Disclosure of the moon landing hoax.

reply to post by masterp


I don't know what figures they had back then. There were several probes, both Russian and American, that took measurements of the belts in the late 1950's.

By the time of the Apollo missions there was substantial amount of knowledge about the radiation belts available.

Using "google scholar" I found 1550 articles on the subject, dating from 1958 > 1968.

Just to give you a feel for the state of knowledge at that time, here are the titles and dates from the first nine articles google scholar found:

Effects of time-dependent electric fields on geomagnetically trapped radiation
CG Fälthammar - Journal of Geophysical Research, 1965 - agu.org

Gyroresonance radiation produced by proton and electron beams in different regions of the magnetosphere
R Gendrin - Journal of Geophysical Research, 1965 - American Geophysical Union

Dynamics of the radiation belts of the earth, ii(Charged particle motion in magnetosphere during magnetic storms in study of Earth radiation belts)
BA Tverskoi - Geomagnetism and Aeronomy, 1964 - csa.com

Interpretation of auroral hiss measured on OGO 2 and at Byrd Station in terms of incoherent Cerenkov radiation TS Jørgensen - Journal of Geophysical Research, 1968 - American Geophysical Union

Quasi-trapped VLF propagation in the outer magnetosphere
RM Thorne, CF Kennel - Journal of Geophysical Research, 1967 - agu.org

The morphology of the electron distribution in the outer radiation zone and near the magnetospheric boundary as observed by Explorer 12
JW Freeman Jr - Journal of Geophysical Research, 1964 - agu.org

Electron fluxes at 1000 kilometers associated with the tail of the magnetosphere
IB McDiarmid, JR Burrows - Journal of Geophysical Research, 1965 - agu.org

Models of the Trapped Radiation Environment. Volume Iii: Electrons at Synchronous Altitudes
JI Vette, AB Lucero, JA Wright - 1967 - DTIC Document

Transfer and acceleration of charged particles in the earth's magnetosphere BA Tverskoy - 1965 - ntrs.nasa.gov

So as you can see, they really were onto it.

Originally posted by DJW001

Please explain to me, in detail, why von Braun's background is relevant to his abilities as an engineer. Besides, what was so bad about the Nazis? Do you really believe all the stories that the evil American government tell about them? After all, if they lied about Apollo, maybe they lied about the Holocaust, right? Well?

I see your end game strategy now. You are sadly trying to escalate this thread and go straight into a Holocaust troll thread.

Do you believe that the United States is secretly allied with space aliens?

No.

All I know is that millions of people can confirm most of the astronauts'stories,

Are you implying that some of the astronaut stories cannot be confirmed by millions of people? Which ones? Sources please.

Werner von Braun was born on March 23, 1912.

After the war, he and some select members of his rocket team were taken to the United States as part of the then-secret Operation Paperclip. Von Braun worked on the United States Army intermediate range ballistic missile (IRBM) program before his group was assimilated by NASA.

Werner von Braun's biographer, Michael J. Neufeld, confirming that Werner's Nazi-SS story seemed "plausible":

Von Braun joined the Allgemeine SS, which was not an armed unit. In 1947, he gave the U.S. War Department this explanation:

"In spring 1940, one SS-Standartenfuehrer (SS-colonel) Mueller from Greifswald, a bigger town in the vicinity of Peenemuende, looked me up in my office ... and told me, that Reichsfuehrer SS Himmler had sent him with the order to urge me to join the SS. I told him I was so busy with my rocket work that I had no time to spare for any political activity. He then told me, that ... the SS would cost me no time at all. I would be awarded the rank of a[n] "Untersturmfuehrer (lieutenant) and it were [sic] a very definite desire of Himmler that I attend his invitation to join.
I asked Mueller to give me some time for reflection. He agreed.
Realizing that the matter was of highly political significance for the relation between the SS and the Army, I called immediately on my military superior ..., Dr. Dornberger. He informed me that the SS had for a long time been trying to get their "finger in the pie" of the rocket work. I asked him what to do. He replied on the spot that if I wanted to continue our mutual work, I had no alternative but to join."
Von Braun joined the organization and was issued membership number 185,068.

Michael J. Neufeld writes:

"As with von Braun's party membership, we have no truly independent account of what happened, but his story is plausible." Source www.worldcat.org...

It's starting to look like "myth building" to me.

