Reminder of the UK knives and offensive weapons law.

Originally posted by blupblup

You can also get defensive weapons like Kubotans and tactical pens.

Which can be worn on your keyring, keychain etc and bought perfectly legally from UK sites.

You might want to check on that, pretty sure Kunotans are illegal here too. Yes i know you can buy them easy enough, but you can get a machete no questions asked too....having it stuck in your pocket is another matter.

Pretty sure the kubotan is a no no though, as i used to carry one all the time until i got a heads up from a copper, he was cool about it though, when i looked into it i'm sure i saw that they couldn't be carried.

There are ways round that, some people like whittling wood, you'd be amazed at the nice bits of decorative wood you can make that are about 5 inches long for your keyring.

CX.

There appears to be a little confusion around the web on this matter of the legality of kubotans.

Here it says it is illegal to sell them.....so carrying them would be the same....

kubotan (cylindrical container, holding spikes)

Knives: The Law on buying and carrying

Some people say that the above description means that you are ok as long as the kubotan doesn't have spikes, but i think they are reading that wrong. They are reading it as though "if the kubotan holds spikes", it's illegal.

I read it as kubotans are illegal, so are holding spikes....as in a weapon that is a spike that you hold.

All i know is i got told about mine by a copper, and i've only ever carried the flat ended round one.

Very handy though, i have a few of them. You can get the official kubotan training manual for a few quid online, enough vids on them too.

CX.

While our weapon laws are rather restrictive, not all the information presented here is correct. It is very easy to get a shotgun. You have to apply for a certificate, and keep it in a police approved safe, but once you have the certificate, you can own as many shotguns as you like. You can have as many cartridges as you like to. The owner of the gun shop I get most of my stuff from told me the authorities get a bit funny once you have more than 10,000 of them due to the massive amount of heat they would produce in a fire. If you want a rifle, you have to provide a reason for owning it, and have references, and land to use it on. Anybody can buy an air rifle or pistol provided they are over 18.

As for knives, you can carry any knife you like provided you have a valid reason to. For example, when I got fishing I take a 6 inch fillet knife. No problems there, as I have a reason to have it. When I go hunting, I take a lock knife and one of a couple larger knives for gutting/ skinning purposes. Although the shooting is done on private land, so I guess that would be treated differently.

You can also camp on public land. I've camped on Dartmoor and in Plymbridge woods many times. You can have a knife or even an axe with you when you go camping. I wouldn't ever go camping on Dartmoor with a knife. The weather can chabge rapidly and there is every possibility you could have an unplanned extended trip.

reply to post by Vulcha


Last year i went into my local police station, talked to the police officer on the desk about if i could take a small bushcraft knife into the woods so me and the kids could use one. His answer was, a local copper probably would turn a blind eye, however the difficulty lies in if a passer by reports it.

If they got a report of a guy in the woods with a knife and a couple of kids, without doubt you'd have an armed repsonse team there pretty sharpish. He said you'd then have to explain it to the judge, and at the end of the day, if it's not for work, they are pretty strict on what is a decent reason to have one in public.

It's just for you to decide whether it's worth the risk.

As for the shotgun.....don't you need a reason for having one of those too? I didn't think it was as easy as you imply?

Thanks for the info though, always good to hear others experiences.

CX.

ETA: As for camping on public land......you can't in The New Forest....i know that much. Well.....can't get caught put it that way.

Originally posted by Vulcha

As for knives, you can carry any knife you like provided you have a valid reason to.

This is the thing though.....i could guarantee that prepping is not a valid reason to have a knife in public. I see your point, but i posted this topic due to the upcoming preppers programme on tv, i didn't want people to think that preparing for the Apocalypse would be a valid reason for carrying a knife.

CX.

