Why don't you believe? (@Non-Believers and Skeptics)

Originally posted by LoveisanArt
Once again for those who havent read... Im leaving for Alberta tonight, I have some more packing the truck etc to do.. then a 2-3day drive out west. Dont have anymore time for the thread, learned enough about human ignorance though

For someone that's exhibited willfully blind ignorance with a refusal to even consider learning, up to and including a paranoid hostility toward University Education, your statement above, highlighted, is pure comedy.

What's even more humorous is the penchant for usage of the word "ignorance" as a derogatory instead of a descriptor where when used as a descriptor the meaning is; lack of knowing.

There is nothing wrong with not knowing ...


All this, however, seems to sadly be beyond you.

reply to post by InhaleExhale


Not sure how you could be confused by that.

Lack of evidence is not in fact evidence.

If you're looking for answers, don't follow lack of evidence, follow evidence.

There's no contradiction there.

reply to post by LoveisanArt


Riiiight.

So more vague claims, nonsensical attempts at proving that some sort of spiritual connection to... Something... Negates any need for evidence... And nothing else...


Oh and a lot of people believing something stupid doesn't make it less stupid, it just makes it more common.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by LoveisanArt

 

If it is not known, how can you say it does not exist? Hence the entire point of the thread..

Fifteen pages later and you still refuse to understand the answer you have asked for. Not one skeptic on this thread has said that "aliens do not exist." Some have even gone so far as to state that the existence of extraterrestrial life is a statistical certainty. Your entire thread is based on a misunderstanding of the difference between belief and knowledge. At this point, it is beginning to look like a willful misunderstanding.

Skepticism is an attitude, not a belief. It embraces methodologies like critical thinking, logic and the scientific method to arrive at knowledge. Belief is founded on an unquestioning acceptance of another's authority or simple wish fulfillment. It does not result in knowledge.

The thread says "Why dont you believe".. not why has science not shown us the existence of ETs.. personally what makes you as an individually feel the existence is impossible.

This thread isnt for those who statistically think life CAN exist.. its a straight - "I believe", "I dont believe" thing here.I specifically asked for those who DONT beleive to explain why this is.

Why I havent got it 15, now 18 pages is because you so called skeptics havent answered this honestly to yourselves. I answerd it for you in saying - "because science hasnt found ET life, you dont beleive" - you need outside sources to find the truth about the reality you breath and operate in.

Skepticism is naturally in ALL beings, even animals and insects. For instance: A cat is skeptical of walking near a pack of dogs. The creature is naturally skeptical in making a move, it might put its body in harms way.

This skepticism we see on human forums is not natural; it spawns from unbelievable ignorance and arrogance as an individual. We are ALL skeptical in nature, almost every breathing creature is. THIS type of skepticism we see on ATS is becoming the new perception in society.

Dont believe anything until we have; visual, audio, kinetic 'evidence.. and this isnt always possible when we are surface beings with limited ways of THINKING (with the mind) and doing things.
Yet we ignorantly express our dis belief towards life in the cosmos, beyond Earth..

Im not as crazy or dumb as you think; just on a different level then you are maybe

Originally posted by Druscilla

Two words:

Empirical Evidence

Show us some Empirical data that any of this stuff is true, and we'll happily line up.

Pretty much summed up my thoughts on the matter... The burden of proof is on those that make such a claim..

A similar argument would be if I were a die hard believer in the easter bunny and I asked people to prove that he doesn't exist.. no, it would be on me then to prove with empirical evidence that he exists... there's a big difference between empirical and circumstantial evidence... People tend to jump so quickly to "ooh, I see something I don't understand in the sky! .. therefore, Aliens!"

You see it in every topic... Ooh, a weird hairless looking thing in mexico.. CHUPACABRA! .. or .. Contrails in the sky... MIND ALTERING CHEMTRAILS!

Originally posted by LoveisanArt

Originally posted by InhaleExhale
reply to post by LoveisanArt

 

There is no doubt our minds have different capabilties;

I believe we all have the same potential

So which is it? Both quotes from your posts I believe are speaking of the mind so do we have the same potential? or are some capabilities limited in some and not others?

Are you serious...-.- Maybe side with your sarcasm, and your logic mind might be able to squirt some intelligence on ya..

DIFFERENT CAPABILITIES - telepathy, telekinsis, foresight, energetic reading (psychic)

We are all operating at different levels, we seek different things with our individual minds. We all have the capacity mentally to learn these abilities. Some learn quicker then others, some never learn at all.. but we have the same potenial to develop the same mental abilities. Some might be stronger and more developed then others.

