Homicide By Domestic Violence Close To Home

Recently someone close to home was killed, allegedly, from domestic violence.

That's all I can say legally right now. I will not give any more details, I just want to discuss this ongoing problem in society right now.

This woman who is a relation to my household, whom I knew for nearly 20 years now, was killed. She had been in an abusive relationship for many many years. It was a pattern she could not escape from. Alcohol played a major role too.

Everyone in her life watched it go on for years. They all told her to leave him. She swore she would, she did, and he kept coming back. She just began accepting this as her life. There was no escaping, and the law was useless in protecting her.

Now comes all the, "what if we did this? What if we said that?" second guessing regrets.
There's nothing that can be done now, all there is now is pain and sorrow. Her children have to live on with this memory forever, the visual memory alone will devastate them for decades.

I want to ask the female members here..... Why do you stay with these kind of men?

Why do you keep letting them back into your lives?
Why do you feel you deserve this kind of treatment?

For the male members here who have assaulted their women......
What is your mental damage son, seriously?

The law does not protect women sufficiently when it comes to domestic violence here in the states. It's actually a joke. In my personal viewing experience, pressing charges on your boyfriend only enrages him more, and when he gets out on bail, the pain will be far worse. There's nothing the police can do until you press charges again, and a judge finally decides to hold them without bail. The woman is usually beaten to a pulp by then.

When will this sick mental infection finally end?

That's all I wanted to relay tonight.
Thanks for your time.

The best answer I can give is that when I was in this kind of realtionship, I was in a completely alternate frame of mind from who I really am.
I look back and think about where my head was at and I can't reconcile the thoughts that person had with who I am now.

Some one once told me that it was because I was in survival mode. My rational brain had gone dormant out of perceived necessity. That makes sense to me.

I have been out of the situation for nearly 10 years now, and there is no way I would ever allow any one to treat me like that again so I have analyzed and over analyzed every early warning sign he ever displayed. Never again!

He messed with my mind in a way that I can't explain, but I can tell you that is where the issue lies.

Abusive men have a way of convincing you your family doesn't really care about you, your friends are no good, and they make you mistrust everyone but them.

There was nothing any one could have done, until I was ready. There is nothing anyone can do for a woman who isn't ready.
Some women wake up out of that stupor or fog (yes that is what it is) fairly quickly, others it takes a very longtime,and unfortunately for many they never get a chance. I hope I have been able to help a little.

reply to post by calstorm


You're definitely the real deal. You described what others have told me exactly the same.

What about the mentality that WANTS to be assaulted? I do know of several women who are not satisfied until they've had their beating for the night. They push and push their men to the point of physical assault. Sometimes to the point of broken bones and hospital stays.

To me it seems there are at least 2 types of domestic assault victims. Those who got it out of nowhere and it just kept coming, and those who want and need it to satisfy some psychological relief system. Kind of like a Stockholm syndrome desire.

Domestic violence isn’t just against women. Women also assault men in the same fashion. Perhaps not in such high numbers, but that is also an issue. I don’t like it when these things are missed. Violence against women is unacceptable, though violence against men is fine? Because they’re bigger and can take it? Bullsh!t. I wholeheartedly detest violence against women. However, I also loathe violence against men as well. It doesn’t have to be physical. Psychological can be just as bad, if not worse. I just wanted to say that first. Seems to be ignored when the domestic violence issue is raised.

Short of taking the law into your own hands, there wasn’t much more you could have done. Restraining orders often don’t work - not many people go to jail for violating them unless they’re already on parole or probation. If your relative refused to go to the police then I don’t think anything could have really happened on that front. If she wasn’t prepared to have him charged for assault then how could the police intervene in a big way? If she tried to run from him and he continually tracked her down then I don’t think any degree of talking and pleading would have changed his behaviour. That’s just the person he is. And, may sound harsh but unfortunately your relative didn’t do enough to protect herself. I know it would have been an incredibly difficult situation to be in, but there are things one can do to end it. None of those things is pretty but when you’re basically fighting for your life and freedom you should do everything you can to eliminate the danger.

The only practical thing that could have been done is if she struck first, with a weapon, to end it and his life. But then she probably would be in a bus off to jail or face a lengthy court battle to prove self defence. Or if one of you or one of her friends took matters into your/their own hands. Not necessarily to kill him. Just enough to have him leave of his own accord. Perhaps, make it so his legs don’t work no more? I know none of that is politically correct but drastic situations call for drastic measures. It’s better an alcoholic, abusive, sickening, weak “man” dead then a totally innocent woman.

