Xmas is coming! Time to let the Santa myth go.

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posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by 1/2 Nephilim
Since you went in to so much detail about how personal this is to you I would like folks to notice the trend here by your example, the people who encourage this myth and holiday surrounding it have a very personal attachment to it and that exact attachment and nostalgia IS they're arguement as to why they support it.

The kids are not the only ones being rewarded here. Don't you guys think I realize that seeing they're smiling little faces under the xmas tree is probably the happiest you are all year as well?


This is it exactly, except to me this is a great reason FOR continuing the myth, and yet somehow you are thinking this is a reason for discontinuing it? Odd. Apparently great memories, great fun, excitement and happiness = BAD! Look I understand that some of you somehow were damaged by believing in Santa, but most of us weren't, so trying to push your problems onto the rest of us isn't going to work very well.




posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 10:13 PM
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Christmas was always a magical time for me as a child. It was my older brother who told me the truth and I was pissed at him.
At first I wondered why my parents would lie but quickly realized that they went to a lot of trouble to make things so special for me. No one should take that joy, wonder and magic away from a child. To this day I still love Christmas with the love, laughter, music, lights and joy that it brings.



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 10:16 PM
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Santa is like ATS,
we log on everyday hoping to see a conspiracy.
Then some debunkers tell us the truth and to deny ignorance,
But the next day,
we log on looking for that conspiracy.

I think it is the same for kids,
they want to believe.



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by 1/2 Nephilim
He says this is just for fun and no harm will be done once the kid figures it out and I questioned that. Nothing got resolved or compromise be made, he told me I don't have kids so I wouldn't know and I left shortly after.


And your friend is right. Why does it bother you so much what others do? You are taking great interest in how others lead their lives, raise their children and go about their day it seems. Let it go. Your friend's kid isn't yours and what he says to the little bugger is not your business. How they want to celebrate Christmas, either as a religious holiday or a tradition passed on, is of no concern of yours. Even if the story is completely nonsense; even before I got to the end of your thread, it was rife with inconsistencies.


So my point is that by telling your kids these myths not only are you losing they're trust but your teaching them that its alright to be dishonest sometimes. Telling them about Jesus or your religion is totally different, you believe that yourself. Telling them things that you know for a fact are untrue is wrong though. My story about my friend and his son at the beginning of the thread was totally made up, now does that make me a bad person? No, but it makes me dishonest and you will be less inclined to believe what I say now. Thanks for reading!


You can let it go, but how about you allow others, regardless of what you think, live their lives? Stop sticking your nose in others business or expend so much energy to make everyone like yourself.



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 10:28 PM
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edit on 26-11-2012 by Nkinga because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by Hefficide

Kids have magical minds. They can turn a cardboard box into a fort, a stick into a rifle, plastic effigies into living, breathing people, and the underside of their beds into places where monsters live.

It's part of their developmental process - this magical thinking. Life whittles that aspect of their minds down over time and naturally. Why rob them of a bit of magic that happens to also bring them toys and promotes the notion of giving to others and being around family once per year?

~Heff


Exactly!

Imagination is fun and healthy. Everything that you see around you (your computer, furniture, light fixtures, glasses, curtains) all came out of people's imagination. Without it, we wouldn’t have such things. If you never believe, or allow yourself to imagine, then you'll never develop an imagination.

Are times getting too cynical for Santa now?



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 10:40 PM
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Originally posted by sticky
I'm with neph on this issue

I don't understand why we should perpetuate these certain myths. They seem harmful to me. I once wrote a thread about it also.

continue...

So I took my nephew to see the guardians, but I can't bring myself to spoil him... Best line I told him was that the economy was very bad so Santa wasn't coming this year. He almost believed me, poor guy almost fell on the ground.


Welll....while your nephew almost believed you and almost fell on the ground in obvious sadness .... what a great memory to have of your uncle by the way. My nieces and nephews will be rolling out dough and making cookies and smiling..... but yes.... yours sounds much healthier for children.