John Major another Tory prat was going to make coins in a bag against the law in case people spun the bag and hit anyone with it, then Tony Blair was going to ban men from wearing socks over 3 days without washing them just in case he decided to remove them in public and use them as gas killers, yes sorry folks the UK law on self defence is stupid, but not many bother thank heavens to listen to stupid laws these days anyway. CB/Drugs etc are being used and they are not legal and millions have those alone in UK.

reply to post by blupblup


Those sticks you mentioned,you can actually make.
Find it,fire harden it and you would be surprised how strong they are.
I challenge people to get 2 sticks the size of a pencil.
Harden one with fire and keep the other one as you found it.

After you made one strong with fire....test them both and you will see the difference.

Now take a stick the size of a jumbo hotdog but 3 feet long and fire harden it.....thats a weapon,and its free and its legal.
Its a walking stick.


Its so easy,even a caveman can do it.

reply to post by Vulcha

That is good, at least it is not as bad as it
sounded.
thanks for the info

The thing is.

We CAN go camping and hiking and such with knives. Police just don't expect anyone to have good reason to be carrying a non-foldable blade on the streets. Unless you can prove the blade is for work (maybe you need a knife for cutting tape while plumbing or maybe for fishing) but you need to prove it.

There are certain knives which are illegal and many of them are flick-knives or concealable blades. Saying that though, the police aren't going to bust you for taking a knife camping, but they'll bust you if they find you with one in the streets. Context.

reply to post by CX

Some people say that the above description means that you are ok as long as the kubotan doesn't have spikes, but i think they are reading that wrong. They are reading it as though "if the kubotan holds spikes", it's illegal.

It is all in the wording "container". If it is solid it is NOT a container, therefore one which does NOT contain spikes is NOT a weapon if the description is cylindrical container. It would be rather difficult to enforce a solid piece of wood or plastic as a weapon. Chopstick, Walking stick etc?

Originally posted by mr-lizard
The thing is.

We CAN go camping and hiking and such with knives. Police just don't expect anyone to have good reason to be carrying a non-foldable blade on the streets. Unless you can prove the blade is for work (maybe you need a knife for cutting tape while plumbing or maybe for fishing) but you need to prove it.

There are certain knives which are illegal and many of them are flick-knives or concealable blades. Saying that though, the police aren't going to bust you for taking a knife camping, but they'll bust you if they find you with one in the streets. Context.

Hi mr-Lizard, cheers for the reply.

Just to say......there is so much umming and arring over this.....so i just phoned Hampshire Police general enquiries, spoke to a lovely lady who said....

Regarding camping or "bushcraft" type stuff in the woods (a public place), anything with a blade over 3in is illegal for the average member of public. Has to be a folder too, non locking. A campsite would be classed as a public place due to the amount of public that also frequent it (even if it is owned by someone).

Fishing: Yep this would be deemed ok as you are doing a specific task with the knife, as long as you only do that specific task with the knife. I asked would doing a specific bushcraft or camping task not make it ok to carry something over 3in....she said no. I said, "Not even for carving bits of wood, cutting stuff for dens and the likes?" She said no.

So i guess it's a case of it's up to you to be sensible enough not to raise an eyebrow with a knife. Has to be pretty task orientated though to get away with it if you are pulled up. So whilst the police may not always bust you for carrying a larger knife camping or in the woods, it is illegal. Just pointing that out to a few people.

Thanks for all the replies anyway, always something to learn....much appreciated.

CX.

Indeed.

The laws are concrete, but ultimately the judgement and discretion of the police officer is the turning point, as I say if a copper finds someone with a knife in the lake district he/she is less likely to nick you than if you had one in your back pocket in London.

reply to post by mr-lizard


Agreed.

CX.

a billiard cue, or computer-duster can be used to cause fear and may be at least as serious as a more obviously dangerous weapon". How could anyone live in a place with such laws in a modern free world.. A modern free society does not need these constraints against their free will.. Like cows waiting for slaughter of the real bad guys with guns.. it is almost sad really. If shtf I would NOT want to be in the UK, all the law abiding citizens are cows waiting for slaughter..www.cps.gov.uk...

