Xmas is coming! Time to let the Santa myth go.

reply to post by DarknStormy

Originally posted by DarknStormy
I'll give you credit for one thing, you didn't make a thread about the 21st of December..

Actually I did, its saying that we should stop believing in that too. Funny

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Well, my parents didn't teach me the Santa Claus lie, and I still had loads of fun at Christmas time. I wasn't taught the Ishtar Bunny, or the Tooth Fairy either. Yet they both believed in God. Go figure.

yours will not be a popular sentiment, op.....

.....which I find bizarre because there really is no question whatsoever that this is an outright lie (even if only by omission). you'd think conspiracy theorists would be unfavorable to lying?!....especially in the generalized social sense.

perhaps some people find it melodramatic, but I actually DO RESENT being lied to. the older I get the more I realize just how many lies lies lies exist in modern society.

what in the hell is a "true lie"?

seriously?

mental acrobatics at its finest. a survival trait for living in a society of lies.

Originally posted by sarra1833
Oh do come on. Let kids have their fun. There is nothing wrong with Santa or Easter Bunny etc. It was a HUGE staple in my family. It was so exciting to simultaneously stay up waiting for Santa and his reindeer and trying to sleep so he'd come faster. It was amazing to wake up super early and see the stuffed stockings and such and see the cookies and milk gone. Sure mom and dad hated being woken at 5am by a shrieking maw of kids but hey, looking back, I know they got joy out of it too. Seeing Santa at the mall was the BEST THING EVER.

I never denied my son the innocence of Santa/Easter Bunny. No kid I knew, even when I was a kid, was mad when they realized those were just fun Holiday traditions. Maybe it's just bitter adults who want to ruin something so innocent. It's not a lie, persay; it's a reason to give your kids glee and fun for a few weeks out of the year; leading up to the holiday and a few days after.

Kids don't hold the Santa/Easter Bunny traditions against parents. What they DO hold against parents are those true lies. Maybe lies like, "Yes, you'll get this if you clean your room, etc" and they don't get a thing. Or "Don't worry, daddy will come back home later" as mom knows dad is gone for good. "I"ll play with you after dinner" and they never do. Stuff like that is serious lies that do negative to a child. The joys of Santa et al do NOT do that to kids. Just in warped adults warped minds, it apparently does.

reply to post by sarra1833


You seem pretty adamant about this so I'm sending this generalized reply your way.

My OP was a tad light-hearted but in all seriousness, these fairytale traditions are absolutely terrible. It sounds like you guys were of the same opinion as I was during the beginning of my life, being that Xmas was the MOST IMPORTANT DAY OF THE YEAR.

Teaching your children to be good so that they will be rewarded has to be the worst way to do so and it sounds pretty familiar... Oh right! Thats the mentality that has caused the most death and destruction and evil the human race has ever seen. During those most crucial years of development people are teaching they're children that the reason they should be "good people" is because they will be rewarded if they are.

The rewards stop coming eventually, so whats the point in being good then? You grow up and you find out that it appears the BAD people are the ones being rewarded the most. This be good = reward (be it for a toy or nice afterlife) mentality is nasty business. People should be teaching they're children to be good people because there are not enough of them in the world, not so that they will get an ipad from a fictional character.

reply to post by 1/2 Nephilim


I can see the guys damage from here. He is letting the 5 year old enjoy the game, and the 9 or 10 year old will get to participate in a different way. My 10 year old son knows that there is no Santa, but he and his older sister still love to play Santa for younger kids. In fact -- my 14 year old is dressing up for pictures with Santa next weekend.

It's a harmless little human ritual that damages no one, unless the focus on getting becomes more important than the spirit of giving.

there most certainly is a santa claus but he doesn't leave gifts for everyone, just debt. that's right, he takes a little more freedom and money from everyone he can and stuffs it into the pockets of the elite.

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
It's a harmless little human ritual that damages no one, unless the focus on getting becomes more important than the spirit of giving.