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 10:40 PM
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Originally posted by OMsk3ptic
.....some of you somehow were damaged by believing in Santa, but most of us weren't,....


your belief did not damage you. but being lied to surely did.

do you claim that you were not lied to? do you also claim that lies are not inherently damaging?

especially ESPECIALLY lies told to children.

you claim to not be damaged by this. I claim that you are but have not yet realized it.



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by 1/2 Nephilim
reply to post by Nkinga
 


Ok, but "Saint Nicholas" didn't live at the north pole, have flying deer or sneak into EVERYONE IN THE WORLDS HOUSE in one night through the chimney.. shoving that idea down kids throats can't be healthy!

Thats wonderful that your very large family enjoys spending time together so much, alot of big ones don't so much, alot of people dread xmas. Its a shame that it takes holidays based on fictional stories to get you guys together. Since you went in to so much detail about how personal this is to you I would like folks to notice the trend here by your example, the people who encourage this myth and holiday surrounding it have a very personal attachment to it and that exact attachment and nostalgia IS they're arguement as to why they support it.

The kids are not the only ones being rewarded here. Don't you guys think I realize that seeing they're smiling little faces under the xmas tree is probably the happiest you are all year as well? Again, its a shame that it takes a "special day" all based on a big lie for you to have that only once a year when you should experience such things so much more often.
edit on 26-11-2012 by 1/2 Nephilim because: Edit: I'm agnostic for the record, not atheist.


WOW...What ALOT of assumptions you posted in just a few lines. Who the heck said only at Christmas we get together? and that it has to take a holiday to get us there? Most of us live within an hour of each other. I figured we were only talking about Christmas and St. Nick and so therefore that was what I addressed. Do you have any idea how many birthdays there are amongst such a group?! LMAO...seriously. Christmas is the least of our worries! Lets not forget to mention...Thanksgiving, New Years! Which is actually our biggest party yet..because not only is it family, but friends and neighbors as well. .... Actually, if you want to know the truth...the children love New Years better than Christmas. They get to stay up late, light off fireworks, my great grandmother who is 92...leads a parade every year around the yard with every single child banging pots, pans, and lids! Blowing those little party blower thingies. Easter of course...ham upon ham upon ham with salads and fruit desserts, huge egg hunt... we do not do easter baskets..usually the kids still have plenty of candy left over from Halloween and Christmas ... speaking of Halloween...that would be another on the list I suppose we would have to do away with for children and myths and lies

There are of course as I said...birthdays...lots of them, so much so, that we don't do gifts, the party is the gift, because it's such a huge to do to get cake and food for that many people, we usually order a bouncy house for the children.

and then there is summer....we own a family cabin on the river and we all gather there each summer, most of us camp out in our tents and only use the cabin for bathroom needs and cooking, the older people stay inside.

It's just your typical cliche italian family...very few of those left to be sure, and someone is always mad at someone, or this one did this, that one did that, yada yada yada..but when there is a gathering to be had, surprisingly no one is mad anymore trust me..not just christmas. which you assumed. Seems like there are alot of assumptions going around with this thread, based largely on opinion, rather than fact. Shame that.

As for Christmas...yes, we do enjoy seeing the children's faces it's so great to see them happy and excited, there are so many of them...at the young age...10 and under, so, instead of getting each one of them presents, we instead use a fold out table...give each of them a round of cookie dough and they make cookies ..we do this every year, it started about ... 15ish years ago? maybe? somewhere around there. When my brothers and sisters began having babies and then more babies, and then the cousins and then of course if any of them married someone who was previously married and had children from that marriage....you get the picture I hope.... and we realized...secret santa (where you pull a name out of hat) wasn't quite so cheap anymore.... nor fun. So, we decided instead, the teens would make ornaments, the children would make cookies...after the first year..we moved that table and dough and little fingers outside LOL. But if you were to ask my children their favorite thing about Christmas? It would be those cookies. My 11 year old is doubly excited this year..being 11 and a bit older..she gets to make cookies and ornaments. My 5 year old just wants to know how many chocolate chips she can eat before her tummy might hurt. The adults will be cooking, decorating the house (my house is the biggest amongst us, so for whatever reason the festivities always end up here. ... hectic? yes! but every year my husband laughs when I say "this was the best christmas yet" My daughters get 3 gifts each. 2 from mommy and daddy, 1 from santa. yes, even the 11 year old who doesn't believe any longer, her smile is still as big.

