the Universe of Predators - Humanoids vs Reptilians vs Insects.

Originally posted by Druscilla

Originally posted by metalholic

reptiles,birds,amphibians are all fish aswell as mammals because mammals came from reptiles who came from fish. Also the other animals besides the plants you mentioned are mammal.

If you want to take that further, you could just say we're all just complex colony organisms of bacteria.

Even further we're all just a chemical soup, highly organized mud ... with pants.

Of course that could go further, but, my point, the spirit of my post was, what's with the Reptoid, Insectoid, Mammal thing when (since this is all pie in the sky speculation without any actual real Empirical Evidence) there's so many many other different options?

Why limit?

There could be aliens like The Thing, The Blob, or anything and everything else imagined inside and out of Science Fiction literature and cinema, all totally making whole new Domains on down under the taxonomic scale of Life, Domain, Kingdom, Phylum, Class etc ...

Then, there's also machine intelligence from the ever scary Hegemonizing Replicating Swarm scenarios to Autobots and Decepticons, and then even the somewhat altruistic god-like intelligence of Ship Minds described by Iain M. Banks in his Culture series novels.

Self guided evolutionary machine intelligence could very well be a classification of "life".
Machine intelligence could even effectively be of such sophistication and autonomy that it's indistinguishable from naturally evolved Biological life.

As far as speculation goes, if there's other life, I suspect there's a very strong argument for machine intelligence holding majority population in the universe.

Look at it this way: We develop artificial Intelligence, and while doing so, develop the means to download ourselves into machines, back and forth between biology and machine so whenever we grow old or get injured, sick, etc, we could occupy a synthetic body until we eventually could afford or grow a biological replacement.
Our AIs could in essence to the same.
Eventually Millions of years from now, conditions on this planet become too hostile to support biological life.
By some quirk, faster than light space travel is found to be impossible, so, the only way to really travel is in synthetic form.
Thus, we could occupy machine bodies. Thus, any possible alien intelligence could be floating around inside synthetic bodies, virtual realities, and/or any other way to store a personality or even an entire planetary culture.

Some may even prefer the durability and staying power over the biological option and stick to staying synthetic; adapting a whole new culture that over hundreds of millions of years could be machine longer than they were biological, if ever they were.

Machines, for such reasons are likely a higher probability than any other biological solution.

edit on 24-11-2012 by Druscilla because: (no reason given)

Well done! I'm impressed. Of course once in another form and with the right communication you could be sitting in a star ship whilst remotely operating an intel gathering cat, either biological or otherwise. In effect you could be in two places at once.

All cats are alien spys! Rofl.

Have you read Anne MacCaffrey's brain ship series? Very good read especially considering when it was written.

P

reply to post by pheonix358


so deceptive. my kitties love me though

reply to post by pheonix358


I haven't read that.

Cats:


Me lurv some kittehs.

reply to post by Druscilla


I like your cat.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


Not my cat. Stole that from 4chan, and don't know the source to give proper credit. I thought it appropriate regarding previous statement of cats being alien spies.

It entirely possible that we wont meet any species because:

a) Only predators evolve the intelligence necessary for tool use.
b) Of those only a sub set are social creatures that develop societies necessary for development of technology.
c) At some point their rate of increase of technological destructive potential outruns their ability to manage their own darker natures.

The galaxy may be full of pre-technology biological life on one hand and extinct technological civilisations on the other.

We may be a fire that burns only briefly, like a great many others before us.

Originally posted by justwokeup
It entirely possible that we wont meet any species because:

a) Only predators evolve the intelligence necessary for tool use.
b) Of those only a sub set are social creatures that develop societies necessary for development of technology.
c) At some point their rate of increase of technological destructive potential outruns their ability to manage their own darker natures.

The galaxy may be full of pre-technology biological life on one hand and extinct technological civilisations on the other.