Its not harmless, you just said yourself. This consumer driven holiday revolves around kids and I assure you, the majority of them are much more interested in receiving than the giving, lets be honest. As for the spirit of giving, being a person who doesn't indulge in this asinine holiday I give loved ones gifts on NORMAL days. I will see something I think one of my friends or family will like and I get it for them and give it to them that same day, out of the blue! No special occasion required! and here is a kicker, they are actually surprised!

Originally posted by Xoanon
reply to post by 1/2 Nephilim

 

Xmas is coming! Time to let the Santa myth go.,

Alright then 1/2Neph,

Bon Voyage then, off you go, let us all know how it goes in your desolate, Santa Claus-less vaccum.

I will put out a tiny stocking for you in the hopes that your chilly heart is somehow turned towards the North Pole at Christmas.

Love,

X.

edit on 26-11-2012 by Xoanon because:

Well said my friend.

If I could give you 100 stars for your post, it would be less than what is deserved.

Bravo!

reply to post by 1/2 Nephilim


Fair enough. I will consider your point of view on this.

Originally posted by LittleBlackEagle
there most certainly is a santa claus but he doesn't leave gifts for everyone, just debt. that's right, he takes a little more freedom and money from everyone he can and stuffs it into the pockets of the elite.

Come on now!

That was a little much.

reply to post by 1/2 Nephilim


Well, Lets get one thing straight first. Santa Claus, or rather Saint Nicholas was an actual real person. His beliefs in Jesus Christ and his following of Jesus Christ, may be questionable to you and others who do not believe in Jesus Christ, but, the person himself, Saint Nicholas was an actual real person. This real person, did in fact periodically throughout the year in his surrounding village, unknowingly gave to those in need (mostly children) by leaving, coins, oranges and sometimes clothing and other foods on doorsteps...as well as yes...socks that hung on fireplaces to be dried after they were washed, (which is where the whole christmas stocking thing comes in) So, that being said, when we pass on that tradition of giving to each other in the name of Saint Nicholas, we are not lying, but passing on a tradiiton.

Now, on to the whole fun thing in what you believe or don't believe. That, is simply a matter of opinion. YOU may not have found it fun, or in looking back on it, may not have remembered it being fun. But I can tell you that being in an italian family of 11 Aunts, 15 Uncles, 4 sets of Great Grandparents, 2 sets of Grandparents, Numerous cousins (around 30+ because we are very close nit and more like brothers and sisters, and so therefore, the children of those cousins which would be our 2nd cousins, end up calling us Aunts and Uncles instead) and 11 brothers and sisters...who each have 2 children and one of us has 3 children..along with their spouses.... there is not one person in our entire family who does not find it FUN. Or magical, or special. My brothers and sisters and I have actually discusses this extensively because EVERYONE seems to be on this kick of "The story of St. Nick is lying to your children" .... None of us.. not a single one of us EVER found it nor looked at is as our parents or families lying to us. We found it to be them keeping the magic and specialness and fun alive, the same fun they experienced growing up, the same magic they remembered growing up. Along with every other holiday myth there is WE love it...and always have. My oldest daughter is now 11, and she has great fun in helping me create the same magic she enjoyed with her little 5 year old sister.

When she was younger, she loved fairies and tinker bell....so every spring we would shut all the lights off in the house, (we have a huge retaining hill with a bunch of junipers that cover the ground, I have small lights within the junipers and various little garden sculptures, including little sprite and knome houses) and watch the fairies (fireflies) come out to play when everyone is going to sleep because it's dark. She has always loved fairies, books, movies, stories, etc. She is 11 today as I mentioned and has an extensive fairy garden of wooden houses and furniture that she has built herself..with mini plants all around.

So, just keep in mind, what you may find to be Lies and not so fun...may be someone else's extremely unforgettable memories and great fun as well as the avenue to their very own imagination. I mean come on...when you watch a movie...do you believe thats real? so, then should we not allow children to watch movies, cartoon, or read books, because...their lies and not real? or is that fun?