What happens if we find that both Carol Rosin and Werner von Braun credibility is on the line? NASA disclosure and probably a NASA meltdown

Originally posted by mrwiffler
reply to post by turbonium1

 

So your rebutal is that the radiation data was fudged and VanAllen was persuaded to lie to support the hoax.

Implicit in this notion is the idea that every expert who has researched, first hand, extra-terrestrial radiation since the late 1960's has been lying. Doesn't make sense.

The data we have now shows quite clearly that the Apollo craft were sufficiently shielded.

OK, here's a question for you turbonium. What is the specific type of radiological phenomena that exists in the VanAllen belts? You don't know off had do you. That's Ok, google it and get back to us.

edit on 16-3-2013 by mrwiffler because: cause

Van Allen's original data was - and still is - valid, accurate data.

But the data revealed a huge problem for any manned moon mission. It had to be 'revised' before Apollo could be 'realistic'. And it was revised to fit in with Apollo.

Van Allen NEVER said the original data was wrong, or inaccurate. What does that tell you, hmm? .

This lie helped to sell the much bigger lie, in essence.

IIt makes perfect sense why they've kept it secret, because it would expose the whole hoax. Why do that?


With time. the truth is slwly coming out. Look at recent reports and you'll know what I mean. .

Why do you think they're spending a fortune to study the VA Belts with probes? Any idea?, , ,

And I'd bet radiation data isn't their only secret,.. but it's a biggie,

Do you think it's a little odd that scientists and engineers have never expressed any doubts on Apollo, at least in public? For over 40 years, not one of them having a shred of doubt?

None of them wonder how a thin aluminum shell could have shielded the Apollo astronauts so well? Even if they know aluminum is a lousy shield for radiation beyond LEO?

They are not stupid. They must know Apollo is hokum, imo.

Originally posted by turbonium1
Do you think it's a little odd that scientists and engineers have never expressed any doubts on Apollo, at least in public? For over 40 years, not one of them having a shred of doubt?

No, it would be odd for one of them to express doubt.

None of them wonder how a thin aluminum shell could have shielded the Apollo astronauts so well?

No, as they know what they are doing, they know engineering and science. Unlike the hoax believers, who have no understanding of engineering or science at all. As you can see from their posts in this thread.

Originally posted by turbonium1
Why do you think they're spending a fortune to study the VA Belts with probes? Any idea?, , ,

Because they eat satellites for one reason. And to learn how they interact with cosmic rays for another. They need to understand space radiation better for long term stays in space, and on other planets.

Originally posted by turbonium1


Do you think it's a little odd that scientists and engineers have never expressed any doubts on Apollo, at least in public? For over 40 years, not one of them having a shred of doubt?

By that logic that means everything that has ever happened, never happened. Nobody expresses doubt that the sky is blue, nobody doubts that water is made of hydrogen and oxygen. Maybe the reason they don't express doubt in it having happened, is because it happened?

The fact that remains for the Apollo believers is 41 years later that no country, no space program, no commercial entity, NOBODY EVER.... has put a living human being outside the Earth Radiation Belts and told about it.

The fact remains is there was only one country, one space program that claimed to do it... it was NASA during the presidential term of Richard Nixon. (I always include Apollo 8 under Nixon because he was president-elect on the launch date.)

The fact is NASA simulated 9 lunar missions, between December 1968-December 1972, that were manned by humans; Please note that NASA did not send monkeys, dogs or turtles first because the American lunar program was a faith-based TV experiment for world propaganda that was very successful. (The Russians sent turtles because they were doing real science.)

So what we are left with is the absurd historical anomaly of Nixon's Apollo program, tv transmissions that could be pre-recorded and retransmitted from space, moon rocks that could have been returned to Earth by robotic exploration and the Apollo films and images that were approved by the Central Intelligence Agency.

Disclosure of the Apollo moon landing hoax is just on the horizon because of the new Race to the Moon. As I stated before, the asteroid threat will be followed by the e.t. threat, according to the Rosin/von Braun disclosure theory.

It's very clear to me that we have entered into the asteroid phase. And if the asteroid phase is anything like the 1. Communist threat phase or the 2. terrorist or 3. rogue nations threat phase, we can surely expect that 4.asteroids will be ramped up and we should see a serious existential threat to the human race by asteroid impact in 1-10 years.