We may be a fire that burns only briefly, like a great many others before us.

a) is only an assumption.
b) Is an extrapolation of a) and is therefore based on an assumption.
c) Is an assumption that all societies must have darker natures and is baced on a) and b)

Have you considered that we may be the exception rather than the rule. Unfortunately humans are an egotistical bunch and we tend to measure ourselves from the very top of a triangle.

It is equally possible that all of the dead civilizations were all predators and all the thriving space faring civilizations were not.

P

Originally posted by pheonix358

Originally posted by justwokeup
It entirely possible that we wont meet any species because:

a) Only predators evolve the intelligence necessary for tool use.
b) Of those only a sub set are social creatures that develop societies necessary for development of technology.
c) At some point their rate of increase of technological destructive potential outruns their ability to manage their own darker natures.

The galaxy may be full of pre-technology biological life on one hand and extinct technological civilisations on the other.

We may be a fire that burns only briefly, like a great many others before us.

a) is only an assumption.
b) Is an extrapolation of a) and is therefore based on an assumption.
c) Is an assumption that all societies must have darker natures and is baced on a) and b)

Have you considered that we may be the exception rather than the rule. Unfortunately humans are an egotistical bunch and we tend to measure ourselves from the very top of a triangle.

It is equally possible that all of the dead civilizations were all predators and all the thriving space faring civilizations were not.

P

Your hypothesis is just as valid as mine.

Although, given the size and age of the universe where is the evidence of all these thriving peaceful space faring civilisations? Where is everybody?

Given what my approach says about our likely prospects i'd prefer to be wrong.

In the end the question will be answered but likely we will both be long dead by then.

reply to post by justwokeup


If you were a peace loving race full of goodness and love and all things nice, would you really want to meet us?

What the hell for! Why! I would drop some cloaked cameras and televise us as a reality show. Probably show it classrooms as a 'These are not your friend, don't talk to these strangers.'

There are likely to be intergalactic police signs saying "Danger, detour around next solar system. Extremely deadly and arrogant species."

P

reply to post by justwokeup


... and we boil down to Drake vs. Fermi.

All we really have, on top of the same old arguments, including my stance on machine intelligence (another old argument), is this endless speculation based only on what we can imagine, or whatever we think we know about ourselves (all earth animal life included) projected onto some imaginary other culture.

I suspect when/if we ever do encounter an alien species/culture, technological or no, they'll be entirely alien such we'll have a difficult time relating, communicating, and finding anything in common.

For all we know, such an imagined alien culture could take fanatical stock in 'unique-ness' such that finding common ground might even be extremely offensive where attention to differences makes for friendlies.

Originally posted by rollsthepaul
Humanoids are by far the form of choice in the universe. Humanoids develop ten times faster than insectoids and seven times faster than reptilians. Even though TPTB have formed some relationships with reptilians, these will pass when TPTB cease to be the controlling force on the planet.
Our contact with aliens will be humanoids to begin with, which includes Greys. There really are STS and STO beings but our initial contacts will be STO, unlike the STS relationship TPTB have with reptilians currently. We can safely say that when TSHTF next year and beyond, we will only be seeing STO. Humans will have lots to deal with and we will discover that the STO are really here to help because that is who they are. There are lots of ways to approach this subject and I have made my decision. Try to find peace in whatever you decide.
Between Jan-June 1, 2013, there will be a global coastal water event that will likely be caused by the breakage of the Pacific tectonic plate. Coastal water inundation will be up to 200 miles and will therefore affect most humans on the planet personally. It appears that the event will cover multiple months, in the said period. Internet access will be gone by May 2013. For most of us, death will be the first symptom. I believe we must go through this great trial and the harvest of souls, will be immense.
Many who follow the many events leading up to our great world changes, will harbor fear and this is unfortunate. Whatever happens we need to meet the situation head on and keep our heads because many will be losing theirs. We will likely be short on those providing solutions to our dilemma. Mental preparation is the best prepping of all. Try some.

You tell your story like it's fact. It isn't. And god only knows what you are going on about.

True, we are limited to what we can conceive.