Physically some people grow faster and healthier then others. Some people are athletic, others couldnt run for the life of 'em.
The mental reality is the same reflection as the physical..

How did you not understand this with those two seperate sentences?

"Some learn quicker then others, some never learn at all.. but we have the same potenial to develop the same mental abilities. Some might be stronger and more developed then others."

That sentence actually means we don't have the same potential which in fact I agree with you that we do but to state so and then say some do some dont shows that you are trying to validate your beliefs with your beliefs and the answer you will always get from your self on your beliefs is that they are correct.

Originally posted by stanislav

Originally posted by InhaleExhale
reply to post by LoveisanArt

 

There is no doubt our minds have different capabilties;

I believe we all have the same potential

So which is it? Both quotes from your posts I believe are speaking of the mind so do we have the same potential? or are some capabilities limited in some and not others?

Hahaha she makes ZERO SENSE. Like I said this many times before, DELUSIONAL people do not and cannot make any sense at any time of day, hour, minute. Being delusional is like being drunk. Your common sense and logic is thrown straight out of the window so anything or anyone that does not conform to your views is deemed by them as ignorant. Everyone becomes your enemy UNLESS THEY BELIEVE YOU.

edit on 26-11-2012 by stanislav because: (no reason given)

Only so when you choose to voice them to the public, I myself as I believe many others have what I consider to be delusional thinking or a delusional view of reality but it only becomes delusional when you try and impose your beliefs on another.

Originally posted by miniatus

Originally posted by Druscilla

Two words:

Empirical Evidence

Show us some Empirical data that any of this stuff is true, and we'll happily line up.

Pretty much summed up my thoughts on the matter... The burden of proof is on those that make such a claim..

A similar argument would be if I were a die hard believer in the easter bunny and I asked people to prove that he doesn't exist.. no, it would be on me then to prove with empirical evidence that he exists... there's a big difference between empirical and circumstantial evidence... People tend to jump so quickly to "ooh, I see something I don't understand in the sky! .. therefore, Aliens!"

You see it in every topic... Ooh, a weird hairless looking thing in mexico.. CHUPACABRA! .. or .. Contrails in the sky... MIND ALTERING CHEMTRAILS!

edit on 11/26/2012 by miniatus because: (no reason given)

Again off topic.. "DENY IGNORANCE" seriously Ats?? Thats your motto? How ironic..

First off aliens are not a human created thing; we suggest humans create everything the universe operates for us... this is MORE ignorance and arrogance! Where ar eyou going to get in the universe with that mentality as a species?

You have NO idea what your talking about, this is nothing to do with guessing whats in the sky and instantly labelling it alien.. we are ALL skeptical in nature, we all observe and judge things the same way. Our brains ALL have the same capacity; the ONLY difference among men and women of Earth is there MINDS and how they operate, how they perceive the space and existence around them..

**Jump on science's bandwagon, progress intellectually at the same rate as those making your science happen**

Or think for yourselves and take control over your minds.. hmm one day

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
To those that don't believe in extraterrestrial life being a possibility, verbally attacking others and throwing random accusations and presumptions whilst wearing your blinkers really just makes your posts look like asinine rants from trolls. If you don't want to be accused of trolling then try to avoid trolling tactics.

There is a STRONG difference in asking "Why don't you believe" as the title says.. and "Why don't you believe in it being possible?"

I think most of those skeptics, including myself would absolutely say we believe there is a possibility.. but that wasn't the question posed..

Any intelligent person would be open to the possibility and given the vastness of the universe, perhaps even high probability.... but probability does not equate to evidence or proof of anything.. so it falls back to the OPs actual question.. why don't we believe? .... no empirical evidence.. this makes Alien life just as real as the tooth fairy for the time being.

The OP just doesn't like those responses..

Originally posted by LoveisanArt

Again off topic.. "DENY IGNORANCE" seriously Ats?? Thats your motto? How ironic..

First off aliens are not a human created thing; we suggest humans create everything the universe operates for us... this is MORE ignorance and arrogance! Where ar eyou going to get in the universe with that mentality as a species?

You have NO idea what your talking about, this is nothing to do with guessing whats in the sky and instantly labelling it alien.. we are ALL skeptical in nature, we all observe and judge things the same way. Our brains ALL have the same capacity; the ONLY difference among men and women of Earth is there MINDS and how they operate, how they perceive the space and existence around them..