As for belief... that is not for you to judge. I mean, I love it when people who are not Christian, want to go on about a Christian believer being a hypocrite and backwards and sand people beliefs, and etc etc etc...the biggest...Judgemental, and then that same person turns right around to judge what Christians believe in. Just because your and Atheist, doesn't mean the rest of the world is. So..time to let the Santa thing go? why? because you say so? talk about pushing an agenda. If we follow your sound judgement and let the "santa thing" go, then there are other things that will have to be let go as well or we might be lying to our children: Any movies that are not based on factual happenings, this would include animation, as thats not how real items look. Any books that are not based on factual happenings. Any video games, toys that cause imaginary play, oh, and you might as well get rid of hair dye, tattoos and anything of that kind because things do not really grow that way. Lets see...ah, magicians, no more magic shows, those are lies. Ah, stuffed animals...because it's a lie to make a child believe you can cuddle with a bear.

reply to post by riverwild


it was the truth, whether it sounds good or not. you know as well as i do how this holiday has evolved and it isn't about friendship and sharing, family or caring, it's about big corps selling their wares as fast as possible. it's about them quilting families into believing they must buy their kids the most expensive gifts as possible since they are competing with all the other parents.

this spirit of giving they constantly pump people up with is nothing more than marketing and sales, same tactics they use for every other holiday. the true spirit of giving can be seen in good people everyday of their lives and shouldn't be dirtied by the notion that money has anything to do with it.

whens the last time you saw an add for a christmas gift that entailed actually helping people out? hey this is the CEO of wally-world and we would like to give a hundred families the chance to travel abroad and help feed and educate some third world fellow humans? how about, "this christmas please save some money you have for gifts and donate to those less fortunate", never ever heard any big box stores say anything like that.

perhaps, "this christmas we have decided to give all our employees off for christmass eve since this isn't about the money, but about family and caring"... reality, this is the ceo of wally-world and we're friggin open every minute of everyday because we want more money and our employees don't mean chit."

reality it seems, is not so popular these days.

reply to post by Nkinga


if your child were to ask if that big scary dinosaur in Jurassic park is real, you would not hesitate to say no.

thinking that your movies strawman is a legitimate comparison shows that you do not have the thinking capacity to understand the profound negative impact that this "harmless" lie might actually have.

I figured out Santa wasn't real when after years of being good and asking for a computer and panther I didn't get them.

I also figured out the Easter Bunny after my mom told me I had to give my blankey to the Easter Bunny. Well a few months later one of the kids from her class showed up with MY blanket! I knew it was mine cause my GG (great grandmother) had made it!


I don't know how I'll deal with Santa when my kid gets that age. I will figure it out later. I don't really believe in the whole presents thing for Christmas either. Too many people that is all they care about.

reply to post by 1/2 Nephilim


I agree with you and your op. and thank you for standing your ground against ignorance - i think you are brave and strong

however

People should be teaching they're children to be good people because there are not enough of them in the world, not so that they will get an ipad from a fictional character.

this is not a good enough reason. kids are very smart (we all are as a matter of fact unless we behave ignorant in the face of false or inadequate information and/or laziness etc) and they will want to know, why is it important to be good, just because there are not enough - what does that mean.

this I see as a huge problem. we seem to be so bad, we don’t even know why to be good.

unfortunately the reward-system is in place all our lives. e.g. the better you can integrate yourself with the machinations of corporate live the more benefits you have……… etc ……….. even to escape karma, hell or any other educational threats is a reward.

how can you explain to a child what receiving loving light in someone else’s eye does to our blood pressure, hormone levels, chemical balances in the long run, when a quick adrenalin rush feels soooo good.

how can you explain what it does to give that light, how can you explain what all that light does to our earth and our cosmos, how to explain how life would look after us, if we were true to life without lies and deception.

we would have fun all year round, life would make sure of that - i'm sure !

