What would it take to end the 1300 years of Shia-Sunni Conflict?

What would it take to end the 1300 years of Shia-Sunni Conflict?

Currently, it seems that the Shia-Sunni sectarian strife had risen across muslim nations, as it had for 1300 years. The only lull in the conflict was when Israel gained its independence, with jews being used as a COMMON enemy to unite the 2 sects.

Even after the Arab-Israeli wars ended in the 60s, with muslims, largely sunnis finally sitting down to talk and negotiated for peace, the palestinian refugees became the unresolved issue right up to today, and made use of by one sect to distract the end of the arab-israeli conflict, to keep the enimity of jews alive so that that sect will live another day, to gather up support and arms to protect itself.

It is all plain to see which sect it is. The minority sect Shia, and headed by none other than the devious apostate infidel leader in Iran - Khameni.

He had openly admitted to funding terrorists - hizbollahs to kill innocent men, women and children,destablised other nations with his agents, build nuclear capability to follow the political protection style of North Korea, supported the butcher of Syria to slaughter more sunnis, heretically preaching end days as now and comming of Mahdi, attempting to create the ends days, and much more.

All these, to ensure he survives, for it will be the leader whom will be removed by force when the time comes. I doubt if he cares for his followers, whom are being punished for his leadership and interferences in other nations today, by an awokened sunni multitude worldwide.

BUT the killings of innocents must end.

Shia - Sunni conflict simmered with the different interpretations over the pond of Qom hardith by the prophet over leadership succession, and full blown after the battle at Karbala during Caliph Yazid's time.

Shia always believed that prophet Muhammad's cousin - Ali, was to be the successor, and tried many arguments to support that thesis. Unfortunately there is no mortal interpretational basis for any successor except for facts. Prophet Muhammad had already long taught that he WAS the LAST Divine messenger. The last prophet and divine teacher sent by Allah. Anyone else is a liar.

There is to be NO MORE divine personage. The prophet - Allah's messenger, had spoken.

At most, Ali was only the selected iman to interpretate as best as he can the Koranic teachings, nothing more. Not of divine appointment in any form. Leadership and teaching are different callings and profession.

Prophet Muhammad left no heir - direct male descendant, or appointed anyone. Such is Allah's will, so that muslims whom had been taught by the prophet to be responsible to themselves and to society, to form an assembly to administer to the needs of society to progress and evolve away from the barbarism that the prophet had freed arabs from.

At the basic level, shias still venerate prophet Muhammad, his teachings and worship Allah. Only the form of worship is different, but then, so too are the many other mainstreams religions in this century such as judaism, catholicism, protestanism, hindusim, etc - the worship of our common Creator, who created us and loved us all, gave us life, known by many names across different cultures, geological barriers, time and space.

We humanity have the right to defend ourselves when attacked by animals or men turned beasts, but we mankind are His children, and no mortal has the right to kill or support the killing, or cause the slaughter of innocent men, women and children - His creations.

May sunnis and shias comprehend this and end the conflict. It is the leaders whom are accountable, NOT the innocents.

There is no need to find any enemy to unite factions. We all are one race and do share common grounds that we all can live in peace despite our differences - shia, sunni, jew, catholic, protestant, hindus, buddhists, white, black, rich, poor, male, female, etc. When we are united upon common grounds, the only TRUE ENEMY of mankind is - ourselves.

We are all flawed beings, and the 7 deadly sins are our greatest individual enemies - pride, greed, lust, anger, gluttony, envy and sloth. But given free will, we do have the capacity to correct our errors to progress and evolve ourselves and our societies, leaving none behind.

What one does, impacts and boomerangs back upon many in many forms, thus we cannot afford to be apathetic to sufferings of others.

T- 25......

The conflict can be seen as dating back to the birth of Islam

The Sunni branch believes that the first four caliphs--Mohammed's successors--rightfully took his place as the leaders of Muslims. They recognize the heirs of the four caliphs as legitimate religious leaders. These heirs ruled continuously in the Arab world until the break-up of the Ottoman Empire following the end of the First World War.