Kubatons are legal to purchase, legal to transport between your home, and a place of martial arts training, providing they are stored for transportation in your kitbag, and they MUST be in your kitbag, or you will get nabbed for posession of an offensive weapon. Otherwise they are illegal to carry in public.

Been a martial arts practitioner for a long while, there was a bulletin went out to all our dojo's about the change in the legality of kubatons a few years ago.

But.. Aluminium Maglite mini's with batteries inserted are about the same length, weight, and solidity as an alu kubaton. Since they are a torch (flashlight) they are legal to carry. Just sayin.

reply to post by CX


It's ridiculous, isn't it? Maybe go for a big hike somewhere out the way where people are unlikely to show up? I don't know why, but the majority over here really do look down on weapon ownership of any kind.

With a shotgun, you don't need to give a specific reason to own one, and you don't need a land check. The police have to think of a reason why you can't have one. If you hav land to shoot on, you can say you want the shotgun for shooting pigeons, crows, rabbits, etc. They won't check the land. You need to give a reason to own a rifle. For example, if you wanted a .17hmr to shoot rabbits, or a .308 for deer, you have to have the land you shoot on checked to make sure it's safe to use the guns. If there don't happen to be any deer on said land, you won't get the .308. Basically, the police need to provide a reason for you to not have a shotgun, but you need to provide a reason to own a rifle.

Strangely, you can own a shotgun on a shotgun certificate that holds no more than two cartridges. You can have a shotgun with a non-detachable magazine such a a semi auto, provided the magazine holds two cartridges. If you want a higher capacity magazine, you have to go through the same procedure as a rifle to obtain a firearms certificate. This includes a land check. I don't understand why as the effective range would be the same as that of a shotgun with the lower capacity magazine.

I forgot to add, I thought you could camp in The New Forest? Or are you restricted to specific camp sites?

I would have edited my last post, but my phone won't let me scroll to the bottom of the text for some reason.

Originally posted by Vulcha
I forgot to add, I thought you could camp in The New Forest? Or are you restricted to specific camp sites?

Well i've lived here for 40 years and as far as i have always known, on Forestry Commission land (which is probably now all under the National Parks thingymajig), you couldn't just pitch up in the woods.

Last summer i was discussing the subject of hunting rabbits on public land for eating, just a case of the locals getting a few for the pot. I was talking to the someone very high up in the Forestry Commission about it. He asked if i ever camped out with the kids in the woods, to which i said i didn't think you were allowed. He said that he wouldn't be bothered about it as long as you left the place how you found it, no fires though as we get a lot of issues with people not putting them out properly.

He said that no, officially we aren't allowed to, be he was pretty cool about it.

It may vary in specific parts. It's like a lot of people do the "wild camping" (is that right the right term?), but there are only certain parts it's allowed.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not some stickler for the rules in all cases, like i said earlier, it's against the law to get caught doing it.

CX.

reply to post by CX


I've camped in Forestry Comission woods before. A place called Cann woods. We got caught a couple times and were asked to put out our fire, and another time we all got moved on. There are loads of mountain bile trails in Cann woods. I believe the Forestry Comission don't mind them being there, but accept no liability for any injuries folk sustain. Dartmoor is owned by the National Trust. You're allowed to camp but no fires, etc. Most everyone just digs a pit for their fires, then fill it when they leave. It's a pretty big place so you could probably have a giant bonfire and not get caught!

About carrying knives and things while camping, I always thought camping was a good enough reason. I think I should look in to this. All the laws on weapons here are pretty stupid. I firmly believe if you could own a gun for the reason of home defence, a lot less burglariea and home invasion type crimes would happen. Nobody seems to be fighting for change though.

What about a pointed stick?



I consider the shotgun to be a purely defensive weapon. Now a rifle with a scope, that is an offensive weapon.