Why don't you believe? (@Non-Believers and Skeptics)

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posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by LoveisanArt
It just came to me the moment I logged on actually XD

Im interested in experience. If anyone who hasnt experienced this; how can you say it does not exist?


This is called argumentum ad Ignorantiam fallacy, and this means you can't say that since I have no proof of them NOT existing then they must exist.

As a skeptic I'm not saying anything as to whether they exist or not. What I am saying though, is that since you clam they do exist then it is YOUR responsibility to prove it, not mine. We can sit around drinking scotch and smoking cigars all day and talk about the "what if", but that is not what your post is all about and I see that you feel this is a battle between those that believe and those that do not, and that is far from the case.

You should understand that the only difference between you and a skeptic is how much evidence is needed to believe, and in your case you need very little to none.



People are not sure how to full use their minds yet hence "we only use 10% of our brains".. but again, misleading - we only use %10 of our minds.


Actually this is a false belief....we use 100% of our brains. I doubt that our bodies would pump 25% of our energy into brain function, but only use 10% of it....does that make any sense?



We do have more "senses" (awareneesses) which are not physically-receptive in nature. This is what we call today as "psychic". This is when one's 'third eye' is awake and active. This allows the individual to perceive past the 5 senses (Mind).


Once again something that has never been quantifiable.

In the true experiment environment tests have always...ALWAYS failed. Can't say that is a good track record to suggest it exists.


Im skeptical in nature too; I think every human is at least partially skeptical, its like a defense mechnanism for the mind. Helps us from falling for false faith.

If you do not know anything about the psychic nature; there are psychics in every city, you can go look for them and ask them whatever it is you like. That, OR, you can flex your own mental muscle, and use your mind in more ways then to photocopy information and think randomly..


Have a nice life




posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 08:33 AM
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]Originally posted by LoveisanArt
Why dont you believe starships, extraterrestrial life, energy, mind power, and multiple dimensions of reality? What makes you belive these things do not exist in all of creation?


The same reason that I dont believe in a god/supreme being, lack of evidence. Actually the discovery of the Higgs Bosun may very well lead to the discovery of multiple dimensions, possibly open a window or door into other dimensions.

"If it doesnt make sense its fake."

I've never in my life wrote something off as fake if it didn't make sense, at the same time I also don't just take someone at their word when they make an outlandish claim. This again goes back to credible evidence.

" As a skeptic has not perceived an alien or starship; it must not exist. All this skeptic knows is everything it has; seen, heard, touched, smelled, tasted or thought.. Aliens do not mingle in everyday reality with humans, therefore they do not exist ...
The "I haven't seen it, so I cant believe it" mentality."


I've never seen evolution occur, but we have credible evidence so I know evolution is real. That is the cool thing about the scientific method, regardless of whether you accept or deny the evidence, fact is still fact.

"This is why it confuses me with people who do not belive in extraterrestrial life, multiple universes/dimensions .. you delete an aspect of reality - out of your perception OF reality. Therefore you shall not experience. WHY?"

False, if I didn't believe in rain it would still exist and occur, If I stepped outside while it was raining I would experience the rain regardless of my denial of its existence.

"We think we can explain everything, because we think we know everything there is to know. This is why aliens do not exist - we dont know about them..hmm.
"


I don't know why this post is popular, you aren't presenting any evidence just making assumptions about people you obviously don't understand.

"You expect extraterrestrials to LAND on our planet and present themselves to humanity..??
we think we are ready for contact; we are "intelligent" and mature enough to meet with these other races.."


This is the type of argument that irritates me. It is the same as a religious argument when someone says "well if your god is omnipotent, why does he allow genocide?" then the religious proponent says "god works in mysterious ways."

"The REAL extraterrestrials would know better then that... they do not perceive reality like WE DO. Our perception is fixed based on limited knowledge and falling slave to the mind (money, religion, GOD..etc). We cannot operate on their level yet, until we break free from our mental habits."

Once again, this is a claim without credible evidence. As you are inviting us to express why we don't believe, I am asserting you need to back up your belief with credible evidence. Key word being credible.

"To me, it's quite obvious they exist; they are here, they always have been.. the word 'they' in this context is referencing to countless races of extraterrestrials who exist in the unknown universe(s)."

