Prophecy being Fulfilled before your Eyes - Egypt in Chaos under a Cruel Master

Originally posted by Ismail
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Yup. And others did'nt.

Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call his name Immanuel.

(the translation of virgin is very liberal, the hebrew word actually means young women).

I can spout mumbu-jumbo all day, and some of it will get right. Some of it will get wrong. That's not divine, it's just statistics.

That prophecy of Isaiah did come true because Immanuel means "God with us" which is who Jesus is: Yahveh Tsidkenu. Mumbo-jumbo doesn't come true. The mark of a true prophet is whatever they foretell comes true 100%, the mark of a false prophet is, if they get even 1 prophecy wrong, then it's all wrong and theyre false prophets.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


No, that is interpretation. Immanuel was a existing hebrew name, and it still is an existing hebrew name : Emmanuel. I know what it means. But it's still a real name.

It's like me prophetizing that christ will be called Robert, and when it turns out he isn't, you saying I was right because Robert means "glorious and illustrious".

Isaiah said that Christ would be called Immanuel. He was'nt. He was called Jesus.

Prophetic fail.

reply to post by Ismail


Matthew 1:20-25

20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

reply to post by Deetermined


Sorry but I don't quite see what you're getting at with that lengthly quote.
Care to elaborate ?

reply to post by Ismail


Let me break that down by verse in simple terms...

Verse #

20. An angel of the Lord (Gabriel) came to Joseph to tell him to take Mary as his wife...
21. That his wife, Mary, would then have a son and he would be named Jesus...
22. That this event would fulfill the prophecy spoken of by the prophet (Isaiah)...
23. The angel repeats the prophecy of Isaiah and specifies that the name Emmanuel means "God with us"...
24. Joseph did what he was told and married Mary and took her as his wife...
25. Joseph did not have sexual relations with Mary until after Jesus was born.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Let us pray and live the Law of Love until our Master comes in Great Glory and Power to judge the living and the dead,

Come, Lord Jesus!

reply to post by Deetermined


Thanks for your efforts, I'm sorry, you misunderstood my question. I did'nt need a translation, I wanted an explanation.

I mean this seems believable to you ?

So a "prophet", quoted from the book of Isaiah which according to scholars was written over a span of at least 300 years by different people, is in turn quoted in a book by an author who never actually specifically names himself "Matthew" during the whole gospel, but is still called the Gospel, of Matthew. This anonymous guy, writing nearly half a century after Jesus's death, says that an "angel" came down to Jesuses long deceased father, and said that to fullfill the prophecy that everyone was waiting for, (which was the virgin birth a child specifically named Immanuel), to instead call this guy Jesus because Immanuel means God is among us ?

I mean, are you serious ? Really ?

I'll tell you what it sounds like to me. It sounds to me like someone had something to sell long after Jesus died. If, as I proposed, "Isaiah" had prophetized that the messiah would be called Bob, then I'm sure that "Matthew" would have told us that "Gabriel" said "Call him Jesus, because that fulfills the prophecy, since Bob means "glorious and illustrious". Half of the hebrew names in the dictionnary could fit that part. How about Abeel ("God is my Father"). How about Abishua ("My father is deliverence"). How about Amiel ("God of my people"). Come on, I'm not even out of the A's there...

I don't understand. Why do you choose to trust and even find sense in texts that have been so revised, so translated and so changed over the course of the centuries ? How can you possibly believe that you are reading original content, and not just, at best, hebrew legends revisited by the early church to justify it's existence with self-fulfilling prophecies that were tailored to be correct, because they were written about events that had already happened ?

I have another question for you. Do you consider "Daniel" to be a "real" prophet ?

Originally posted by Ismail

So a "prophet", quoted from the book of Isaiah which according to scholars was written over a span of at least 300 years by different people, is in turn quoted in a book by an author who never actually specifically names himself "Matthew" during the whole gospel, but is still called the Gospel, of Matthew. This anonymous guy, writing nearly half a century after Jesus's death, says that an "angel" came down to Jesuses long deceased father, and said that to fullfill the prophecy that everyone was waiting for, (which was the virgin birth a child specifically named Immanuel), to instead call this guy Jesus because Immanuel means God is among us ?

Why do you think most of the stories and events of Matthew, Mark, Luke & John are all repeated? Are you telling me that you think all of these books must have been written by the same author?