**Jump on science's bandwagon, progress intellectually at the same rate as those making your science happen**

Or think for yourselves and take control over your minds.. hmm one day

How on earth is it off topic? .. it's precisely on topic.. the topic is "Why don't you believe" directed to non-believers and skeptics..

The bottom line is simple, there's no evidence to support that what we see in the night sky is alien .. I don't deny the possibility and even probability of alien life.. there very well may be.. but it would still require evidence before anyone in their right mind could believe it as fact.. Dream on if you think otherwise.

As for my examples.. they were just that.. examples.. Many of those who believe in something with zero evidence to support that believe will often ask non believers to prove that their belief is incorrect.. it doesn't work that way.. imagine if it did? I'll go back to my previous easter bunny example.

I believe the easter bunny exists.. if it's on you to prove that he doesn't, well you should believe in him with me until proven wrong... no, sorry .. it doesn't work that way.

I'm sorry of this upsets you.. life isn't always easy.. the fact is that people do make the mistake of seeing an unknown thing and making wild assumptions which they believe are fact.. Alien piloted UFO's, Chupacabra, Chemtrails.. are all valid examples of people seeing and believing without verifying or actually proving what they are seeing is ACTUALLY what they think it is.. if the world worked in that way we'd be in quite a mess

reply to post by InhaleExhale


If you have control over your mind how can one become "delusional"? Its a society reference to a mind that is misunderstood, a mind which does not operate standardly according to society and those who occupy this BOX.

I think its delusional to live for money; a concept of paper with ink on it.. which people kill and die for; I find it delusional that people do what they are told without making a stand. Its delusional to kill millions of animals everyday to "supply" society with food.. Its delusional to believe one man can change the world, yet 300,000,000 people make him their "leader" - he turns around and rapes your life like a leech...

I guess delusional is a very flexable word To me your a delusional human being with no grasp of its own mind potential; to YOU, Im delusional for experiencing things I never asked to and believing they did happen! To YOU its delusional to beleive life exists outside of Earths atmosphere because we havent seen it on CNN, or the VAtican hasnt announced this existence yet..

You humans are much dumber then you want to "believe" you are. We are operating at lower mental levels when we slave for society and fill our minds with useless # that really serves no purpose to our species..

Time for a roadtrip baby, gonna be a good journey! Hopefullly I'll more experiences on the way or see a few spaceships in the sky on my way to Alberta

Peace peeps, hope you enjoyed the thread as much as I did;
Remeber, we are all delusional

Originally posted by bottleslingguy

Originally posted by InhaleExhale
Have you even tried?

I'll tell you I have and there sure are a lot of some really willfully ignorant people out there. Even here I have been told they would bring my evidence to a professional digital expert. Then after a few weeks I asked if there was any progress with no reply until I asked again a little later and got this response like I just kicked this guy's dog and he was all like "Oh he doesn't have time for this" and blows it off. I have a couple good seconds of footage and three stills and the guy acts like I'm being a pain in the ass for asking for a closer examination. You know something a little more than a compressed video on the internet. I haven't heard once yet of anybody watching my footage on a large screen tv and just with slow motion you can clearly see this object is not what people are saying it is.

My point is it really doesn't matter if you believe what I saw or anybody who claims to has seen, I think those moments are for the individual who is witnessing the event. There may be a reason why some people never see them.

This is where you cannot rely on anyone on the net unless you are willing to pay for services such as video/photo analysis or take the time and educate on self on these processes.

Your point that it really doesn't matter what I believe you saw is so correct and a position others really need to look at.

I would be curios to see this footage of yours is it anywhere you could point me to that you maybe uploaded?

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth

Originally posted by stanislav
How is your age and life experience have anything to do with what I just said to you in my other post? I have experienced first hand alien abduction, astral projection, sleep paralysis, shadow beings and a whole lot of paranormal activities throughout my childhood till this day. So what ??? I can tell you with all honesty that even though I have had all of the above and more, I cannot say without a doubt that any of these was real. There is literally no proof of it other than my own subjective testimony. Personal experience is VERY subjective. For all I know it could have all been nothing more than my imagination, delusions, wishful thinking etc ... So when I speak about people like you and OP being delusional it is because I know this from FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE.

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
reply to post by stanislav

 

I am 41 years old, I have believed in extraterrestrial life since a child due to experiences. I didn't watch many sci fi movies as a child and didn't believe in it as true. Studying physics as a teenager, as well as religions and spiritual things has confirmed my belief, as well as my studies as an adult. You tube only became known to me within the last 8 years and trust me, most of the alien videos on there are nonsense and I don't believe David Icke or Sitchin nor the galactic federaton of light and such.

