-world and we're friggin open every minute of everyday because we want more money and our employees don't mean chit."

reality it seems, is not so popular these days.

I believe in celebrating the Santa myth until their toys become better than mine. You know, laptops, Iphones, brand new car. Even a 46 in. flat screen TV seems like an item I had to earn for myself. It doesn't seem fair. I got clothes, jewlery and perfume for christmas back in the day. Asking for my own telephone was rejected because it would cost $300. a year to keep it which is not even equivilent to the gifts teens get today. So I guess what I am saying is that Santa is great until each gift edges at the $100. mark.

reply to post by 1/2 Nephilim


That quote is pertinent, but only if you buy into the "big box store" brand of commercialism. Not all people go on a commercial induced spending spree for Christmas.

In our family we do buy a toy for each of the small children, but there are no high dollar gifts bought- no video games, no smart phones, no tablets. And as far as the adults go, we either make the gifts ourselves or they have to come from the dime store or a clearance rack. My favorite gift last year was a homemade afghan, my husband's favorite was a dish of homemade truffles. Christmas in our family is not judged successful by how much money is spent, but rather by the joy we bring to each other. I think the problems that you and LittleBlackEagle are referring to belong to those who have forgotten this.

reply to post by MidnightSunshine


LOL. I gotcha

The problem is that the Santa figure isn't really a deterrent for bad boys and girls. Who is afraid of a jolly, fat guy?

We should be telling them that a winged horror flies over homes late at night to steal the souls of children who don't mind their parents, but if they are obedient, they might possibly receive a gift or two.

reply to post by littled16


From what I understand those types of xmas days are rare among the people who celebrate the holiday. I think thats wonderful, I wish more people did focus on the closeness of family and appreciation of little things but most don't anymore.

My whole thing is there is no point in lying to children, they would enjoy it JUST AS MUCH without all the Santa mumbo jumbo. When they find out its not real though, you have no way of knowing how they will take it. Theres no way of knowing how that will effect them in life. It may not hurt them detrimentally, it may actually cause some distrust, but one thing is for sure. I don't know any child that has ever been happy about finding out Santa isn't real. There is no good side to that.

reply to post by jheherrin


I have a better idea! Why not tell them that if they dont ask for forgiveness for things they shouldn't be sorry for, attend church weekly, and accept belief in an even more far-fetched story than the Santa one they will burn for eternity in pain and anguish and misery. Thats a money saver for the holidays..

reply to post by Logos23


I completely agree. My husband's dad... (my husband's parent never married and split shortly before he was born, each of them remarried.) He had his second son with his wife when my husband was 20. We were on our way to being married and planning on having our first child in 2 years time. He came to our home to visit one year around the holidays, now, my family and my husband are Christian, but his father is just to the extreme (yes, to me, even as being a Christian, there are those who are just so extreme at it that its annoying and off putting and really seriously goes against exactly what Jesus spoke about in the bible to begin with.) anyway...He and his wife had taught their son that Santa wasn't real, that the story was based off of a saint, but that they don't believe in Saints, because thats only for Catholics .... Santa takes away from Jesus....etc etc etc. But here, you have this child, 4 years old, parents telling him Santa is not real, but theres these cartoons of the man, and movies, people dressed up in the mall...etc, decorations all around my home, etc. We go to church that Sunday, and lo and behold..there is this man... who, if there could be a perfect image of Santa? He was it! Red pants, white shirt, white beard, big belly, most beautiful blue eyes.... all the children were running up to him to hug him ...right there in church (and no..he was not a Santa ) so, my father in law's son..runs right up and exclaims, I knew he was real! I knew it! Now, of course, my husband's father admonished him and talked the whole service about how someone at church should have pulled the man aside so the children didn't react that way...etc etc. We just rolled our eyes, went about our day..which included a trip to six flags...where there was batman. He loved batman..so there we are...just coming from Church, where Santa is a figment of the imagination, and not real and how dare anyone should believe in him or do that at church....and no we do not teach our children about a fake man who brings presents because it's very wrong to lie to your children that way...straight on to six flags where theres batman, robin, joker, cat woman,,.. and I forget all the other superheros and every where we turn my husband's father is exclaiming "Look ...... it's batman!" "look ...... it's robin!" .... at the end of the day he then turns to him and asks "So.... what did you think about seeing and meeting the actual batman today!? how cool was that? now you can tell all your friends that you actually got to meet Batman!" .... My husband and I just were so confused...how in the world was that any different? not to mention that here....they spent 4 years telling this kid..Santa is not real..but guess what...he believed anyway.

So, I don't think it has a thing to do with your parents, I don't think the story of santa has a thing to do with if your gonna trust your parents or not...it comes down to deeper issues than that, on if you distrust the world around you and your parents, I don't think the story of Santa has anything to do with that in anyway what so ever. Either your parents have instilled trust and confidence of themselves in you, or they didn't...Santa ain't gonna change that either way.