Where did all the jobs go?

Originally posted by Quauhtli
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

Your jump at the chance to call people on unemployment saps discredits everything that you say. Try adding something with substance next time if you are going to participate.

It is lucky for you that you have gained all of these skills. There is something to be said for those who take the time to learn how to work in multiple fields instead of specializing, especially in these times. There is still something more to be said for those who learn to be self sufficient. But your lack of empathy for those who have not had the luxury of having been raised by these standards shows your lack of skill in yet other equally important aspects of life and community. You may yet have to depend on these folks one day to survive and blasting them down now does nothing to further your own further success.

Your funny. And your not getting it. I was not lucky to have gained skills. I needed to know something so I learned it. It really takes very little time to learn most of those skills I listed. There is simply no excuse except for laziness. I did not have any luxury of having been raised with any standards related to skills - your wrong again. If I can do these things, so can anyone else. There is nothing special in learning these skills and they don't cost tons of money to learn, - even air conditioning and heating which can easily pay 30 dollars an hour.

In less than the time it takes to get your 26 weeks worth of unemployment, I can show someone how to make money and have a skill they will never lose and can always use. In fact, they can make money while learning this skill and never need to go on unemployment. People can do this But they don't. Lazy saps, yeah, I'm sticking to that. You can't prove me other wise by showing me a small unemployment rate.

The jobs still exist they are just existing in other countries now.

The UK and US governments were content to let the manufacturing jobs get sucked abroad in the last 3 decades so that corporate profits are maximised.

In the UK in particular they were happy to let the production jobs go in favour of economic miracle of 'the city'. Unfortunately now we know the city miracle was bull# but the manufacturing is still gone, and wont come back.

Thats why there are such problems with inflating welfare costs in the western world. Globalisation equalises wages for work that can be done anywhere. As we wont let western living standards fall to indian slum wages, but we wont stop the jobs leaving through import tariffs, the government is picking up the difference and borrowing to pay for it.

I dont see any scenario now where the jobs are coming back.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


Maybe I don't get it. I think that there is a hierarchy built into the American work force. It differs from place to place, but exists none the less. When the lower rungs of the work force are saturated it makes it difficult for those who need to trickle back down to do so. When those lower rungs are occupied by people of a different language or culture it becomes even more difficult, and when the people down there are living off of a standard that could not support you even if you wanted it to then it ceases to even be an option. You live in a place where the people doing all those jobs you talk about are people that you can understand and communicate with. If it was not that way, you would not be able to use those trades as a way to pay the bills. Many people have put years of hard work into gaining the tools they need to be productive members of society, only to find out that there is nowhere to use those tools, or that someone else is putting them to use in different way. The American dream has become a dead end road for millions of youth. Working as a landscaper is not an option for them because it doesn't pay enough to cover the student loans. I think that if you were one of these students graduating after six years and 100,000 in the hole, you might be singing a different tune.

The nature vs nurture aguement doesn't hold water in a debate about jobs. People, no matter how much they weigh just want to have the tools to exploit their own skills in a way that benefits them. Each and every person on welfare is embarrassed on some level. You are lucky that your environment supplies you with the work and tools that you need to be successful, but for others it is not the same. You might find yourself being dependent upon the system if you ever found yourself just one place removed from where you are now.

I have never had even the slightest problem finding work and I've lived in all corners of the U.S. I have even been fortunate enough to have jobs that are well paying, challenging and very satisfying. I moved out on my own when I was sixteen and did not even graduate high school, now I work in solar. I count myself one of the luckiest ones. Not for a second would I ever think that I did this all on my own merit. I owe I all to the folks who took the time to instill in me the ideas that I could reach for the stars, and the ethics that I would later need to make myself important to my employers. I feel for the ones that have not been blessed with the same tools as myself. Even if they have been given opportunities that I have not and wasted them. Most of the time I think that they were just doing what they were thought was right. The place is place is mired in quick sand. Any one of us may get stuck in it from time to time.

Originally posted by staple
I agree that if you look at a certain sector you will see job loss. But someone designed those robots and had to manufacture them. Eventually they had to be installed by humans.
Computers.. Internet... I think if someone pulls the numbers the information age easily outpaces the car manufacturing industry. Intel with it's 80k workforce outnumbers ford at 20k employees.... Not to mention Nvidia, Google and even the biggest player Microsoft.



Off topic. The pic you produce is Ford making Rolls Royce engines in Britain.

edit on 11/25/2012 by staple because: (no reason given)

Yes but, those software jobs and robot manufacturing was done offshore also. What if they do have 80,000 employees in a country with a billion people? Once they have their robots, then what? It's a market subject to
saturation like any other.

The jobs went there so that the Chinese and Taiwanese to a lesser extent had something other than a family.
To me, it seems they wanted to not have 500 million men who had no hope of wives or families so they give
them trinkets instead. A better paying job for them to buy stuff. If not, then they see that as a hugely destabilizing influence.

The people here have their trinkets for the moment and are not at risk to upset the status quo.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

ou give me ANY able bodied person and I can get them work and a skill ASAP. Any takers?

Right here Johnny for cripe sakes help me out this rut stud. I believe what you say so put me to work any way any where you can. i'm unemployed able bodied and ready to go not now but right now. Been an Iron worker and a glazier and things have gotten so rough I'm without wheels but not without resources.