To me, common sense dictates that if they are capable of traveling vast distances of space and they are peaceful, then they would be capable of making contact and ensuring their own safety. If they are a warring civilization, I'm sure their technology would be quite capable of defeating us quite easily.

"I'm interested in why YOU don't believe these things exist. What is it within YOU that believes ETs, UFOs, spirits etc.. DO NOT exist? Do you dis-believe because you fear the unknown? Or because you know for a fact it's 'impossible' they can exist?"

This is a false dichotomy, another tactic commonly used by people that lack credible evidence to back their position. I neither fear the unknown, nor have I ever stated it is impossible that they can exist. It is merely the fact of the lack of credible evidence. Provide evidence to the scientific community that can be subjected to the scientific method and presto!

"I'm sure these so called skeptics and non-believers won't even respond
that says enough for the rest of us
"


Responded and rationalized.

I'd like to close with this, I don't think there is anything wrong with keeping an open mind to possibilities. We may very well have contact with a new intelligent species before I eat lunch today, I don't think it is likely though. However when we believe something fervently that we ignore evidence or close our minds to any other thought then the belief is hindering us. When we believe something so fervently that we halt looking into other possibilities then we have stalled our advancement as a species. When we believe something so fervently that we commit genocide or deny others their rights (I'm looking at you religion), then we are doomed
edit on 26-11-2012 by ohaiderats because: sorry, screwed up the quoting
edit on 26-11-2012 by ohaiderats because: ha screwed up the quoting again
edit on 26-11-2012 by ohaiderats because: bolded the questions posed by OP



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 08:34 AM
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Originally posted by LoveisanArt
If it is not known, how can you say it does not exist? Hence the entire point of the thread..


en.wikipedia.org...

" If P, then Q. P is a fallacious argument. Therefore, Q is false."



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 08:37 AM
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Originally posted by InhaleExhale
reply to post by LoveisanArt
 





There is no doubt our minds have different capabilties;






I believe we all have the same potential



So which is it? Both quotes from your posts I believe are speaking of the mind so do we have the same potential? or are some capabilities limited in some and not others?



Are you serious...-.- Maybe side with your sarcasm, and your logic mind might be able to squirt some intelligence on ya..


DIFFERENT CAPABILITIES - telepathy, telekinsis, foresight, energetic reading (psychic)

We are all operating at different levels, we seek different things with our individual minds. We all have the capacity mentally to learn these abilities. Some learn quicker then others, some never learn at all.. but we have the same potenial to develop the same mental abilities. Some might be stronger and more developed then others.

Physically some people grow faster and healthier then others. Some people are athletic, others couldnt run for the life of 'em.
The mental reality is the same reflection as the physical..

How did you not understand this with those two seperate sentences?



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 08:38 AM
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Originally posted by LoveisanArt

Originally posted by longlostbrother

Originally posted by LoveisanArt

Originally posted by kdog1982
If it was not known to you,how can you believe in it?

Someone gave you the info to believe in.
Do you trust that source or person?

Critical thinking is your friend in the quest for knowledge.


If it is not known, how can you say it does not exist? Hence the entire point of the thread..


No.

You don't believe in something due to lack of evidence. That's a real failure of critical thinking.

Follow the evidence.


Your mind cannot be physically measured to provide evidence of what it experiences.. are you DUMB? Follow along and open your mind a bit.. you "non believers" might learn something.

I believe something based on first hand experiences, second hand experiences and listening to others who have shared the same kind of experiences.. we all have done our online reaearch about ETs and UFOS... its different when you LIVE the experience.

As real as you waking up in the morning and going to work. This is exactly how contactees experience what they do. OFC science hasnt been contacted so whatever is said to be contacted (ETs) cannot exist
hmm Im getting sick of that mentality.


ITs no wonder humanity is lost and confused battling eachother inside a BOX (soceity). You cant even think for yourselves, you will NEVER experience these such things, because YOU cant handle it.

YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!

And the TRUTH is, ETS EXIST. Alright? Dont believe me, you dont have to.

Im in the middle of huge move right now, heading West to Alberta, so I wont have time to respond all week (Im in Ontario). Thank you for the honest replies by members here, for the others who arrogantly knock off the existence of higher life forms.. thanks for your input and 2 sense.

