Fully man, Fully god? One soul or two many!

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posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 09:41 PM
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The idea that Jesus pbuh is fully god and fully man gives rise to some curious questions..
>what part was man? & what part God?
>body as human and soul of God? Then nobody died
>soul of man and a soul of God? Two souls? It would be similar to God possessing Jesus pbuh the man and leaving when the man died on the cross.
>a complicated hybrid man-god soul?
.
Thoughts...?
(it would be appreciated if opinions are mentioned rather than theology, i know the theology and dont agree with it, but ya verses may be quoted to support an opinion and please keep it related to the topic)
edit on 25-11-2012 by logical7 because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 09:59 PM
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One might just as well ask, was Abraham and Isaac one and the same?
Of course not. Yet these prefigured the sacrifice of GOD and his son Jesus who
was given as the replacement of Adam, a perfect man.

What is the sacrifice about? Many people do not even understand what it even meant.
They just go on and on saying Jesus died for my sins not really understanding why Jesus
being killed at the behest of a bunch of Sanhedrin Pharisees at the hand of the Roman Empire
had to do with them personally.

It had to do with a question brought up twice before by Satan. He accused GOD before all creation
that people would not be truly loyal to him unless he blessed them. He accused GOD of needing bribery
to get people to love and obey him as the Heavenly Father.
He accused man the second time of cursing GOD to his face were he to take away His Blessings.
That we would only worship GOD if our free will were taken away and we acted as automatons.

Well Jesus had free will. He could have chosen not to be faithful to GOD even to his death.
He could have at any time acted in defiance and had a thousand angels come to his aid and slay the
people there and save himself from harm.
But, he humbly allowed himself to be sacrificed as proof before GOD and man and Satan and the fallen angels that Satan is a liar. That a man, he Jesus would show faith and love and obediance to GOD even in the face
of trials.
This erased the burden and accusation placed upon us due to Adam and Eve's failure to do so.

What might have been the fate of mankind had Jesus failed in his test?



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 10:10 PM
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Originally posted by PaperbackWriter
One might just as well ask, was Abraham and Isaac one and the same?
Of course not. Yet these prefigured the sacrifice of GOD and his son Jesus who
was given as the replacement of Adam, a perfect man.

What is the sacrifice about? Many people do not even understand what it even meant.
They just go on and on saying Jesus died for my sins not really understanding why Jesus
being killed at the behest of a bunch of Sanhedrin Pharisees at the hand of the Roman Empire
had to do with them personally.

It had to do with a question brought up twice before by Satan. He accused GOD before all creation
that people would not be truly loyal to him unless he blessed them. He accused GOD of needing bribery
to get people to love and obey him as the Heavenly Father.
He accused man the second time of cursing GOD to his face were he to take away His Blessings.
That we would only worship GOD if our free will were taken away and we acted as automatons.

Well Jesus had free will. He could have chosen not to be faithful to GOD even to his death.
He could have at any time acted in defiance and had a thousand angels come to his aid and slay the
people there and save himself from harm.
But, he humbly allowed himself to be sacrificed as proof before GOD and man and Satan and the fallen angels that Satan is a liar. That a man, he Jesus would show faith and love and obediance to GOD even in the face
of trials.
This erased the burden and accusation placed upon us due to Adam and Eve's failure to do so.

What might have been the fate of mankind had Jesus failed in his test?


ya Jesus passed the test. But how that automatically promotes everyone to Heaven? Are we worthy? Have we proved ourselves? Or we dont have free will to humble ourselves or be arrogant like the satan?
By the way you should tell your opinion about what was said in OP. Abraham, Isaac pbut were humans with one soul each. That doesnt compare to what i asked in OP.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 10:16 PM
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Everything we witness in our life, our 'reality' can be best described by an analogy. NOT LOGIC. The analogy is that everything we witness, is a reflection of god's will. Now i hesitate to use the label GOD, i prefer higher power, becuase it seems more accurate to me.