I offer my condolences for your loss. It’s a terribly sad situation.

reply to post by BlindBastards

I also loathe violence against men as well. It doesn’t have to be physical. Psychological can be just as bad, if not worse. I just wanted to say that first. Seems to be ignored when the domestic violence issue is raised.

It's ok, I'm a member. I couldn't agree more. Been there, lost the t-shirt.

If she wasn’t prepared to have him charged for assault then how could the police intervene in a big way? If she tried to run from him and he continually tracked her down then I don’t think any degree of talking and pleading would have changed his behaviour. That’s just the person he is. And, may sound harsh but unfortunately your relative didn’t do enough to protect herself.

She tried. She had an active restraining order against him. She also couldn't just pack up and leave town, her whole life was there, her family and children who lived with her, there was no running away. The restraining order was useless. When you make the call, they leave.

The only practical thing that could have been done is if she struck first, with a weapon, to end it and his life. But then she probably would be in a bus off to jail or face a lengthy court battle to prove self defence.

Yep. There was sufficient cause to arm herself, and to use lethal force. It had been documented on police records, a long history of domestic violence. The state she lived in has pretty strict gun laws though, and it would have been really hard for her to get a handgun permit/license, though she could have with some inside help.

I appreciate your condolences and your perspective. I happen to agree with you on many levels.

So sorry to hear of your loss.
I sincerely hope her abuser is tried and convicted.
Accountability is the next important step.

I will provide my perspective, as you asked.
From the female:

We aren't thinking rationally first of all.
We stay because we don't see any other way out. The only escape seems by death, one of us.
We think we are worthless, useless and horrible because this has been drilled into our heads repeatedly from verbal abuse which often goes hand in hand with the battery. ' Nobody else will ever want me, he said so'.
We might feel we deserve it because we behaved so badly, even if we know deep down we did nothing wrong. 'I won't misbehave next time and this won't happen again'
We still love him
We don't want to burden others by seeking help.
We are embarrassed, humiliated and don't want to admit this is happening.
We are scared if we leave he will kill. Kill me, kill my family. 'He said so. I know he means it.'
We stupidly always think, or wish or dream he will change.

He never changes and can in fact evolve into a more dangerous person.

reply to post by calstorm


You explained that really well. It's the truth.

Originally posted by JibbyJedi
reply to post by calstorm

 

You're definitely the real deal. You described what others have told me exactly the same.

What about the mentality that WANTS to be assaulted? I do know of several women who are not satisfied until they've had their beating for the night. They push and push their men to the point of physical assault. Sometimes to the point of broken bones and hospital stays.

To me it seems there are at least 2 types of domestic assault victims. Those who got it out of nowhere and it just kept coming, and those who want and need it to satisfy some psychological relief system. Kind of like a Stockholm syndrome desire.

I can't relate to the second type although he definitely had a way of making me feel like I deserved it, and frequently accused me of deliberately pushing him to that point. Truth was I walked on egg shells constantly around him.

I have to agree with you that psychological abuse is worse. It's the psychological abuse that gets you there after the physical starts.

Hey Jibby,

If your location didn't say New Hampshire I would be wondering if you were in the same neck of the woods as myself. I couldn't have spelled out what happened to a long time friend last week if I tried. Her Funeral will be next Saturday. I find myself asking the very same questions. The anger is building in me over this whole situation so I am going to cut it short but I will say I am sorry for your loss.

Originally posted by JibbyJedi
reply to post by calstorm

 

You're definitely the real deal. You described what others have told me exactly the same.

What about the mentality that WANTS to be assaulted? I do know of several women who are not satisfied until they've had their beating for the night. They push and push their men to the point of physical assault. Sometimes to the point of broken bones and hospital stays.

To me it seems there are at least 2 types of domestic assault victims. Those who got it out of nowhere and it just kept coming, and those who want and need it to satisfy some psychological relief system. Kind of like a Stockholm syndrome desire.

I would like to respond to this.

There's is a bit of an element of Stockholm syndrome going on, as in staying with ones captor. It can at times imitate being held hostage.

I don't know of any battered woman who liked being beaten.
You saying that is giving me flashbacks of my abusive husband saying " you provoke it, you want this to happen". No I did not!
Please do not say this because this is not the majority of cases. It lessens the seriousness of it.
It's not the message I would want to get out.
The message is we don't deserve this, we don't like it.
Why would I want my head smashed in?

reply to post by violet


Thanks for your perspective. I think this is good testimony so far. An inside look into the mentality behind the mystery. I'm trying to help the cause and all of this helps.