What I have learned from this thread (which was my intentions of the thread); when an individual has no reference to a giving subject, it automatically writes it off as fantasy or non existent until POW, proving otherwise

Its coming people, hole on to your horses. Humanity just needs to correct its headed course, and have the WILL to evolve; mentally, spiritually, emotionally, psychicly.. one day the potential of our minds will be met, and we too will be flying the cosmos.

Thanks again everyone for your input and piece of mind,

~ Love is an art


Why oh why is everyone that feels the need to add a signature to their posts such an egotistical ass?

You say, and assume it's a great argument that:

"Your mind cannot be physically measured to provide evidence of what it experiences.. are you DUMB? "

Well, first off, that's not exactly true, and secondly it's certainly not evidence of anything related to UFOs.

Then you say:

I believe something based on first hand experiences, second hand experiences and listening to others who have shared the same kind of experiences.. we all have done our online reaearch about ETs and UFOS... its different when you LIVE the experience."

Of course your first hand experience won't bear close scrutiny, will they? You having faith in others retelling of their experiences certainly isn't proof or evidence and believing random (and probably long debunked) UFO crap on ATS isn't exactly evidence of anything either.

These sorts of huge leaps in logic, your massive ego, the fact that you choose faith over evidence and the fact that you won't engage with sceptics, other than to dismiss them, makes you a pretty weak defender of your beliefs.

Your mind is so "open" it's allowing a lot of junk in.



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by InhaleExhale
reply to post by LoveisanArt
 





There is no doubt our minds have different capabilties;






I believe we all have the same potential



So which is it? Both quotes from your posts I believe are speaking of the mind so do we have the same potential? or are some capabilities limited in some and not others?



Hahaha she makes ZERO SENSE. Like I said this many times before, DELUSIONAL people do not and cannot make any sense at any time of day, hour, minute. Being delusional is like being drunk. Your common sense and logic is thrown straight out of the window so anything or anyone that does not conform to your views is deemed by them as ignorant. Everyone becomes your enemy UNLESS THEY BELIEVE YOU.
edit on 26-11-2012 by stanislav because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 08:41 AM
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reply to post by LoveisanArt
 





Firstly YOU are ASSUMING people think like that, it doesn't make it so...


And your thread telling others what they know/believe and experience is what if not an assumption?




How do I give you evidence of the 26 moments I witnessed spacecraft?


Have you even tried? How did you know what you witnessed was a spacecraft, were you one of few hu-mans
that have been to space?


You sound like the biggest egomaniac, I would be a lot worse but I keep my beliefs and view of reality to myself,

This is why I see you have many issues which you cant find logical resolutions to and created an easy way out.

Reality is what you make of it, what your doing is what a christian would say the devil is doing and that's trying to poison our minds with what you think the world is or should be like.

Whether you know or see what your doing good luck to you with your pursuits



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 08:43 AM
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Originally posted by bjarneorn
... it's a vector in mathematics,


actually the vector is representing something other than itself and science didn't bring an end to religion because religion is an intuitive aspect of human beings that varies culturally in traditions and methods and is obviously not one of your strong points.



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 08:44 AM
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reply to post by stanislav
 


I am 41 years old, I have believed in extraterrestrial life since a child due to experiences. I didn't watch many sci fi movies as a child and didn't believe in it as true. Studying physics as a teenager, as well as religions and spiritual things has confirmed my belief, as well as my studies as an adult. You tube only became known to me within the last 8 years and trust me, most of the alien videos on there are nonsense and I don't believe David Icke or Sitchin nor the galactic federaton of light and such.

I am well educated, I make intelligent judgments, I also have a lot of life experience which confirms my beliefs, as do the stats.



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by Wongbeedman

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by theabsolutetruth
 



I do believe.

I think that those that don't, choose not to, consciously or subconsciously because of various factors.


You're simply wrong. Please go back and actually read the thread. There is a great difference between belief and knowledge. You are free to believe anything you want, but belief is a barrier to knowledge.


I do not need to read the entire thread at all. I replied to the OP. This is a valid opinion whether you like it or not. People choose whether or not to believe.

Do you not agree?