I am well educated, I make intelligent judgments, I also have a lot of life experience which confirms my beliefs, as do the stats.

You accused me of getting my beliefs from youtube.

Yet again, go back and read my post instead of presuming things I didn't say. Wasting my time arguing things I didn't say is pointless so go back and point out something specific you don't agree to and read my words in context.

If you think it was a waste of your time why did you waste more of your time replying to say your time is being wasted?

Would you like to waste anymore of your time?

reply to post by theabsolutetruth


Some kind of reply would be nice, just to know you're not sulking.

reply to post by LoveisanArt

I dont NEED evidence.. before the past 50 years no one required evidence you ignorant moron. Humans share stories through means of vocals, thank our memory banks for storing this information.. Nowadays you all want pictures, videos of SPACESHIPS AND ALIENS! ARE YOU SREIOUS? And I look dumb? You people are soo lost from the truth. My mind is obviously more developed then most of the posters, posting here. You CANNOT believe in the existence of something until you have a picture of video of it?

Thread and reality closed as the All Mighty has spoken, all must fear the creator of the universe none of us understand except OP, I mean the All Mighty, sorry don't hit me a lightning bolt


Sorry but I just have to

And I look dumb?

I don't know, would be game enough to post a photo of yourself so we can answer your question?

And finally folks be prepared is its all going to end soon as we have been told since the beginning, all the prophet say so even people who know what others believe and do say this

WHATEVER DUDE! Millions and millions are experiencing this 'phenomena'Its all coming soon enough.

How soon?

reply to post by stanislav

Well said! I think she is indeed, if not crazy is most likely DELUSIONAL. I am sure you will agree, there are a lot of delusional people on conspiracy forums. Ever wonder why? Why paranormal subjects always attract mentally unstable individuals? Con artists? Scam artists? Must I continue? One of the easiest explanations, because in order to talk about the paranormal subjects we are not require to provide any proof. Imagine if a scientist was to claim he found higgs boson partial in his laboratory. Would it be fair to ask him him to present public or scientific community for evidence such as scientific data . Sure it will be. Be here comes so crazy lady to this forum and claims she has nightly contact with extra terrestrial beings or Jesus or God or Demons or Devils and then gets UPSET and calls everyone sheep and blind because we apparently do not believe her.

OK, reading this thread and seeing agenda. I don't actually have the belief that most people are skeptics, and the kind of arguments they use, some seem logical, a few posts have demonstrated a certain fairness and logic, but not yours.

Your is an example of bullying, name calling, and the abuse those are sharing, (not with skeptics, they actually want a forum to talk to other experiences and bounce ideas back and forth to learn more). And yet your post there is a very common type.

Also, name calling immediately demonstrates a lack of logic, which invalidates your posts and position as a skeptic.

Yet you are addressing theabsolutetruth using the same words, invalidating everything you've said to her. Its just bullying, illogic, emotional, close minded and mean.

By the way there are tons of evidence of ET. Not just crafts, but crafts not being human/black op. Testimony has been given by those with far more security classification than the presidents or prime ministers of our nations have every had, barring perhaps those who ran the CIA, people with enough credentials to launch a nuclear attack and possibly destroy the world. In fact, our lives are in the hands of individuals such as who have given testimony, and they're far from incompetents.

There are many artifacts and writings throughout history as well. You can choose to ignore them, but they exist, and others don't.

And there are many experiencers of ufology.

Bullying looks bad on you.

By the way, until 2008, I wasn't exactly a skeptic, and really didn't have a reason for believing the sightings we had had, or all sightings in general, were secret military crafts. Just didn't really have a reason to believe something more. So more neutral and somewhat skeptical back then. Now I do.

But thats the thing about earth, we have choices to seek and what to believe. It's kind of the point of the school. And believing in ufology is not as important as integrity and compassion. But what you write lacks that as well. Bullying isn't integrity. Name calling is bullying.

Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by stanislav

 

Well said! I think she is indeed, if not crazy is most likely DELUSIONAL. I am sure you will agree, there are a lot of delusional people on conspiracy forums. Ever wonder why? Why paranormal subjects always attract mentally unstable individuals? Con artists? Scam artists? Must I continue? One of the easiest explanations, because in order to talk about the paranormal subjects we are not require to provide any proof. Imagine if a scientist was to claim he found higgs boson partial in his laboratory. Would it be fair to ask him him to present public or scientific community for evidence such as scientific data . Sure it will be. Be here comes so crazy lady to this forum and claims she has nightly contact with extra terrestrial beings or Jesus or God or Demons or Devils and then gets UPSET and calls everyone sheep and blind because we apparently do not believe her.