We think we are worthless, useless and horrible because this has been drilled into our heads repeatedly from verbal abuse which often goes hand in hand with the battery. ' Nobody else will ever want me, he said so'.

This is the part I don't understand.
Unless this came directly from your parents at a young age, I don't get it.

I've been emotionally and mentally abused in relationships, but if someone told me, "Nobody else will ever want you!"... The 1st thing I'd think would be, how could you possibly know that as a fact?

Then I'd start laughing out loud. I think I am awesome personally, that delusional belief came from me, not my parents. I like me because I'm unique, no one is just like me in this world, or in this galaxy. There might be another whacked out Jedi wannabe in another galaxy, far far away, but here I'm boss of my world. That's how everyone should feel in my opinion.

These "men" do not know their ass from their elbow, literally sometimes, there's nothing they can say that should effect how a woman feels about herself. But in this ridiculous society, women are made to feel inferior from cradle to grave, so that kind of verbal assault actually works.

This is a sad time we live in in many ways.

reply to post by violet

I don't know of any battered woman who liked being beaten. You saying that is giving me flashbacks of my abusive husband saying " you provoke it, you want this to happen". No I did not!
Please do not say this because this is not the majority of cases. It lessens the seriousness of it.

I apologize if I gave you that impression. This is NOT the majority of cases.
I do know of a few where this does seem to be the case though.

I worked in the field of psychology and mental/physical abuse for a long time. I've seen cases in my personal life and in my professional life that have shaken me. Some of the most surreal were the ones where the victim desired the abuse, and at many times brought it on.

This is not the majority. This does occur though. I have a hard time understanding it myself and have tried to bestow advice, but most advice is interpreted as criticism by the victim and all helpful input is blocked out from that point by these victims.

Provoked attacks are a serious problem in domestic violence cases. Many times the abuser just has an anger management problem and isn't an intentional abuser.

Originally posted by JibbyJedi
reply to post by violet

 

Thanks for your perspective. I think this is good testimony so far. An inside look into the mentality behind the mystery. I'm trying to help the cause and all of this helps.

We think we are worthless, useless and horrible because this has been drilled into our heads repeatedly from verbal abuse which often goes hand in hand with the battery. ' Nobody else will ever want me, he said so'.

This is the part I don't understand.
Unless this came directly from your parents at a young age, I don't get it.

I've been emotionally and mentally abused in relationships, but if someone told me, "Nobody else will ever want you!"... The 1st thing I'd think would be, how could you possibly know that as a fact?

Then I'd start laughing out loud. I think I am awesome personally, that delusional belief came from me, not my parents. I like me because I'm unique, no one is just like me in this world, or in this galaxy. There might be another whacked out Jedi wannabe in another galaxy, far far away, but here I'm boss of my world. That's how everyone should feel in my opinion.

These "men" do not know their ass from their elbow, literally sometimes, there's nothing they can say that should effect how a woman feels about herself. But in this ridiculous society, women are made to feel inferior from cradle to grave, so that kind of verbal assault actually works.

This is a sad time we live in in many ways.

I understand how you don't get it. Perhaps you are a stronger person and this stuff can just bounce off you. It never absorbs.

Age may be a factor.

It's like the other poster said, and they are manipulative and can slowly over time convince you of these things.
Again I say no matter how much deep down you feel these things aren't true, you begin to believe it.

Any growth or positive influences you attempt to grasp are always so quickly swatted away, by another nasty comment or action. So you can never really develop into a better more positive and stronger person.

I can't really explain it. Imagine a piece of paper and you keep punching holes into it. Eventually there is nothing left. You are reduced to nothing, hence the worthless feelings.

Originally posted by Agarta
Hey Jibby,

If your location didn't say New Hampshire I would be wondering if you were in the same neck of the woods as myself. I couldn't have spelled out what happened to a long time friend last week if I tried. Her Funeral will be next Saturday. I find myself asking the very same questions. The anger is building in me over this whole situation so I am going to cut it short but I will say I am sorry for your loss.

I'm in southern NH. Close enough to laugh at the Mass.holes who can't buy guns this easily and are paying 2X as much for cigarettes. I guess that's an inside joke for this area. I'm 5 mins over the MA/NH border.

I am sorry for that loss and funeral that proceeds it.