I disagree.
I you're confusing knowledge with belief.
I'm a believer, I believe because I know, I know because the evidence is there, that proves life is out there.
What cannot be proven is that UFOs are aliens, or that god created the world.
Anything like this, that cannot, even in the slightest be proven, people like you choose to believe. Belief spawned religion, but that is my opinion, not my belief because I don't claim to be right. Catch my drift?


Please go argue to yourself.

You just made too many assumptions on my post and beliefs to start commenting on them, as well as the ''people like you'' comment.

I said I believe, I didn't say any more about my beliefs or even mentioned religion so basically you presumed something about me then argued it. Way to troll a thread!

Perhaps you could try reading my post in it's entirety before making ridiculous presumptions...oh wait trolls don't do that.
edit on 26-11-2012 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
reply to post by stanislav
 


I am 41 years old, I have believed in extraterrestrial life since a child due to experiences. I didn't watch many sci fi movies as a child and didn't believe in it as true. Studying physics as a teenager, as well as religions and spiritual things has confirmed my belief, as well as my studies as an adult. You tube only became known to me within the last 8 years and trust me, most of the alien videos on there are nonsense and I don't believe David Icke or Sitchin nor the galactic federaton of light and such.

I am well educated, I make intelligent judgments, I also have a lot of life experience which confirms my beliefs, as do the stats.


If it's so rational and logical, your belief, show us your proof.



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 08:56 AM
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Originally posted by InhaleExhale
Have you even tried?


I'll tell you I have and there sure are a lot of some really willfully ignorant people out there. Even here I have been told they would bring my evidence to a professional digital expert. Then after a few weeks I asked if there was any progress with no reply until I asked again a little later and got this response like I just kicked this guy's dog and he was all like "Oh he doesn't have time for this" and blows it off. I have a couple good seconds of footage and three stills and the guy acts like I'm being a pain in the ass for asking for a closer examination. You know something a little more than a compressed video on the internet. I haven't heard once yet of anybody watching my footage on a large screen tv and just with slow motion you can clearly see this object is not what people are saying it is.

My point is it really doesn't matter if you believe what I saw or anybody who claims to has seen, I think those moments are for the individual who is witnessing the event. There may be a reason why some people never see them.



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 08:56 AM
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How is your age and life experience have anything to do with what I just said to you in my other post? I have experienced first hand alien abduction, astral projection, sleep paralysis, shadow beings and a whole lot of paranormal activities throughout my childhood till this day. So what ??? I can tell you with all honesty that even though I have had all of the above and more, I cannot say without a doubt that any of these was real. There is literally no proof of it other than my own subjective testimony. Personal experience is VERY subjective. For all I know it could have all been nothing more than my imagination, delusions, wishful thinking etc ... So when I speak about people like you and OP being delusional it is because I know this from FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE.


Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
reply to post by stanislav
 


I am 41 years old, I have believed in extraterrestrial life since a child due to experiences. I didn't watch many sci fi movies as a child and didn't believe in it as true. Studying physics as a teenager, as well as religions and spiritual things has confirmed my belief, as well as my studies as an adult. You tube only became known to me within the last 8 years and trust me, most of the alien videos on there are nonsense and I don't believe David Icke or Sitchin nor the galactic federaton of light and such.

I am well educated, I make intelligent judgments, I also have a lot of life experience which confirms my beliefs, as do the stats.



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 09:01 AM
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reply to post by stanislav
 


Presumably you are calling this guy stupid and illogical, this guy who probably is more educated in such scientific, logical matters as Physics than you, as well as having actually studied the search for extraterrestrial life, which presumably you don't hold any qualifications in Physics or Astrophysics, Quantum Mechanics etc, oh wait did MSM give you the idea...MSM that basically glorifies nonsense and makes humanity a ridiculous parody of itself? Perhaps you could write a manual on how to not to learn the truth of the universe.

science.howstuffworks.com...



These discoveries have served as an affirmation for those involved with the search for extraterrestrial intelligent life, or SETI. Harvard physicist and SETI leader Paul Horowitz boldly stated in a 1996 interview with TIME Magazine, "Intelligent life in the universe? Guaranteed. Intelligent life in our galaxy? So overwhelmingly likely that I'd give you almost any odds you'd like."



