Outrage after popular students are found murdered in man's basement after 'they robbed his home on

Originally posted by MidnightTide

They didn't deserve to die.

Friends and family have expressed their outrage over the deaths of two popular students shot by a homeowner while they robbed his home - as he revealed he fired 'more shots than he needed to'.

The bodies of cousins Haile Kifer, 18, and Nicholas Brady Schaeffel, 17, were found in Byron Smith's basement in Little Falls, Minnesota on Friday - the day after they were shot dead on Thanksgiving.

When police arrived at his home after reports of suspicious activity, Smith, 64, confessed to shooting the teenagers repeatedly and stashing their bodies after they broke into his home, authorities said.

On Monday, he was charged with second-degree murder and police revealed he told them he fired more shots than necessary after his gun jammed and Kifer laughed at him.

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Role model? Star students? How about repeat break and enter / robbery suspects. If they weren't breaking and entering NOTHING WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. I am sure the usual anti-gun membership on ATS will say he shouldn't have defended his home and property, but like I said, if they weren't breaking the law they would still be alive today. Parents are in part to blame, obviously they didn't teach their children the proper respect of others property and rights. Tired of the "good kids" excuse, your actions have consequences, just as these two found out.

Wow.

So...you've just already decided that the guy who was hiding bodies in his basement is telling the truth about the kids allegedly "breaking and entering", huh?

How do you know he's not just a complete psycho? Maybe he drugged or kidnapped the kids and then shot them when they tried to escape from whatever creepy basement they were being held in? I'm surprised you are taking the word of a guy who was HIDING bodies in his basement at face value.

I don't know about you...but if I ever have to shoot a home intruder in self defense...I'm calling the cops IMMEDIATELY afterwards. Yeah...it's the "antigun membership on ATS" who have the bias and aren't able to see the situation clearly.

Apparently all Jeffrey Dahmer would have had to do if you were on the jury is claim that all those bodies he was hiding was "self defense" from an "intruder" and would have acquitted him, huh??

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
reply to post by Annee

 

Well, this crime wouldn't be punishable by death in AZ..

And I view the mindset of death for anyone who trespasses to be disproportionate.

If the facts stand up that they were committing the crime of robbery. It is not just trespassing.

In AZ - - it is legal to shoot an intruder.

reply to post by PatrickGarrow17


Like I said, why would you do this for people that do not give a damn about you? These people would steal your family heir looms and defecate all over your place for fun! Imagine if one day they broke into someones home and frightened someone so bad they caused a heart attack or something like that?

These people left any rights they had at the window/door they broke into! Why would you defend the flaming criminal? They thought it was hilarious scaring this guy and invading his personal space...

You say you would do this and that, but I bet if it came to it you would cower in the corner sobbing...

reply to post by mee30


Your insult was correct, my pride was so hurt that I just had a quick corner sob over it.

I'm not defending either of them. They were both wrong. What the shooter did was worse, he killed them after they were no longer a threat.

Killing an intruder should be a last resort, that's all I'm saying.

reply to post by Annee


I meant robbery is not a capital offense if caught and convicted. Death is disproportionate justice to a robber.

People should have every right to defend their property. They should still be ethical about it, and only shoot and kill if the situation calls for it.

Originally posted by CX
Don't rob peoples houses.....can't say much more than that.

At that age, they could've given the guy a heart attack and he'd be the one dead.

I say again, don't rob peoples houses.

CX.

Yeah...except that the only "evidence" which suggests that these two kids were "intruders", "breaking and entering" or "robbing" this guy is a wholly unsubstantiated allegation coming from the very guy who was hiding the bodies in his basement.

How do you know he didn't drug and kidnap them? Maybe the boy got free and tried to escape the creepy old man's basement before he was forced to watch his girlfriend get raped and THAT'S when goofball went nuts w/ the gun?