Here's what Jesus told his disciples.

John 14:26

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Here's another Isaiah verse for you.

Isaiah 9:6

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

I don't understand. Why do you choose to trust and even find sense in texts that have been so revised, so translated and so changed over the course of the centuries ? How can you possibly believe that you are reading original content, and not just, at best, hebrew legends revisited by the early church to justify it's existence with self-fulfilling prophecies that were tailored to be correct, because they were written about events that had already happened ?

It all boils down to the power of the Holy Spirit. It either resonates with you or it doesn't. If for any reason I were to find out that everything written in the Bible were "Hebrew legends", it wouldn't matter, based on my own personal experiences with God.

I have another question for you. Do you consider "Daniel" to be a "real" prophet ?

Yes.

Matthew 24:14-16 (Quotes from Jesus)

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

reply to post by Ismail

Half of the hebrew names in the dictionnary could fit that part. How about Abeel ("God is my Father"). How about Abishua ("My father is deliverence"). How about Amiel ("God of my people"). Come on, I'm not even out of the A's there...

This guys got a point.

Take for example, Ishmael.
Like Mary, his mother was also told what to name the boy by an angel. His name means "God hears"... it doesn't mean Ishmael is actually God who hears, does it?

Immanuel means "God is with us", but NOT in the sense that Immanuel himself is God.

reply to post by Deetermined


If Daniel is a "real" prophet, they how did he get so much wrong ?

No, I don't think the gospels have the same author. I think some of them have many different authors, and that they most certainly were not written by the people you believe wrote them. As I said, how do you know Matthew wrote the gospel of Matthew ? Not once does the author actually identify himself, and modern scholars (the majority, the ones who have nothing to do with nutty evangelists) estimate the book to have been written around the first century. And that's just Matthew.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Yes that's nice and all, but since this was written after the "events", then again it's a self fulfilling prophecy. "Hey I just wrote a text that I'll say is contemporary to Jesus, and in that text, I'll say that Jesus says my text is cool." Do you see how frikkin' easy this is ? You are quoting the book itself as a justification of the books veracity. Pardon me, but that makes no sense at all. In fact it's quite frightening that anyone could possibly be so gullible as to believe that.

Look, I grew up in a religious family, and I know what faith is, and what "gods love" feels like. It's great and warm and cozy and thrilling. But it's not true. You think it's coming from something that isn't you, but it's you, it's all you and only you. It's exactly the same thing as having an imaginary friend, but never growing out of it. The power of the "holy spirit" is a self-perpetuated hallucination, which allows you to feel less weak and less alone.

If you have truly gone so far into your self-induced hallucination that you justify the existence of the hallucination by refering to the hallucinations of others, and you are no longer capable of understanding why that is absurd, then I'm sorry, but your brain isn't working properly. I don't mean that in a nasty way. I mean that in a preoccupied way. You should be able to understand how absurd what you are saying sounds.

Originally posted by Ismail
reply to post by Deetermined

 

If Daniel is a "real" prophet, they how did he get so much wrong ?

No, I don't think the gospels have the same author. I think some of them have many different authors, and that they most certainly were not written by the people you believe wrote them. As I said, how do you know Matthew wrote the gospel of Matthew ? Not once does the author actually identify himself, and modern scholars (the majority, the ones who have nothing to do with nutty evangelists) estimate the book to have been written around the first century. And that's just Matthew.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Yes that's nice and all, but since this was written after the "events", then again it's a self fulfilling prophecy. "Hey I just wrote a text that I'll say is contemporary to Jesus, and in that text, I'll say that Jesus says my text is cool." Do you see how frikkin' easy this is ? You are quoting the book itself as a justification of the books veracity. Pardon me, but that makes no sense at all. In fact it's quite frightening that anyone could possibly be so gullible as to believe that.

Look, I grew up in a religious family, and I know what faith is, and what "gods love" feels like. It's great and warm and cozy and thrilling. But it's not true. You think it's coming from something that isn't you, but it's you, it's all you and only you. It's exactly the same thing as having an imaginary friend, but never growing out of it. The power of the "holy spirit" is a self-perpetuated hallucination, which allows you to feel less weak and less alone.