Shiites, in contrast, believe that only the heirs of the fourth caliph, Ali, are the legitimate successors of Mohammed. In 931 the Twelfth Imam disappeared. This was a seminal event in the history of Shiite Muslims. According to R. Scott Appleby, a professor of history at the University of Notre Dame,"Shiite Muslims, who are concentrated in Iran, Iraq, and Lebanon, [believe they] had suffered the loss of divinely guided political leadership" at the time of the Imam's disappearance. Not"until the ascendancy of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini in 1978" did they believe that they had once again begun to live under the authority of a legitimate religious figure.

Link

To be honest, I cannot provide the answers, nor do I think the majority of us could. The people of Islam have to be the ones to determine a solution if there is even one.

Though if I had a suggestion, I would suggest the distancing of religion in every day life like the modern west has done with its mainstream religions to turn the violent conflict into a conflict of words only. But this would be quite a contradiction to how Islam is practiced.

Again, there is so much to this and so much we could not understand, that discussing it like this would not do the issue any justice. Just my opinion.

Well according to the muslims the Shia-Sunni issue will not end until Imam Mahdi appears and unites the Muslims once and for all.

Muslims agree that this is part of Gods plan, this is part of the test and the test is not easy.

The way I see it the Shia seem to be on top of their game, while the sunnites are sleeping in the same bed as the zionists from turkey to saudi arabia, the Shiites have stepped their game and resisted and for that reason they are sanctioned and attacked in the western media. Also the sunnites need to stop car bombing and killing their fellow brothers in Iraq, Pakistan, and Afghanistan.

I personally believe that at the very end it will NOT be Sunni vs Shia, or Muslim vs Christian, or white vs black. it will simply be right vs wrong.

much like how we see christians, jews, muslims unite to support Palestine, the good will unite regardless what sect, race or colour.

When it comes to superstitious hatred, the complete elimination of one side or the other is one way-Think Ghengis Khan here. Easily the greatest conqueror in history, he just exterminated when he ran into problems. I'm not a fan the Ghengis method. But one can not question it's efficacy. Another yet less likely is that whatever side gains the upper hand extends mercy, which does happen on occasion. The fact that we're still, deep inside, the owners of a heart of a lonely hunter with a fight or flight instinct gives me reason for pause on this. The main issue is rearing-age brainwashing. Not from governments in the middle east so much as parents.

Take a child in (area of your naming) feed him hatred of Sunni/Shia (again your choice)...now, all his formative years have dehumanized his 'enemy'. You end up with someone willing to murder because the people he wants to kill aren't actually worthy of life by any of the teachings he (or she) has been exposed to. So, time to cut loose and get rid of the heresy-not in anti-cartoon riot but with specific deaths. And he/she now has earned points with his Allah that will give him access to the Mega Orgy/Frat Party of fun for doing the will of the dogma he killed for (AND USUALLY DIED FOR).

The conflict will end but will never be resolved. Muslims are low in consciousness development and the Earth frequency is rising. They will not be able to reincarnate to Earth any longer and will end up being born on some primitive planet requiring population. Upcoming disasters will eliminate most humans and in about 100 years the remaining low consciousness humans will have died and won't return. End of problem, at least on Earth.

Thanks for all your replies.

I doubt if any have the solution, and neither do the insignificant nobody me.

All we each can do is to bring to the discussion table, our individual perspectives, right or wrong, to share and discuss so that more can be helped to find a solution, and from there to share it with others in the world through our families, relatives and friends that when combined, makes up our world.