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 09:02 AM
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Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
reply to post by stanislav
 


Presumably you are calling this guy stupid and illogical, this guy who probably is more educated in such scientific, logical matters as Physics than you, as well as having actually studied the search for extraterrestrial life, which presumably you don't hold any qualifications in Physics or Astrophysics, Quantum Mechanics etc, oh wait did MSM give you the idea...MSM that basically glorifies nonsense and makes humanity a ridiculous parody of itself? Perhaps you could write a manual on how to not to learn the truth of the universe.

science.howstuffworks.com...



These discoveries have served as an affirmation for those involved with the search for extraterrestrial intelligent life, or SETI. Harvard physicist and SETI leader Paul Horowitz boldly stated in a 1996 interview with TIME Magazine, "Intelligent life in the universe? Guaranteed. Intelligent life in our galaxy? So overwhelmingly likely that I'd give you almost any odds you'd like."



I clicked through and checked his proof, which was overwhelming...

Oh wait no - he offered no proof... just an opinion.



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by stanislav
How is your age and life experience have anything to do with what I just said to you in my other post? I have experienced first hand alien abduction, astral projection, sleep paralysis, shadow beings and a whole lot of paranormal activities throughout my childhood till this day. So what ??? I can tell you with all honesty that even though I have had all of the above and more, I cannot say without a doubt that any of these was real. There is literally no proof of it other than my own subjective testimony. Personal experience is VERY subjective. For all I know it could have all been nothing more than my imagination, delusions, wishful thinking etc ... So when I speak about people like you and OP being delusional it is because I know this from FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE.


Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
reply to post by stanislav
 


I am 41 years old, I have believed in extraterrestrial life since a child due to experiences. I didn't watch many sci fi movies as a child and didn't believe in it as true. Studying physics as a teenager, as well as religions and spiritual things has confirmed my belief, as well as my studies as an adult. You tube only became known to me within the last 8 years and trust me, most of the alien videos on there are nonsense and I don't believe David Icke or Sitchin nor the galactic federaton of light and such.

I am well educated, I make intelligent judgments, I also have a lot of life experience which confirms my beliefs, as do the stats.


You accused me of getting my beliefs from youtube.

Yet again, go back and read my post instead of presuming things I didn't say. Wasting my time arguing things I didn't say is pointless so go back and point out something specific you don't agree to and read my words in context.



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 09:05 AM
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reply to post by longlostbrother
 


You can't get all the written papers on such studies on google. Nice try.



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 09:06 AM
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Originally posted by theabsolutetruth

Originally posted by stanislav
How is your age and life experience have anything to do with what I just said to you in my other post? I have experienced first hand alien abduction, astral projection, sleep paralysis, shadow beings and a whole lot of paranormal activities throughout my childhood till this day. So what ??? I can tell you with all honesty that even though I have had all of the above and more, I cannot say without a doubt that any of these was real. There is literally no proof of it other than my own subjective testimony. Personal experience is VERY subjective. For all I know it could have all been nothing more than my imagination, delusions, wishful thinking etc ... So when I speak about people like you and OP being delusional it is because I know this from FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE.


Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
reply to post by stanislav
 


I am 41 years old, I have believed in extraterrestrial life since a child due to experiences. I didn't watch many sci fi movies as a child and didn't believe in it as true. Studying physics as a teenager, as well as religions and spiritual things has confirmed my belief, as well as my studies as an adult. You tube only became known to me within the last 8 years and trust me, most of the alien videos on there are nonsense and I don't believe David Icke or Sitchin nor the galactic federaton of light and such.

I am well educated, I make intelligent judgments, I also have a lot of life experience which confirms my beliefs, as do the stats.


You accused me of getting my beliefs from youtube.

Yet again, go back and read my post instead of presuming things I didn't say. Wasting my time arguing things I didn't say is pointless so go back and point out something specific you don't agree to and read my words in context.


I don't care where you get your beliefs - I care if you have evidence to back up your beliefs.



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 09:07 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Nov, 26 2012 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
reply to post by longlostbrother
 


You can't get all the written papers on such studies on google. Nice try.


It's not a "try".

If there were any real proof of extraterrestrial life I wouldn't have to read studies, it would be on the news in every country, non-stop, for weeks on end.

What there is, is a group of people that assume their beliefs are sound enough to be factual, even though they don't have more than assumptions about things.

You certainly haven't presented any evidence.





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