Jesus was just like you and me. A human being. Would you agree with me that there are some humans born on this world with an innate ability such as being a child genius? Of course there is. Jesus was merely a spiritual genius. To date, there have been more just like jesus, but they did not make as great an impact.

Truth is, we all can find the higher power by looking within ourselves. Jesus lived his life by his spiritual compass within his heart, just as we all have. He was merely a savant, a genius, a prodigy, the ONE, and was able to see it clearer than anyone else.

To say Jesus was 'god' is kind of silly. We are all reflections of the will of the higher power. Our lives are at the mercy of his will, as he writes the stories that we witness as our lives. I believe life is nothing more than a lesson in which our soul is shaped and molded through truthful experiences. I say truthful because it determines whether or not you learn. To 'know', is to experience truth. When we face every moment of this life with our consciousness focused on our internal compass, we will surely feel great pain and great pleasure, but ultimately we LEARN AND GROW.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by chadderson
 


i agree with your philosophy, we are images of God. His creation. and we have a personal responsibility to LEARN AND GROW not one person finding the truth and somehow making it sufficient for all by dying. it should be logically and analogically true.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by logical7

Originally posted by PaperbackWriter
One might just as well ask, was Abraham and Isaac one and the same?
Of course not. Yet these prefigured the sacrifice of GOD and his son Jesus who
was given as the replacement of Adam, a perfect man.

What is the sacrifice about? Many people do not even understand what it even meant.
They just go on and on saying Jesus died for my sins not really understanding why Jesus
being killed at the behest of a bunch of Sanhedrin Pharisees at the hand of the Roman Empire
had to do with them personally.

It had to do with a question brought up twice before by Satan. He accused GOD before all creation
that people would not be truly loyal to him unless he blessed them. He accused GOD of needing bribery
to get people to love and obey him as the Heavenly Father.
He accused man the second time of cursing GOD to his face were he to take away His Blessings.
That we would only worship GOD if our free will were taken away and we acted as automatons.

Well Jesus had free will. He could have chosen not to be faithful to GOD even to his death.
He could have at any time acted in defiance and had a thousand angels come to his aid and slay the
people there and save himself from harm.
But, he humbly allowed himself to be sacrificed as proof before GOD and man and Satan and the fallen angels that Satan is a liar. That a man, he Jesus would show faith and love and obediance to GOD even in the face
of trials.
This erased the burden and accusation placed upon us due to Adam and Eve's failure to do so.

What might have been the fate of mankind had Jesus failed in his test?


ya Jesus passed the test. But how that automatically promotes everyone to Heaven? Are we worthy? Have we proved ourselves? Or we dont have free will to humble ourselves or be arrogant like the satan?
By the way you should tell your opinion about what was said in OP. Abraham, Isaac pbut were humans with one soul each. That doesnt compare to what i asked in OP.


It doesn't automatically promote you to anywhere. What it allows you to do is use your free will to choose either GOD or Satan as your master. You live your life day to day in the ways of one or the other.
That is your choice.
You have simply had the case laid out for you in the Book of the Law of the situation you were born into.
What fate you receive upon resurrection day or none for you, is consequences to your choices.
But, GOD has made clear that this situation as it stands is settled as regards HIS reputation.
It will not go on this way forever. When the appointed times come, then the settling of accounts will end Satan's rule over the Earth.
Oh yes, Satan is still the ruler of the Earth, because many have chosen this, or in particular the seats of power
want it that way. But, it will be brought to an end. I have faith that this will not go on forever.

About the souls? Jesus has a soul distinct from GOD. He is not part man, part GOD.
He did however have a life in heaven before it too was sacrificed in order to be born a man.
Because the test had to be a first born son, Jesus = to a first born son, Adam. Both without a blemish on their record to start with.
He had a choice. Adam had a choice. We all have a choice. That is the point.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by PaperbackWriter
 


One can not choose 'god or satan' becuase satan is a reflection of god. Polarity, duality, and the nature of opposites, is within creation and therefore a reflection of gods will.