You have NO IDEA AT ALL, and neither do I....but don't you think it's at least a LITTLE weird that the guy didn't call the cops after shooting these two kids? I know I would have.

Doesn't this passage from the linked article get you to take pause for a second or two and say to yourself "Hey...this guy sounds flippin' nuts?"

"'If you're trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again,' Smith, 64, told investigators, according to a criminal complaint filed Monday.

He then shot her several times in the chest with a .22-caliber revolver, dragged her next to her cousin, and with as she gasped for air, fired a shot under her chin 'up into the cranium'.

'Smith described it as "a good clean finishing shot",' according to the compliant, and acknowledged he had fired 'more shots than (he) needed to'."

Here is a picture of the girl. Is she REALLY so scary to a grown man that he has to fire a round into her skull as she's gasping for breath with a newly aerated chest?



I don't know about you guys...but I've never been afraid that 110lb unarmed teenage girl was going to do some sort of physical harm to me in my entire lifetime. Much less to such a degree that I have not JUST shoot her...but KEEP SHOOTING HER. Even calmly going up to her while she's on the ground in a pool of blood and carefully placing a round right into her brain case.

Originally posted by CX
Don't rob peoples houses.....can't say much more than that.

At that age, they could've given the guy a heart attack and he'd be the one dead.

I say again, don't rob peoples houses.

CX.

Yeah...except that the only "evidence" which suggests that these two kids were "intruders", "breaking and entering" or "robbing" this guy is a wholly unsubstantiated allegation coming from the very guy who was hiding the bodies in his basement.

How do you know he didn't drug and kidnap them? Maybe the boy got free and tried to escape the creepy old man's basement before he was forced to watch his girlfriend get raped and THAT'S when goofball went nuts w/ the gun?

You have NO IDEA AT ALL, and neither do I....but don't you think it's at least a LITTLE weird that the guy didn't call the cops after shooting these two kids? I know I would have.

Doesn't this passage from the linked article get you to take pause for a second or two and say to yourself "Hey...this guy sounds flippin' nuts?"

"'If you're trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again,' Smith, 64, told investigators, according to a criminal complaint filed Monday.

He then shot her several times in the chest with a .22-caliber revolver, dragged her next to her cousin, and with as she gasped for air, fired a shot under her chin 'up into the cranium'.

'Smith described it as "a good clean finishing shot",' according to the compliant, and acknowledged he had fired 'more shots than (he) needed to'."

Here is a picture of the girl. Is she REALLY so scary to a grown man that he has to fire a round into her skull as she's gasping for breath with a newly aerated chest?



I don't know about you guys...but I've never been afraid that 110lb unarmed teenage girl was going to do some sort of physical harm to me in my entire lifetime. Much less to such a degree that I have not JUST shoot her...but KEEP SHOOTING HER. Even calmly going up to her while she's on the ground in a pool of blood and carefully placing a round right into her brain case.

reply to post by milominderbinder


The guy admitted to shooting them too many times and that he shot them because they laughed at him... I'm sure you can understand the guys anger... First they break into his little piece of heaven, his "safe haven" his home... Then they laugh in his face!

I nearly want to say that I would love you defenders to actually be robbed while you are in the house, but I really wouldn't wish it on anybody...

Instead of looking from the criminals point of view why not look at it from the old mans point of view? You really think this guy dragged 2 guys into his house and then shot em? Then would tell the police that he shot them for laughing at him? He didn't need to tell them that part and if it were me I wouldn't of... He could of just said he was scared that's why he hid the bodies... But no he told the truth... Why would you think he is lying?

What is more plausible to you? Burglars get shot or some old man goes out and drags 2 lads back to his house so he can shoot them and hide the bodies in the basement? Not saying it is impossible but in the light of his admission I would say VERY improbable...

I just don't get people defending people who would happily break into your house and ROB YOU!

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
Ok, they shouldn't have robbed the house.

They still didn't deserve to die.

Why not?