As anyone can see, the Rosin/von Braun disclosure theory has been historically accurate. In a previous post I said it was likely that the Apollo moon landing disclosure probably won't be 100%. Here are some of my thoughts of how the Apollo moon landing disclosure would take place:

1. After Russian, American and International groups have built and launched the Earth Defense Platforms (ostensibly for asteroid defense) these detectors will detect hazardous asteroids AND e.t. on the moon.
2. Some hazardous asteroids will be successfully deflected or destroyed by the defense platforms. In order to make the threat more real, some asteroids will be allowed to hit the Earth and there will be massive destructive incidents.
3. Due to the massive world-wide effort to scan for asteroid threats it will be necessary to build more Earth Defense Platforms ON THE MOON.
4. Et voila. Get it? E.T. voila, alien disclosure.
5. The alien disclosure and the moon landing hoax disclosure will be re-centered around the 1947 Roswell incident, in-effect re-writing the last 60 years of human history in space. This gives America, Russia, China, etc, the plausible excuses (because aliens are an existential threat!) made to explain why the Apollo moon landings had to be simulated. This is also a good time to explain why no humans have ever been reported outside the Earth Radiation Belts in the last 41 years.
6. The extent of the moon landing disclosure probably won't be 100% it will be more like 50% or so. Richard Nixon's historically significant visits to the Communist capitals of Beijing (Feb. 1972) and Moscow (May 1972) fit nicely into the new, post-Apollo narrative. Secret agreements were made to put a 50 year moratorium on human space exploration outside the Earth Radiation Belts because human travel outside the belts was impossible then and now (2013).
7. A secret 50 year program (1972) put in place to send robots to the moon that will dress up up each Apollo landing site like exactly like the CIA photos and films have shown. Each of the 6 Apollo landing sites probably had probably robotic landers with robotic sample return capability. Charles Bolden's statement that they (NASA) are going to turn science fiction into science fact can be interpreted as part of the disclosure effort.

From my perspective this is all plausible because of the man who it was that convinced Kennedy that a lunar landing mission could be done before the end of the decade. Who was that man again?

youtube video "SS Werner Von Braun tricks Hitler & JFK:same rocket show"

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


Well why stop with Apollo? So far, since the start of the space race only three countries have been responsible for all the human space flight, and it was only recently the third one put anyone in space. So for 40+ years only two countries have been responsible for all manned space flight. I call a hoax! There has never been a man in space, even to low earth orbit, it's all a fake.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

 

Well why stop with Apollo? So far, since the start of the space race only three countries have been responsible for all the human space flight, and it was only recently the third one put anyone in space. So for 40+ years only two countries have been responsible for all manned space flight. I call a hoax! There has never been a man in space, even to low earth orbit, it's all a fake.

I don't think the Apollo narrative is a case of hoax/no hoax. I think there are things that were accomplished, in lunar space, in secret, and that a highly effective media propaganda program was created to accomplish Kennedy's goals. But that NASA has not disclosed everything what they did; they have lost the original telemetry tapes; they have 24 MK-Ultra brainwashed astronauts who say they went beyond low earth orbit; they have films and photographs that in every case handled by the Central Intelligence Agency; Richard Nixon's brother, Ed Nixon, a trained geologist himself with a master's degree in geology, hired Farouk El-Baz at Bellcomm to organize & analyze the Lunar Orbiter images which were left in a NASA office, unorganized & largely unalalzyed; Farouk selected the Apollo landing sites; etc, etc, etc, etc.

This is not a matter of hoax/no hoax. Apollo has more to be disclosed.

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


you can declare something as a fact, but that doesn't make it a fact. how do you explain the third party physical evidence of the apollo landings ? is china in on it ? russia ? japan ? larry kaminsky ?

literally everybody is in on it, but you are onto them, you can see through it with your amazing powers of observation ?

that reminds me of something. can't quite put my finger on it

why don't you get a jump on the mars hoax. there are engineers testing space suits in arizona (new mexico maybe) why don't you go see for yourself ? it's like going in a time machine back to the mercury days

reply to post by syrinx high priest


The disclosure of the Apollo moon landing hoax is just a thread. The Rosin/von Braun theory is a credible theory. It's interesting to look at the hypothesis of asteroids.... e.t. ....... what comes next after that?