Satan is nothing more than another label for 'down' and not 'up', another name for 'bad', or 'evil'.

Free will is an illusion, but our awareness is not. What we are aware of is what we allow ourselves to absorb, if it is truth it is just.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by PaperbackWriter

Originally posted by logical7

Originally posted by PaperbackWriter
One might just as well ask, was Abraham and Isaac one and the same?
Of course not. Yet these prefigured the sacrifice of GOD and his son Jesus who
was given as the replacement of Adam, a perfect man.

What is the sacrifice about? Many people do not even understand what it even meant.
They just go on and on saying Jesus died for my sins not really understanding why Jesus
being killed at the behest of a bunch of Sanhedrin Pharisees at the hand of the Roman Empire
had to do with them personally.

It had to do with a question brought up twice before by Satan. He accused GOD before all creation
that people would not be truly loyal to him unless he blessed them. He accused GOD of needing bribery
to get people to love and obey him as the Heavenly Father.
He accused man the second time of cursing GOD to his face were he to take away His Blessings.
That we would only worship GOD if our free will were taken away and we acted as automatons.

Well Jesus had free will. He could have chosen not to be faithful to GOD even to his death.
He could have at any time acted in defiance and had a thousand angels come to his aid and slay the
people there and save himself from harm.
But, he humbly allowed himself to be sacrificed as proof before GOD and man and Satan and the fallen angels that Satan is a liar. That a man, he Jesus would show faith and love and obediance to GOD even in the face
of trials.
This erased the burden and accusation placed upon us due to Adam and Eve's failure to do so.

What might have been the fate of mankind had Jesus failed in his test?


ya Jesus passed the test. But how that automatically promotes everyone to Heaven? Are we worthy? Have we proved ourselves? Or we dont have free will to humble ourselves or be arrogant like the satan?
By the way you should tell your opinion about what was said in OP. Abraham, Isaac pbut were humans with one soul each. That doesnt compare to what i asked in OP.


It doesn't automatically promote you to anywhere. What it allows you to do is use your free will to choose either GOD or Satan as your master. You live your life day to day in the ways of one or the other.
That is your choice.
You have simply had the case laid out for you in the Book of the Law of the situation you were born into.
What fate you receive upon resurrection day or none for you, is consequences to your choices.
But, GOD has made clear that this situation as it stands is settled as regards HIS reputation.
It will not go on this way forever. When the appointed times come, then the settling of accounts will end Satan's rule over the Earth.
Oh yes, Satan is still the ruler of the Earth, because many have chosen this, or in particular the seats of power
want it that way. But, it will be brought to an end. I have faith that this will not go on forever.

About the souls? Jesus has a soul distinct from GOD. He is not part man, part GOD.
He did however have a life in heaven before it too was sacrificed in order to be born a man.
Because the test had to be a first born son, Jesus = to a first born son, Adam. Both without a blemish on their record to start with.
He had a choice. Adam had a choice. We all have a choice. That is the point.

if you say that Jesus pbuh showed us the way to do it, i agree with you, giving up to the will of God. but if you mean that he did, so that we dont have to, then i differ. and about he having a life in heaven? as soul? or a form of man like he would later become after being born? that gives me another question, when did he actually came into existence? at birth? or God was always trinity?????



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 


Read Collasians: 1:15-16. It clearly states that God created Jusus as his first creation. According to the Bible God is the alpha and omega. Therefore, he has no beginning and no end. If he created Jesus, which according to the Bible itself he did, how can Jesus be God, which has no beginning and no end. The Bible damns the people's belief that he is God by stating that he is a creation of God.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by chadderson
reply to post by PaperbackWriter
 


One can not choose 'god or satan' becuase satan is a reflection of god. Polarity, duality, and the nature of opposites, is within creation and therefore a reflection of gods will.

Satan is nothing more than another label for 'down' and not 'up', another name for 'bad', or 'evil'.