The senseless violence of killing each other must end. It has to start somewhere...beginning with you and me, and not dependent upon some fatalistic presumptions. Outside agencies can only help if we first are willing to help ourselves, or any help offered will only be taken for granted, demanded again and again, baby-like, hindering only our own developement to progress and evolve.

hm. Interesting. Through those 1300 years all of europe, asia, etc have all been in conflict with their neighbors as well. So its not like conflict is exclusive to muslims. I would venture another point of view. We all act like its the arabs and the middle east causing problems. Well....they were not largely involved in WWI....or WWII. Since the ends of those wars, the russians have massacred about 30 million people (mostly their own). The chinese? About 50 million (again, mostly their own). And the US? Hard to say. 2-4 mill vietnamese, cambodians and laos a cumulative 1.5-2. Iraq, 1.2 plus the 500k children that reportedly died from our embargos. No figures in yet on afghanistan. I guess you have to include the revolutions we caused, the dictators we put in power since then, and supported, our CIA ops and their effects in south america, and our sanctions on other places like cuba. I'll be conservative, put us at 10 million since the end of WWII. Of course, the U.S.'s killing was all of other people.
Now...in view of all of these, the chinese, the russians, the americans, how bloody have the arab nations really been? Not really that huge when you contrast it with these figures. The arabs are no more warlike than anyone else.

reply to post by pexx421


Let's drop the ever monumental egoistical arab pride born out of inferiority complex, and keep to the topic, which is relevant to what's going on in the middle east right now.

We can talk about Europe, China, Russa, etc on other threads and stretch it to whatever timeline we wish to focus on, even back to when time began, but it will not be relevant to what is happening now nor find the possible solutions to end the current sufferings of innocents in the middle east.

I apologise if I had offended anyone. Truth is often painful, but nevertheless, a reality we have to face if we are to progress and evolve.

Jesus Christ!!!!

Just Sayin'.

um....okay. Not sure i understand your response about the monumental egoistic arab pride bit. I happen to be Italian and Japanese. At any rate, i dont see a bunch of muslim generated chaos when i look at the middle east. I see people who have been trying to define themselves, but are now suffering backlash because that self definition was blocked and re-written by western powers who wanted to radicalize islam for use in the cold war against russia. Now I see al-queda who are supposedly our "enemy" that we are using to overthrow regimes in other arab countries, all with the support of U.S. and other western supplied weapons, tech, and intel.

I see the arabs fighting to maintain independence and safety in a region where we plopped a bunch of western europeans who claim semitic ancestry, and then provided with the 8th largest military in the world. We then help this group of western europeans work towards dominance in a mostly arabic region, in order that we may maintain access to the area's rich natural resources. Which is the same reason we are currently toppling governments in some areas (with our pseudo revolutions) and suppressing revolutions in others (bahrain).

This is not a problem of "Those pesky Arabs just cant live in peace". Its a problem of western intervention. Its the same exact story as Africa and South America, except South America is finally kicking out Western Influence, and look! Many of their countries are starting to prosper and have measurable progress!! Amazing!

The only reason everyone emphasizes the Arab areas conflict, is because it has something we want, and THAT can draw in all of us to a massive calamitous event. Either way, WE are still the problem, not them. The arabs arent going to have a WWIII that can destroy the whole world over thier lands. Thats OUR addition to the equation. There are massacres, wars, and genocides in Africa and Indochina all the time that americans never hear about or care about. Why? Because the worlds greatest resource is not there....except for Libya. OOPS! and look what happened there.

anyway, the point of my posts is that, topics or whatever talking about the arabs inability to get along, or their extreme warlikeness, or what have you are just propagandic crap. They make it look like arabs, muslims, sunni, shia, wahabbi, whatever are different than us. People arent lashing out because the others have a different doctrine. They lash out because they dont feel represented, or they feel repressed. It wasnt that in iraq the sunni ran the govt. It was that they were a very small minority that got to impose its opinion on the rest of the country. Its about repression, which is largely imposed by western support.
I dislike discussions like this, because i often hear ignorant, red-neck americans saying "well, they can never get along because of who they are, theyve been warring for centuries, lets just nuke them all". And this ideology really pisses me off to no end because the US is the most aggressive nation in the world, and has a hand in stirring up or suppressing issues all across the three largest 3rd world areas (and, indeed, most of the rest of the world). Again. The Middle easts problem is not the arabs, or the muslims. Its foreign intervention.
For an example, look at vietnam. As long as we were involved there it was chaos. After we left, sure there was a big blowout....there will always be. Thats the reaction of a society that has been pushed against its own interests for so long. But after that, they came to a state of equilibrium, and are now a peaceful nation with a successful economy.