But not just at Christmas. some children are so excited to see their cake at birthday time, some are so excited to find the sparkly eggs.... Doesn't come down to just one holiday or story for us..sorry you assumed so.

As for it being the happiest I am all year as well?... NO. Obviously life is life, it has its ups and downs, but to say Christmas is my happiest? sometimes, yes, but I find I'm just as happy when my children discover something new at the museum, or when my 5 year old tells me something so fascinating from kindergarten as she buckle's her seat belt (because it's just so darn cute that she knows how to do that) Or when my 11 year old is excited because she hit 119 reviews on her fanfiction for Avengers.

No, santa doesn't live at the northpole, or have flying reindeer..which oddly enough, I'm not sure we have ever actually touched base on that..... ??? I know she likes to watch the cartoons of rudolph, but I'm not sure she picks that out as being real..she has never mentioned it. but there are also no fairy godmothers or mermaids, I'm not going to stop my child from watching cinderella or ariel because of that. Or never take her to a magic show simply because its an illusion.



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 10:43 PM
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reply to post by 1/2 Nephilim
 


As far as I can tell, all Holiday's secular and non secular are based on nostalgia, one way or another.
They typically celebrate something from the past. Many have some not-so-accurate stories to go along with them.
If you think it's harmful to tell the Santa story, that's ok. Many others think it's just fine to share that story, then let them "in" on it, when they get older. When you come over for dinner, we'll tell everyone about Uncle Scrooge.



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 10:45 PM
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reply to post by OMsk3ptic
 



Originally posted by OMsk3ptic

Originally posted by 1/2 Nephilim
Since you went in to so much detail about how personal this is to you I would like folks to notice the trend here by your example, the people who encourage this myth and holiday surrounding it have a very personal attachment to it and that exact attachment and nostalgia IS they're arguement as to why they support it.

The kids are not the only ones being rewarded here. Don't you guys think I realize that seeing they're smiling little faces under the xmas tree is probably the happiest you are all year as well?


This is it exactly, except to me this is a great reason FOR continuing the myth, and yet somehow you are thinking this is a reason for discontinuing it? Odd. Apparently great memories, great fun, excitement and happiness = BAD! Look I understand that some of you somehow were damaged by believing in Santa, but most of us weren't, so trying to push your problems onto the rest of us isn't going to work very well.


Way to omit a sentence, the last one directly after that, and THATS your rebuttal. All I want to reply to this with is what I ALREADY SAID that you omitted.

"Again, its a shame that it takes a "special day" all based on a big lie for you to have that only once a year when you should experience such things so much more often."



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by tgidkp

Originally posted by OMsk3ptic
.....some of you somehow were damaged by believing in Santa, but most of us weren't,....


your belief did not damage you. but being lied to surely did.

do you claim that you were not lied to? do you also claim that lies are not inherently damaging?

especially ESPECIALLY lies told to children.

you claim to not be damaged by this. I claim that you are but have not yet realized it.


I had to laugh at this..for some reason the Kelly Clarkson song my daughter always listens to just played in my head

"Ain't it something y'all
When somebody tells you something bout you
Think that they know you more than you do"

You say that we are damaged but just don't know it,...and the flip side is..my belief is that you have bigger issues with your parents and how you view them other than Santa Claus.



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by ownbestenemy
 


"inconsistencies"!?!?

you mean like saying that lying is bad and then rationalizing this one little lie?



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 10:50 PM
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Originally posted by tgidkp

Originally posted by OMsk3ptic
.....some of you somehow were damaged by believing in Santa, but most of us weren't,....


your belief did not damage you. but being lied to surely did.

do you claim that you were not lied to? do you also claim that lies are not inherently damaging?

especially ESPECIALLY lies told to children.

you claim to not be damaged by this. I claim that you are but have not yet realized it.