OK, reading this thread and seeing agenda. I don't actually have the belief that most people are skeptics, and the kind of arguments they use, some seem logical, a few posts have demonstrated a certain fairness and logic, but not yours.

Your is an example of bullying, name calling, and the abuse those are sharing, (not with skeptics, they actually want a forum to talk to other experiences and bounce ideas back and forth to learn more). And yet your post there is a very common type.

Also, name calling immediately demonstrates a lack of logic, which invalidates your posts and position as a skeptic.

Yet you are addressing theabsolutetruth using the same words, invalidating everything you've said to her. Its just bullying, illogic, emotional, close minded and mean.

By the way there are tons of evidence of ET. Not just crafts, but crafts not being human/black op. Testimony has been given by those with far more security classification than the presidents or prime ministers of our nations have every had, barring perhaps those who ran the CIA, people with enough credentials to launch a nuclear attack and possibly destroy the world. In fact, our lives are in the hands of individuals such as who have given testimony, and they're far from incompetents.

There are many artifacts and writings throughout history as well. You can choose to ignore them, but they exist, and others don't.

And there are many experiencers of ufology

Bullying looks bad on you.

By your logic the OPs position, one you and other "experiencers of ufology" seem to agree with, has been has invalidated.

Ergo: if you're right, the OPs name calling has disproven the entire history of "UFOology".

Way to go OP, ruining it for "experiencers" worldwide.

Originally posted by LoveisanArt
reply to post by InhaleExhale

 

If you have control over your mind how can one become "delusional"? Its a society reference to a mind that is misunderstood, a mind which does not operate standardly according to society and those who occupy this BOX.

I think its delusional to live for money; a concept of paper with ink on it.. which people kill and die for; I find it delusional that people do what they are told without making a stand. Its delusional to kill millions of animals everyday to "supply" society with food.. Its delusional to believe one man can change the world, yet 300,000,000 people make him their "leader" - he turns around and rapes your life like a leech...

I guess delusional is a very flexable word

To me your a delusional human being with no grasp of its own mind potential; to YOU, Im delusional for experiencing things I never asked to and believing they did happen! To YOU its delusional to beleive life exists outside of Earths atmosphere because we havent seen it on CNN, or the VAtican hasnt announced this existence yet..

You humans are much dumber then you want to "believe" you are. We are operating at lower mental levels when we slave for society and fill our minds with useless # that really serves no purpose to our species..

Time for a roadtrip baby, gonna be a good journey! Hopefullly I'll more experiences on the way or see a few spaceships in the sky on my way to Alberta

Peace peeps, hope you enjoyed the thread as much as I did;
Remeber, we are all delusional

More complete and utter nonsense.

I think I'll answer the question from my prior stance, prior to 2008. I didn't rule out ufology. I loved sci fi movies. But it wasn't real life to me, didn't solve the problems in front of me, and if anything opening doors on the paranormal, can be too wide open. So didn't have a strong stance either way, seemed logical there were ETs and yet no reason to believe in anything being more than black op, our own secret space program. What made the difference is experience, and having memories flood back to things I had simply shelved and forgotten.

So when I see posts by skeptics I keep being reminded that I also didn't pursue ufology beliefs, found them interesting but it much more practical to simply call it all military. And because it seems some people are woken up while others are not, I reason that either disclosure won't happen all at once and isn't meant to, so earth is a testing ground of sorts, OR, its happening slowly. But I do think, without name calling, people have a right to believe what they choose, no one can be forced, in fact even experiencers don't like being conscious in an environment that leaves no doubt, no room for chalking the sighting up to something else, its having the leeway that gives us our sense of reality and what is familiar, a feeling of being able to keep our feet on the ground.

reply to post by LoveisanArt
Ummm........I suppose the short answer is.......because one hasn't landed in front of me and asked directions to the nearest starbucks. That's not to say that I don't believe in the possibility of other more advanced cultures out there some where. Also, I have seen some weird things in the sky, some unidentified flying objects. However, it's a real stretch for me to conclude that they were extraterrestrial or piloted by aliens, again, I dont have the personal experiantial proof and will remain a sceptic until I do. I'll still remain a treckkie and Star Gate Universe is still the best scifi series out there. What can I say, I'm a scifi nut a healthy, sceptical, sci fi lovin, wish I was flying my own Millenium Falcon to work.....optimist. See you really can be an optimistic sceptic...or is that sceptical optimist?



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