David Brin has an interesting take on the whole Fermi/Drake thing on the book 'Existence'. Its not a fantastic novel but it does contain some interesting ideas about our human future and the bigger universal picture that are unsettlingly plausible.

I'd recommend it on that basis.

Yeah...I can smell a hint of Xenomorphobia here.

So whats wrong with Insects, dont like they 6 legs and antenna? Jealous they can run faster and fly too?

And Reptoids...dont like their skin? whats wrong with the colour of their skin? Aint you ever seen a green/grey/yellow/black/silver creature before?

They gots rights too you know....especially them Dinosaurs descendants, after all, they was here b4 humans!!!!

Shizzle my dizzley wizzle mizzle insecto/repy-izzle....

Settle down now Rasta!!

The idea and questions you raise have been explored in many a science fiction book. Typically we find that at least in fiction humans are best able to exploit the inherent weaknesses of other species and win the day after suffering a bit along the learning curve.

reply to post by Druscilla


Hey Druscilla...you've described Daleks, come to think of it...even Cybermen. (the originals from outer space, not the new series ones made on Earth).

Lucky we are building genetically modified Bio/Robot soldiers to conquer the Universe....????

What??????

Hostile aliens could be the balancing weight and reintroduce us into the kingdom of the animal again. But the animal is to be avoided i forget mes dumb animal.

It's a bit boring without a predator isn't it?

how many can count?

I forget what is 0 in base 2? and what is 0 in base 3? and what is 0 in base 4? and what is 0 in base 5?

o and what is infinity in base 2? and what is infinity in base 3? and what is infinity in base 4? and what is infinity in base 5?

or are the bases like the ice in that it don't contain the water it is the water?

this monkey head fall off.

Read this and the entire time all i could picture was an alligator walking upright in a Tux walking a human being who is on all fours...hm.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by DocHolidaze

 

so are these human sized insect and reptiles or are they there respective sizes?

Yes more or less the same size. 4-8 feet

Pretty much any insect your size and intellect would destroy anything on its path. Even a big lizard that can grow limbs and have all those acute senses would be no match for a human-size praying mantis, or a locust.

Plus in the natural "reptile" world, they dont really have a "structured army"... now the insects have a natural army, armored vehicles, tanks, heavy duty bulldozers, airforce with fighters, bombers, carriers and big and small versions of each, navy, amphibian forces, etc... Insects are way more aggressive and naturally built for war. Now imagine them intelligent! Weaponized insects would be a nightmare...

So... a lizard my size I could handle but an insect no way...

reply to post by Druscilla

I suspect when/if we ever do encounter an alien species/culture, technological or no, they'll be entirely alien such we'll have a difficult time relating, communicating, and finding anything in common.

And I suspect the opposite. I suspect these "Aliens" have never really left so when we see them they look quite natural to our eye. We accept them as our leaders of Society and Academia. They will conduct themselves as our hero's and saviors, while they continually heard us into tighter and tighter corals. Some of these "Aliens" will actually care for the plight of humanity in the flesh, while others come here to thwart freedom of thought, and impress how knowledgeable, self centered, and arrogant, they truly are.

The only difference I see from humanity and any "Alien Intelligence" is, we human beings are intentionality held back and handicapped, by our own choice. If we were not held back, it really would not be a fair fight.

reply to post by All Seeing Eye


It's not arrogance if you're right.

Further, all this about people getting held back is mostly deflection by people who've made poor choices in neglecting to seek out and obtain a higher education at any local University.

People without educations tend to play the blame game that it's someone else's fault for their woes (TPTB, They, Society), typically some vague amalgamation of everything and everyone they hold in envy.
Had they gone to school, gotten an education, they too could be a banker, lawyer, doctor, scientist, engineer, or any number of other respected professions that have a tendency to fill the professional's pockets with money and liberties envied by the uneducated.

-- FYI; regarding a post in another thread - You're seeing satellites, not UFOs. They disappear when they fall into Earth's shadow.