I can't speak for anyone else, but my first thought after the lie was just how much trouble my parents went through all those years just to make things so special and magical for me. I was grateful and wouldn't trade those memories or the lie for anything in the world. How could anyone be damaged by such a thing?



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by 1/2 Nephilim
 


if people don't want to believe in santa anymore, that's fine, i guess.

Same for the Easter Bunny et al.

In our house we still believe. And everyone still gets presents from Santa.

To each his own.



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 10:51 PM
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One of the stories my Dad always tells about my childhood is that one Christmas while opening my gifts I asked my parents "Did Santa bring me all of these?" To which they replied "Yes" I then asked my dad "So why didn't YOU buy me any presents then?"


I can still just about remember the excitement of Christmas Eve, not being able to sleep, waking my parents up extra early so I could open some gifts before anyone else, but I really can't remember at what age I stopped believing in Santa or if I ever actually really believed in him at all.

One of my huge pet peeves is lying, even small lies of omission or "white lies" drive me crazy I'm not sure we can class telling kids about Santa as harmful though, we don't see lines of adults in the psychiatrist office complaining of being affected by Post Traumatic Santa Disorder or have many people having flash backs over their Santa trauma every time they hear Sleigh Bells
edit on 26/11/12 by davespanners because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 10:51 PM
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Yeah man, get a life and get some kids. Believing in Santa is magic and should not be taken away from children.
Your life is sad man. There's enough crap going in in this world which kids find out about soon enough.
Let em be kids for a few short years! Didn't do the rest of us any harm!



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by davespanners
 


Santa is the spirit of Christmas, the spirit of giving.

So in our house, Santa is very real and will continue to be real.

*meh*

Personal choices, I suppose.



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by Nkinga
 


oh yes indeed. I do have issues with my paresnt. do you feel that you have unlocked some part of me unknown to myself?

that is completely aside from the fact that IT IS A LIE


LIARS LIARS LIARS. ALL OF YOU.


not a single rational or logical rebuttal yet in this thread. just a bunch of appeal to emotion nostalgia.



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 11:11 PM
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Originally posted by tgidkp
reply to post by Nkinga
 


oh yes indeed. I do have issues with my paresnt. do you feel that you have unlocked some part of me unknown to myself?

that is completely aside from the fact that IT IS A LIE


LIARS LIARS LIARS. ALL OF YOU.


not a single rational or logical rebuttal yet in this thread. just a bunch of appeal to emotion nostalgia.


No. What I feel and perceive is that there are two sides of the coin. There are healthy families (by healthy I mean, for the most part, loving, caring, understanding, a few hiccups thrown in to be sure, because we're all human, but mainly loving good influences) Who, love their children, take care of their children and the family surrounding them, and therefore, Santa is viewed as fun and as great memories and magic, rather than lies and sadness. That healthiness is passed down (you know how they say...bad seed=bad apples, good seed=good apples,) and therefore, for generations, Santa is viewed as fun and great memories and becomes tradition. Like in my own family. Where my parents were in fact really great parents who raised us and were there for us and nurtured us, loved us, guided us, etc etc with much love, compassion, respect and care, and therefore, the story of Santa did not in any way hurt my relationship with them at all. My father sadly is passed away now, but my mother and I are so very very close. (We call each other every morning) this love and care and closeness..would be there whether Santa was there or not.

Then there is the flip side....those families where there is damage, not so much care, not so much love, not so much nurturing, some great serious issues. Where..whether Santa was told to the child or not..they would still distrust their parents when they became older..which is what I meant when I said...there are deeper issues with your belief that Santa is damaging other than the story of Santa itself. I believe, that whether your parents told you about Santa or not..you would still have distrust and greater issues with them..Santa is not the real issue of your distrust, nor the reason you are so adamant that parents are liars and immoral.

Do I feel I unlocked something you didn't know? No...I was simply dishing you up a serving of your own food.





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