Now they won't rob anybody else's house.

Star from me to you. Succinct. Logical. Matter of fact.

The only problem with the story so far is that there is a possability he excecuted them after they were no longer a threat. If true, this evolves from reasonable defense of self and property and into the realm of murder. That the bodies were moved before the police were called does not bode well for the homeowner.

As for the whole "good kids and star pupil" nonsense, they say that about every juvenile criminal that gets shot. "Good kids" do not B&E by the very definition.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
Ok, they shouldn't have robbed the house.

They still didn't deserve to die.

Why not?

Now they won't rob anybody else's house.

The only "evidence" that these two kids were "robbing" anyone come from the unsubstantiated allegations of the same creepy old guy who was hiding the bodies in his basement.




It's truly disturbing to me how many people simply accept that they were "breaking and entering" at face value.

How many 18 year old girls do YOU KNOW that would get shot...fall down the stairs...then LAUGH at Captain Creepenstein when his rifle allegedly "jammed"? I would think "pleading for her life" or "sobbing at would could only be the trail of blood left on the floor from her dead cousin" would be a more natural response than "laughing".

"He dragged the body into his workshop and then sat in the chair, the complaint said. When Kifer began walking down the stairs, he shot her and she fell down the stairs.

He tried to shoot her again with his rifle, but the gun jammed and Kifer laughed at him, the complaint noted."

AND...what teenage girl or anybody for that matter would come walking down those stairs after hearing multiple gun shots?

reply to post by mee30

I nearly want to say that I would love you defenders to actually be robbed while you are in the house, but I really wouldn't wish it on anybody..

No, I think you said it.

And that is the mindset that annoys me in this discussion..The idea that an offender of a relatively small crime should receive ultimate justice.

It causes me to speculate that some would welcome an intruder, just to satisfy their bloodlust.

Neither party in this deserves to be defended. But it is the two dead that deserve it more.

Double post...so I'll just add a little.

Why no sensitivity to death? Especially death of two kids...

This is a tragic event. Parents lost children, one stupid action leads to an untimely death. Why no sympathy?

How many 18 year old girls do YOU KNOW that would get shot...fall down the stairs...then LAUGH at Captain Creepenstein when his rifle allegedly "jammed"? I would think "pleading for her life" or "sobbing at would could only be the trail of blood left on the floor from her dead cousin" would be a more natural response than "laughing".

reply to post by milominderbinder


I'd be willing to wager one on drugs. It would fit as to why they were breaking in to his house. But all we have is a bit article and not actual facts, so we will have to wait and see what is what with this.

reply to post by PatrickGarrow17


It wasn't meant as an insult, I really believe you would... Having intruders in your home is no joke... People that do this kind of thing do not give a toss about anything or anyone... Just look at what has happened to people that have been burgled and surprised the burglar...

19 May 2011 Last updated at 07:49 Share this page Delicious Digg Facebook reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Email Print Woman raped by burglar at her north Manchester home

Burglar broke into house, raped student as she slept by her boyfriend, and attacked two other women the same night

Burglar rapes Spanish woman at knifepoint in Bandra flat

Burglars Who Raped & Tortured Woman Jailed in Bradford

Woman tortured during burglary tells of waterboarding ordeal

Coulsdon burglary victim tortured in his own home

Need I go on?

How could it be worse when he didn't go to look for it! They came into his house! If they were not in their they would be alive!

I'm sorry but you are defending the robbers... To me this man has done his community a great service... Robbing houses is the lowest of the low! And it often isn't just a robbery they are after!

reply to post by MidnightTide


Did they deserve to die? Had that been the initial reaction of the homeowner, yes, they deserved to die. But ... reading how the homeowner killed them is a little but ... excessive. It does indeed go well beyond self defense. The threat to him had passed after the first shot, which they likely would have survived.. but doing thing like shooting someone, conversing with them, shooting them several more times, dragging their body across the room then executing them with a close range shot "under the chin and threw the cranium" (especially to a teenage girl?). Yeah.. that's murder.