'Propaganda crap'?

It is high time arabs start looking inwards at themselves instead of blaming the west for everything and anything. Worse are those from the west whom are suffering 'stockholm syndrome', blame everything in the west for the help they had offered to the middle east for the sake of peace and economic stability.

This thread did not came about from out of the blue. It came in response to the recent violence between shias and sunnis in Iraq, afghanistan, syria, pakistan, bahrain, lebanon, indonesia, etc this year alone.

In Iraq, the skirmishes has no end even after US troops left.
In pakistan, it was the pakistan taliban that were targetting shias for slaughter with their bombs.
In bahrain, shia doctors refused to treat sunni soldiers and many other social ills brought up where once they live side by side in peace.
In Syria, the slaughter of sunnis continues. In lebanon, a spillover of the Syrian confict.
In indonesia, rampaging mobs hit at shias.
In Malaysia, Shias are not allowed to proselytize its faith, nor christianity, nor judism, except Sunnism.
In afghanistan, students turn mob and clashed with each other sectarianly but kept underwraps from news by the govt.

None of them have practically ANYTHING TO DO with the west.

No doubt these may seem minor except for Syria, but one precious innocent life lost is one too many, and the trend is showing upward signs. IF we rest of mankind are to remain silent and act now, the trend will only escalate further in time till it is too late to do anything except to watch them carry their vengence worldwide.

This thread has nothing to do with hurting or condemning the arab people, but only a spotlight upon the escalating violence there, in the hope that more be aware, to find SOLUTIONS to end the conflict and sufferings of innocents there.

I most certainly have issues with the persian apostate Khameni and his dogs, but majority of the shias are only innocent followers whom had 'submit' as Islam had taught, but did not realize that they had only submitted to a mortal's twisted will and not Allah's will.

Just because it is a 1,300 years old conflict, does not mean it has the right to continue for another thousand years more. If we can do something to end it with finality, it is a chance our educated generation should do so today so that the next innocent generations be spared.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
What would it take to end the 1300 years of Shia-Sunni Conflict?

This will happen when Jesus comes back and tells them that Mohammad was a false prophet.

Of course then they will start a war because Jesus blasphemed the false prophet.

Failing that or another act of God.. Nothing. It's like the Zionists and non Zionists Jews coming to an agreement. Never gonna happen. Of course there is the possibility that someone will nuke them all back to the stone age.. they would not have far to go.

Another 30 innocent Shias senselessly slaughtered in Iraq today, another 'statistic'. Had innocent human life became so cheap recently?

Where is UN Human Rights Commission? Where is Amnesty International? And other 'human rights' organisations? Do they only act when decisive actions are needed and then hope to blame both sides for human rights violations?

The UN Human Rights Commission is very much respected by all mankind whom faces woes, either socially, economically or politically, for it is only this commission that can help alleviate their sufferings through creating awareness of atrocities on the world stage and secure military, political or financial aid depending on the circumstances.

It is held in higher esteem than the UN Secretariat.

Yet, time and time again, it failed in its mission. It is more reactive than a proactive force - waiting for issues to come to blows before stepping in. But in that time, many innocent humans would have died needlessly.

As a world body, it has the finances and power to conduct investigations to hold persons or state accountable, or force heads of state to investigate to find out the perpetrators of human atrocities, or the heads of states will face condemnation for failing to live up to the requirements of state responsibilities.

Had it done so over the Shia cases? None.

If the management of the UN Human Rights Commission are incapable of stopping wars before they happen, lacking in foresight and efforts, then they should gracefully resign and let another more creative, intelligent and capable to run the agency instead of collecting high wages and shedding crocodile tears 'after the horses had bolted from the stables'.