I'm a taker, I'll be you're huckleberry.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

ou give me ANY able bodied person and I can get them work and a skill ASAP. Any takers?

Right here Johnny for cripe sakes help me out this rut stud. I believe what you say so put me to work any way any where you can. i'm unemployed able bodied and ready to go not now but right now. Been an Iron worker and a glazier and things have gotten so rough I'm without wheels but not without resources.

I'm a taker, I'll be you're huckleberry.

O.k. I see where you came from now answer the questions - What are you willing to do? What are you Not willing to do? Think trades, manual labor to start. Make a list on a sheet of paper with each column divided down the middle. Pick 5 or 10 of the things you are willing to do and then find out the best, fastest, cheapest way to learn them. Willing to take a pay cut as say from iron work to begin with for a few months, you may have to. If Home Depo has the free lessons on the skills you want to learn go and take some classes. You can find lessons on the internet to learn almost anything you can imagine. Practice for a week or two in your own house. Once you believe you can do the job start making calls. Tell them you have just learned a new skill and want experience and are willing to work in a starting position for a fair price. Warm bodies that are not lazy are all most people are looking for. If you choose to do something like small home repairs you can start doing this right away by yourself. Go to friends and neighbors houses, family and see where you can fix things for them and offer your services. Many things like painting are cheap and easy to do, which includes cleaning rust off of things, sanding them down, repainting with rust resistance paint. Fixing holes in walls with sheet rock mud is fast and easy to learn. Of course there is always grass cutting...

Construction for small jobs/repairs is great because it has many skills. You were an iron worker, I bet you could use a brazing torch ( oxygen acetylene or propane) to braze copper and silver solver - plumbing like in installing water heaters or bathroom sink installs where you use plastic fittings bought off the shelf and calking down the sink - even installing the counter top is not that hard to learn.

It's not hard at all to get back to work once you find what you are willing to do. Get 3 or 4 guys who can do the same and start a small company. The work will always be there, I know - because things always need to get done. That's the main thing. People no matter how bad the economy is will always pay someone a fair price to do things because they need stuff cleaned,repaired, repainted etc. If you simply take a look around your world you will see tons of potential jobs you can land.

In this day when people are charging 60 or more an hour for simple jobs people don't want to pay. Offer your services at rock bottom prices. I charge 20 dollars an hour to do things most people charge 60 for and I get plenty of work doing all kinds of things. Elderly and people on a fixed income will love you. It really is that simple IF your willing to work and spend some time learning something.

I don't know how much iron workers make an hour but if your not willing to start small and put 20 an hour in your pocket then that will be your biggest hurdle to get over. You may refuse to do other jobs because you got used to making 60 an hour. I ask the question, whats better.. taking a cut in pay to pay your bills and feed your family or not work at all? Only you can answer that.

These ideas are designed to get you working quickly. It does not cover more advanced things that are surprisingly easy like kitchen cabinet install or laying tile or tiling a counter top. ( which home depo can also teach you) In fact, home depo sells a book that can teach you all these and more - every skill they know. This book covers the a to z on home repair. they have many like this one: www.amazon.com... It's a gold mine.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


At this point, I'm willing to put anything in my pocket but I'll have to do some sewing first.
Good thing I know how.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

At this point, I'm willing to put anything in my pocket but I'll have to do some sewing first.

Good thing I know how.

In light of my post did I pass your muster? Do you think if you followed my steps it would work for you?

Basically.. my premise was that Americans can find work and learn a new skill to do that work if they wanted to without having to rely on government assistance. How would you grade my ideas on this?

In my mind this type of work is what America was built on and this type of work can save us at least individually for ourselves and our families.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


Lets just say I have found work the way you described. But it doesn't suffice. It never seems to be enough. To place an add for work on Craig's list the asses want money. What's the difference placing an add to sell or to work ?

It seems like the way things are working, though scary on the surface, are best for everyone.

The jobs that get lost to automation and other countries are good for America.

In the past, a factory worker was able to earn a living that allowed him to have a family, own a house, buy a boat and still enjoy life. That time has come and gone. It was only possible to live that way because WW2 had destroyed all the production capabilities of the "civilized" world; America was the only game in town. We had a monopoly and could afford to pay people the wages they got and still produce cheap goods for America and the rest of the world.

Unfortunately, life like that is an anachronism. It was time to get back to the way things usually are; a "ruling class" and a population of underpaid slaves.

Lucky for the Americans they found a better way. The manufacturing was moved to other countries, programs like "no child left behind" helped raise some people above needing to work unskilled labor, and the hated socialist "entitlement" programs helped provide for people who were sacrificed to progress, and the SAVINGS WERE PASSED ON TO YOU! You can still buy a Blu-ray player for $20 on Black Friday instead of paying the $500 you might have to pay if companies had to pay a $10 minimum wage and benefits.

Now it totally sucks if you were the one sacrificed, but it'd probably suck more for many more people if you weren't. Thanks for taking one for the team. At least you get a free meal and hopefully a place to stay courtesy of every one else. Imagine if we got rid of those programs and everyone was out on the streets.

I don't have a degree in economics or history and I don't even "know" all that much, but this is how I see it. Chances are I'm wrong