reply to post by tgidkp


Right...because you know, me being 32 and not thinking that my parents, nor grandparents, nor great grandparents, nor aunts or uncles are liars for brining me the joy of Santa Claus when I was growing up and only remembering the times then and now with the fondest of memories, as well as seeing my own child as well as numerous nieces and nephews ages 10 and up enjoying the time as well, would not be experience enough on if it's something to be enjoyed or not. Personally? My opinion, is that anyone who has trouble believing their parents simply because of Santa Claus...has much bigger problems in their family than said Santa Claus. Much bigger issues and possibly much bigger subconscience issues within themselves other than Santa Claus.

As for the dinosaur in Jurassic Park, if my child asked me if that dinosaur were real...(which is odd to me that you pick to talk about if I'm educated enough to handle this conversation and then bring up a totally juvenile movie) which she did when she did in fact see the movie...I would and did tell her the following. Dinosaurs lives millions of years ago, and for the most part became extinct. Some say they evolved into birds, some say alligators and crocs are the longest surviving dinosaurs, but no honey, that one on tv is fake. She then of course wanted to know if we could bring Dinosaurs back like they did in the movie and I told her that I wasn't sure if science was there yet, but the bigger question was..just because we can..should we? .... in the same respect, when she came to me at the age of 8 and asked if Santa was real,.. I told her the following: St Nicholas was real. He was a real person, and yes, he gave gifts, mostly in secrecy much as we tell the story of Santa Claus today. However, he died a long time ago. But, Santa is what you make it, he's as real as you want him to be. Just like your fairies and gnomes. Again.... 11, and she does not count me a liar today. Just as I did not count my mother a liar, nor trust her any less. ... Now her choice in clothing and men is another topic all together. But Santa? NO, I fully trust what my mother told me about Santa.

Letting a kid believe in Santa does no harm to them and it is fun for them. Kids naturally tend to believe in things that don't exist anyway ( Monsters under the bed for example).... So why not?

Even if you never told your kid about the myth of Santa, they would hear it from other kids and probably end up believing it anyway. Kids tend to find out the truth on their own and when they do, they let their parents know and that is the end of that.

I found out that Santa was not real when I was about 6. I waited up for him one night...I stayed awake in bed waiting for any sounds coming from the living room. When I heard him, I snuck through the house to find my mom putting presents under the tree.

Was I upset? No. I was like , Oh... Well, that does make more sense, now that I think about it, then I went back to bed, opened my presents the next morning and then told that I saw my mom putting the presents under the tree.

It just doesn't hurt anyone, so, why not? If you want to tell your kids that Santa is not real, that is your right.... I will raise my kids the way I see fit.

Peace and love and Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.

I'm with neph on this issue

I don't understand why we should perpetuate these certain myths. They seem harmful to me. I once wrote a thread about it also.

continue...

So I took my nephew to see the guardians, but I can't bring myself to spoil him... Best line I told him was that the economy was very bad so Santa wasn't coming this year. He almost believed me, poor guy almost fell on the ground.

reply to post by Nkinga


Ok, but "Saint Nicholas" didn't live at the north pole, have flying deer or sneak into EVERYONE IN THE WORLDS HOUSE in one night through the chimney.. shoving that idea down kids throats can't be healthy!

Thats wonderful that your very large family enjoys spending time together so much, alot of big ones don't so much, alot of people dread xmas. Its a shame that it takes holidays based on fictional stories to get you guys together. Since you went in to so much detail about how personal this is to you I would like folks to notice the trend here by your example, the people who encourage this myth and holiday surrounding it have a very personal attachment to it and that exact attachment and nostalgia IS they're arguement as to why they support it.

The kids are not the only ones being rewarded here. Don't you guys think I realize that seeing they're smiling little faces under the xmas tree is probably the happiest you are all year as well? Again, its a shame that it takes a "special day" all based on a big lie for you to have that only once a year when you should experience such things so much more often.