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
reply to post by mee30

 

I nearly want to say that I would love you defenders to actually be robbed while you are in the house, but I really wouldn't wish it on anybody..

No, I think you said it.

And that is the mindset that annoys me in this discussion..The idea that an offender of a relatively small crime should receive ultimate justice.

It causes me to speculate that some would welcome an intruder, just to satisfy their bloodlust.

Neither party in this deserves to be defended. But it is the two dead that deserve it more.

It has nothing to do with dispensing justice or bloodlust...that is just a bit of silly hyperbole. The issue is, that if you find intruders in your home in the middle of the night, a person has (or should) have the right to defend themselves. Nothing about "justice" or what the usual court sentence would be, because that is not the issue. The issue is about a free citizen being able to protect himself and his in the middle of the night. A law abiding citizen has this right and responsability and, our founding father would suggest, a duty to shoot a criminal in the dead of night. Those who fear getting shot, should not break in. Simple.

OTOH, if this man did administer a coupe de grace and did move the bodies before calling the police, then we have a murder, not a case of self defense. You are allowed to stop the threat by right. Once the threat is over and the person is down, finishing them off is murder. Sounds like this guy is going to end up at the wrong end of a needle if the allegations are true.

Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

The guy admitted to shooting them too many times and that he shot them because they laughed at him... I'm sure you can understand the guys anger... First they break into his little piece of heaven, his "safe haven" his home... Then they laugh in his face!

Incorrect. The deceased ALLEGEDLY broke into his "little piece of heaven" and then an 18 yr old girl ALLEGEDLY "laughed" at him AFTER she was already shot once and her cousin was dead.

The only thing we know FOR SURE is that a creepy old man has the bodies of 2 kids hidden in his basement which seem to have a rather unusual amount of bullet holes in them...even by the shooter's own admission.

Don't you think we ought to ask a couple more questions before just assuming that the kids are the ones at fault?

Instead of looking from the criminals point of view why not look at it from the old mans point of view? You really think this guy dragged 2 guys into his house and then shot em? Then would tell the police that he shot them for laughing at him? He didn't need to tell them that part and if it were me I wouldn't of... He could of just said he was scared that's why he hid the bodies... But no he told the truth... Why would you think he is lying?

I don't think he's lying or telling the truth. What I think is that nobody here has even REMOTELY enough information to EITHER condemn nor acquit this guy of 2 counts of First Degree Murder.

What is more plausible to you? Burglars get shot or some old man goes out and drags 2 lads back to his house so he can shoot them and hide the bodies in the basement? Not saying it is impossible but in the light of his admission I would say VERY improbable...

Personally...I find the nutty old man hypothesis to far, FAR more plausible than a grown man of any age feeling "threatened" by an 110lb, unarmed, 18 yr old girl whose male cousin is already dead. I also find it HIGHLY IMPROBABLE that an 18 year old girl with a dead cousin and one bullet in her already would be "laughing" at her shooter. I also find it HIGHLY IMPROBABLE, that "defending one's property" means putting ANOTHER bullet in this girls head AFTER she was already riddled full of bullets and on the ground gasping for breath.

I just don't get people defending people who would happily break into your house and ROB YOU!

Again...there is no evidence that they broke into this guys house, attempted to rob him, or threatened him in any way.

If they DID...well...that would probably change my opinion. However...I'm not willing to invent evidence which has not been presented just so I can support a love of firearms.

The creepy old guys story DOESN'T ADD UP. NOT EVEN A LITTLE BIT.

Now...I'm willing to cut the dude some slack and say maybe there is a good reason which has not yet come to light as to why his story is so utterly bizarre....but that's much, much different from just saying "Oh well...the kids must have deserved it."

Natural selection is a cold mistress, I guess. =/

Tragedy all around.