If you have truly gone so far into your self-induced hallucination that you justify the existence of the hallucination by refering to the hallucinations of others, and you are no longer capable of understanding why that is absurd, then I'm sorry, but your brain isn't working properly. I don't mean that in a nasty way. I mean that in a preoccupied way. You should be able to understand how absurd what you are saying sounds.

You never received the holy spirit.

reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob


More like I realized it was all in my head. And when I realized it was all in my head, it all went away. What a strange coïncidence...
And how does one "receive the holy spirit" ? With a hammer ? Does brain trauma chase away all those nasty questions ? If receiving the holy spirit means blindly believing anything a 2000 year old book tells me, then yeah, I did't get it. Your holy spirit sounds like a lobotomy.
"I never received the holy spirit"...
That's a good one. You people have gone so far into denial it's just frightening.
You don't even understand what a rational approach to anything is anymore... No wonder the world is in such a mess.

Originally posted by Ismail
reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob

 

More like I realized it was all in my head. And when I realized it was all in my head, it all went away. What a strange coïncidence...
"I never received the holy spirit"...
That's a good one. You people have gone so far into denial it's just frightening.
You don't even understand what a rational approach to anything is anymore...

You had no faith.

reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob


I did have faith. I just realized that faith was akin to stupidity. Because instead of encouraging you to ask questions, it encourages you to not ask questions for fear of questioning your faith. Which is also called being a moron.

If god loves me, why does he want me to be a moron ?

Originally posted by Ismail
reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob

 

I did have faith. I just realized that faith was akin to stupidity. Because instead of encouraging you to ask questions, it encourages you to not ask questions for fear of questioning your faith. Which is also called being a moron.

If god loves me, why does he want me to be a moron ?

edit on 30-11-2012 by Ismail because: (no reason given)

How do you conclude that a faithful christian does not ask questions?

The questions that I ask actually build my faith instead of tearing it down, maybe that is because I do have faith as small as a mustard seed and I have received the holy spirit.

For you the following is true:

"'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'"

Originally posted by Ismail
reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob

 

If god loves me, why does he want me to be a moron ?

edit on 30-11-2012 by Ismail because: (no reason given)

Not a moron, but certainly more childlike.

And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob


You might want to elaborate on that one before someone takes it out of context.

reply to post by Ismail


So, tell me Ismail, have all of your questions been answered to the degree that you're totally fulfilled with what you've learned through your studies? What have you learned? What is the truth to you?

Which, by the way, I'm another one who has asked many questions and studied many religions, but they don't replace my own personal experiences with God. No, it's not in my head and I don't make it happen. Most of my prayers are spent on other people. They get answered. I have no control over that.

reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob


Let me get this right. You are saying that GOD, an all powerfull all knowing being who created the universe, inspired one book, a book that is so historically incorrect, so filled with scientific errors, so morally offensive in parts, that most people with brains automatically dismiss it, but in your mind, I am supposed to read that quote FROM this same erroneus book, which basically tells me that I need to be stupid to understand, and you expect me to accept that as an argument ?

This guy says that he is the son of god, but he also says that only if you are as credulous and unquestionning as a child will you be able to believe him (like yeah, we agree Jesus) and you present this as an argument ? Do you understand how crazy that is ? "Jesus says be stupid or else you won't be able to believe in me" and you say OK ?

Are you µ^$%& crazy ?

Originally posted by Ismail
reply to post by ConspiracyNutjob

 

Let me get this right. You are saying that GOD, an all powerfull all knowing being who created the universe, inspired one book, a book that is so historically incorrect, so filled with scientific errors, so morally offensive in parts, that most people with brains automatically dismiss it, but in your mind, I am supposed to read that quote FROM this same erroneus book, which basically tells me that I need to be stupid to understand, and you expect me to accept that as an argument ?

This guy says that he is the son of god, but he also says that only if you are as credulous and unquestionning as a child will you be able to believe him (like yeah, we agree Jesus) and you present this as an argument ? Do you understand how crazy that is ? "Jesus says be stupid or else you won't be able to believe in me" and you say OK ?

Are you µ^$%& crazy ?

On the contrary, children are extremely inquisitive.

Believe me, I have three children. An eight year old daugther and two sons, one six and the other four years of age. They do not presume to know all of the answers themselves unlike most adults (myself included).