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

7. A secret 50 year program (1972) put in place to send robots to the moon that will dress up up each Apollo landing site like exactly like the CIA photos and films have shown. Each of the 6 Apollo landing sites probably had probably robotic landers with robotic sample return capability. Charles Bolden's statement that they (NASA) are going to turn science fiction into science fact can be interpreted as part of the disclosure effort.

covering all your bases i see. So i guess the robots they send to the moon are bipedal robots since there were no tracks around apollo 11, 12 and 14 right?

The asteroid threat... has been slowly creeping up on the world psyche... 1994...

Without Warning is an American CBS TV movie, directed by Robert Iscove, featuring veteran news anchor Sander Vanocur and reporter Bree Walker as themselves covering a breaking news story of three meteor fragments crashing into the Earth's northern hemisphere. The film, which premiered on Halloween night, October 31, 1994, is presented as if it were an actual breaking news event, complete with remote reports from reporters. The executive producer was David L. Wolper, who produced a number of mockumentary-style films from the 1960s onward. source en.wikipedia.org...(1994_film)

And of course, Deep Impact from 1998, had much bigger budgets.
en.wikipedia.org...(film)


This is the von Braun asteroid threat I am talking about!

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


Dude you´re way of reasoning is pathetic. You cannot be taken seriously.

You do not answer factual questions and are therefore not a useful member to this discussion.

Man did go to the moon and man covered up what man found on the moon to the point of throwing everyone off by spreading that man did not go to the moon. I was on the fence for a while, I've seen so many videos and read so many posts about fakery and deception, and it's a fascinating subject. Every time i see a full moon I stare at it till my neck gets sore and wonder why all the fuss up there.

Obviously, von Braun is a credible Nazi. He made color propaganda films for Hitler and then he made color propaganda films along with FBI informant Walt Disney.

MAN IN SPACE (1955)
von Braun also began working with Walt Disney and the Disney studios as a technical director, initially for three television films about space exploration. The initial broadcast devoted to space exploration was Man in Space, which first went on air on March 9, 1955, drawing 42 million viewers and unofficially the second-highest rated television show in American history. Source en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

Obviously, von Braun is a credible Nazi.

Given the views you have expressed elsewhere. I should have thought you would admire him for that.

He made color propaganda films for Hitler

Your source does not say that.

and then he made color propaganda films along with FBI informant Walt Disney.

Gasp! Not Walt Disney! That evil anti-American Communist!

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

 

Obviously, von Braun is a credible Nazi.

Given the views you have expressed elsewhere. I should have thought you would admire him for that.

He made color propaganda films for Hitler

Your source does not say that.

and then he made color propaganda films along with FBI informant Walt Disney.

Gasp! Not Walt Disney! That evil anti-American Communist!

Actually, there isn't anyone in the Apollo program who is worthy of my admiration. Please read back to page 11 of this thread where I sourced the von Braun/Hitler color movie anecdote. It's from von Braun's wikipedia page. You should read it some time.
Walt Disney is "evil anti-American Communist"? That's new information for me. I always thought he was the "evil anti-Communist American" type.

Here's a fun fact - I know that you will agree with me. NASA can't put a man on the moon by 1969 without the help of the Nazi rocket men/war criminals such as Werner von Braun and Arthur Rudolph. Why was America not able to produce a rocket man of the same caliber as these two men?


It's embarrassing to the Apollo believers to have these Nazi's, OSS/CIA agents floating around the mythology and the Egyptian-born geologist who was hired by President Nixon's little brother involved with the landings on the moon.

The Apollo believers I think are trapped by their own facts.... Trapped by the time window of Dec '68 to Dec '72.... Trapped by the Nazi's who controlled the development and marketing of the massive rockets.... Trapped by the claims of scientific precision that no other space fairing organization can duplicate or demonstrate in the last 43 years. Believers are trapped by the Apollo 8 Genesis Bible reading TV brainwashing experiments that were conducted, rather conspicuously, on a Western religious holiday of Christ's birthday. There is certainly nothing scientific about that.

Come one, come all, bow down to the TV GOD.

reply to post by turbonium1

Van Allen's original data was - and still is - valid, accurate data.

Can you please supply some references for this statement. Without any reference it is just feeble rhetoric.

And sayonarajupiter, can you please explain what the hell you are going on about? Von Braun was a Nazi. We know that. Simply, what is your point?