I really can't say it much better than this CGI puppet...

reply to post by JibbyJedi


That's ok.
I don't understand it from that perspective.
I only understand my own experiences and have found they are very similar to others, as far as that worthless feeling goes.

reply to post by violet

Age may be a factor.

It's like the other poster said, and they are manipulative and can slowly over time convince you of these things.
Again I say no matter how much deep down you feel these things aren't true, you begin to believe it.

Any growth or positive influences you attempt to grasp are always so quickly swatted away, by another nasty comment or action. So you can never really develop into a better more positive and stronger person.

I can't really explain it. Imagine a piece of paper and you keep punching holes into it. Eventually there is nothing left. You are reduced to nothing, hence the worthless feelings.

I feel like I've brought out feelings that have a deep impact on many here, I am sorry for that.
I am trying to educate myself and others about this problem. I'm also intentionally bringing up past repressed memories in many folks who are trying to move past these events.

I believe all your pain and suffering should not go to waste. Your experiences can help others.
And it will.

I can immerse myself mentally into your positions at the time, but I'll never really know what it was like. I have my perspective and immunity to such manipulative comments, but not everyone is like me.

I want nothing more than to change the world tonight. I would want nothing more than for all of this continuing abuse to end right here and now. The least I can hope for is for your input and perspectives to help others. Good advice and help is all I can ask for.

I am so very sorry for your loss. Many years ago when I first started dating, I tried to choose wisely. Any guy that so much as hinted to physical or mental abuse ended in a heartbeat. If they were overly possesive or raised a hand like they were going to hit, even if they didn't hit me, the signs were there.

One thing I have seen with other women is that they think the man will change. The guy overwhelmes her with apologies and flowers and dinners and gifts and boom all is forgiven and they think he will never do it again. WRONG!

I used to have a landlord that beat his wife and they had two small kids. I tried many times to help this woman, gave her self esteem pep talks, gave her the number to a women's shelter that specifically dealt with abused women etc. She stayed with the jerk! That was many years ago and to this day I wonder if she is still alive.

reply to post by JibbyJedi


I was briefly married to my first husband, just long enough for him to be sperm donor for my two beautiful children. When I was 9 months pregnant with my youngest he hit me. I grabbed a cue stick off the pool table and beat him until he was unconscious. Amazingly he stuck around, but as soon as I had my 6 weeks check up after giving birth and my doctor said I could go back to work I packed all of his stuff while he was gone and set it all out by the road. While I was packing I had my dad come over and put new deadbolt locks on the doors. I filed for divorce first thing the next day.

Having been happily married to my second husband for 21 years, who adopted the girls and never abused any of us in any way, I can't understand why a woman would want to spend her life with a man who abuses her. My dad always told me if a man ever raised hiss hand to me even once that he wasn't worthy of me and didn't truly love me. I took my dad at his word and never looked back!

Maybe these women have "sick puppy" syndrome; they believe that their love can change these men, nursing them back to health. Or maybe they believe their abusers brainwashing and that they deserve the abuse somehow. All we can do is hope that one day they wake up and realize that they are worth MORE and that nobody deserves to be abused- EVER!!!

Originally posted by violet
So sorry to hear of your loss.
I sincerely hope her abuser is tried and convicted.
Accountability is the next important step.

I will provide my perspective, as you asked.
From the female:

We aren't thinking rationally first of all.
We stay because we don't see any other way out. The only escape seems by death, one of us.
We think we are worthless, useless and horrible because this has been drilled into our heads repeatedly from verbal abuse which often goes hand in hand with the battery. ' Nobody else will ever want me, he said so'.
We might feel we deserve it because we behaved so badly, even if we know deep down we did nothing wrong. 'I won't misbehave next time and this won't happen again'
We still love him
We don't want to burden others by seeking help.
We are embarrassed, humiliated and don't want to admit this is happening.
We are scared if we leave he will kill. Kill me, kill my family. 'He said so. I know he means it.'
We stupidly always think, or wish or dream he will change.

He never changes and can in fact evolve into a more dangerous person.

I couldn't have said better words myself. I spent 15 years in a horribly abusive marriage. Believe it or not, it was ATS that brought me out of it and the support of members here that got me my life back. Been a good life ever since.

reply to post by JibbyJedi


I am a woman, who has been blessed to not have endured a physically abusive relationship. I have some experience with abuse overall however, and have had a number of friends caught in the domestic violence nightmare.

They often stay because of a deep and core lack of self-worth, giving themselves the relationship that they (perhaps subconsiously) feel they deserve. It is very very sad.