Free will is an illusion, but our awareness is not. What we are aware of is what we allow ourselves to absorb, if it is truth it is just.

i would disagree, satan is not polar opposite of God, satan is mere a creation and has power because God is letting him be for an appointed time, satan is just to set balance between good and evil, so that the man can choose the side with free will..



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 10:48 PM
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reply to post by chadderson
 


You'll not be surprised that I disagree with your assessment of equating Satan with "down", "dark" or some other polar opposite.
Satan was not created to be evil. This is something he chose to be.
No more than any child is born to be evil or bad. They grow and make their own choices. It is the choices which were always there as part of the duality.

It was not assigned to him, but a role he took on because first it crossed his mind. Then he thought about it some more. Then he talked himself into an act of disobedience and defiance.
It was put into actions. Once one was done, then He chose that way more and more until HE made himself, the first deceiver, and lover of what is bad, hurtful and wrong.
But, he being a supernatural being and not a mere human, what was the first thing he wanted to do afterwards?
Why he wanted some company. He wanted others to join him and sought to deceive other angels and men to
join the dark side. He thought there would be safety in numbers. He thought it would add legitamacy to his way
if he became a ruler of the thoughts and actions of so many.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 10:49 PM
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Originally posted by NysgjerrigDame
reply to post by logical7
 


Read Collasians: 1:15-16. It clearly states that God created Jusus as his first creation. According to the Bible God is the alpha and omega. Therefore, he has no beginning and no end. If he created Jesus, which according to the Bible itself he did, how can Jesus be God, which has no beginning and no end. The Bible damns the people's belief that he is God by stating that he is a creation of God.
thank you! my point is the same. a creation cant be God.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 


I never said Satan was the polar opposite to god. I stated satan was a reflection of god, part of his creation.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by PaperbackWriter
 


Satan is 'supernatural' because he is a direction. He is the down to the up. He is the negative to the positive. God created DUALITY and with this creation he made GOOD AND EVIL, which some people define as jesus and satan. Satan is merely one half of reality.

DUALITY = two opposite sides that when put together equal 1. Take a circle and bisect it. You have two sides, which you can define as you wish.
edit on 25-11-2012 by chadderson because: (no reason given)
edit on 25-11-2012 by chadderson because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 


You seem to be setting up a straw man argument.
Satan is not a GOD, but a false god to some. He is not GOD's equal he is indeed merely a creation.
He is not merely set up to illustrate a point.
There never had to be this introduction of evil into our lives and into our world.
But, the POSSIBILITY of it has always existed, because the free will to choose it is always there.
No one had for untold millenia upon millenia of untold time chosen this before Satan did and
he did so in connection with our little corner of creation.

If the option to disobey GOD were not always there, then there is no free will, at all.



edit on 25-11-2012 by PaperbackWriter because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by PaperbackWriter
reply to post by logical7
 


You seem to be setting up a straw man argument.
Satan is not a GOD, but a false god to some. He is not GOD's equal he is indeed merely a creation.
He is not merely set up to illustrate a point.
There never had to be this introduction of evil into our lives and into our world.
But, the POSSIBILITY of it because the free will to choose it is always there.
No one had for untold millenia upon millenia of untold time chosen this before Satan did and
he did so in connection with our little corner of creation.

If the option to disobey GOD were not always there, then there is no free will, at all.




thats what i said dint i??



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 11:08 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 


No, that is not what I understood you to say.
Your claim seemed to be that Satan was created so that he represented this option.

The option existed but had no adherents for countless eons of time.
It had no personification.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 11:08 PM
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and please keep it on topic, satan is not the topic, the nature of Jesus pbuh is...



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 11:12 PM
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We could all take notes from Jesus. He died for us in the sense that his action is felt 2000 years later. Does it really matter if he existed or not? no. The fact is the story tells innate truths and does a great job doing it. On the other side of the spectrum, to interpret it all logically would be a poor decision, as a MAN wrote the book, and man can make mistakes.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 11:13 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 


What is pbuh?

I have stated my understanding already. Jesus was a separate creation.
He was born fully man. But he was a direct creation of GOD in the manner of Adam.





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