Why don't you believe? (@Non-Believers and Skeptics)

reply to post by LoveisanArt


Your alien stories, are nothing more than another religion. It's based on an inner human, or mammal need, to belong and paternity. You need a dad, so you look for God ... he's your daddy. You fear death, so you must live forever ... eternity. You cannot cope with non-existance, so you need continuity ...

The fact, that science has brought about the end of religion, gave birth to the Aliens-religion. And, now, just like before ... the skeptics are non-believers. We're bad people ... you hate us. We should be crucified, right ... because we're ripping your religion apart. The very foundation for your existance ... now you got no Dad up there in the skeis ... no big brother, than you can say is gonna come and get me, if I'm bad ... they're gonna punish me in another life, after I'm dead ... murder me for eternity.

That's religion ...

The big question is, Aliens ... what do they want? Play God? have a chat with you?

Is that all you can think of, if you'd make it to another planet? ya wanna play God, like Jack Sparrow in Pirates of the Carribean?

And these dimensions? what dimensions do exist? three ... but they're mathematical that are used to describe aspects of physical reality ... it doesn't mean, that because you can have more dimensions in mathematics, that reality is equivalent to mathematics ...

it isn't

The often misguided 4th dimension, called time ... is not a dimension. Because it's one way ... it's a vector in mathematics, which in reality, totally collapses any ideas of multi-dimensional reality. It may look extremely smart on paper, but that is all it is ...

And in the end ... it's not enough to go to church, or a mosque and pray ... that's just an excuse to be able to gang up on someone. You have to have some proof of the existance of a God ... and your not it.

The usual ideology "Look at me, I'm a miracle ... I'm proof that there is a God, becuase someone must have created me" ... is blind misguided belief, and not a desire to find God ... but a hidden desire TO BE GOD.

Which is the basis of most belief systems ... they're not search for truth, they are excuses to be different. A hidden desire to BE GOD, or to be ABOVE EVERYONE ELSE.

The core of all Alien belief, is that we're the Aliens who landed here millions of years ago, etc.

The core of all religions, is that GOD is OUR FATHER.

etc,etc,etc ...

which is the reason, it's nonsense ... because it's based on a misguided desire of ascending oneself.

Originally posted by stanislav
I would have to disagree on that one though. If you are talking about personal truth then yeah sure I totally agree. Personal truth is open to interpolation. It's subjective. However truth or fact always stays constant. It's been proven by science of today that we are made of atoms. Now I wouldn't toss this truth in the same pool as those who claim they have been abducted by aliens. I was too supposedly abducted but there are no evidence of anything other than subjective interpretation of something that happened to me. No eye witness, no physical evidence etc ...

Well, without derailing the thread I'd have to point out that 'truth' and 'fact' aren't always synonymous. That however is a different conversation altogether.

reply to post by bjarneorn


I can't stop handing stars to you people. I enjoyed reading your post. Very well put. However I doubt she is going to listen. People under the influence cannot think critically. And that is exactly what region new age or otherwise does to their mind.

reply to post by Slave2Fate


Hahah! You might be correct. I apologize. In fact I am going to read upon the different between truth and fact on wiki LOL!

I'd say without a doubt I fall into the sceptic branch.
The reason being is although I enjoy reading about so-called paranormal events unfortunately before I believe in something I need to see concrete proof and evidence. Conjecture and supposition don't do it for me I'm afraid. And in the true spirit (no pun) of ATS I truly do question everything

The two sides seem very distinct too. On one you get the sceptics who believe in very little (unsubstantiated belief and scepticism are like oil and water)and the other, the believers. What is strange though is that the believers tend to believe in everything, from the most outlandish conspiracy theories to ghosts etc. almost without question.
Now is this trait to do with our upbringing, our experiences through life or is it deeper than that?

Originally posted by Pardon?
I'd say without a doubt I fall into the sceptic branch.
The reason being is although I enjoy reading about so-called paranormal events unfortunately before I believe in something I need to see concrete proof and evidence. Conjecture and supposition don't do it for me I'm afraid. And in the true spirit (no pun) of ATS I truly do question everything

The two sides seem very distinct too. On one you get the sceptics who believe in very little (unsubstantiated belief and scepticism are like oil and water)and the other, the believers. What is strange though is that the believers tend to believe in everything, from the most outlandish conspiracy theories to ghosts etc. almost without question.
Now is this trait to do with our upbringing, our experiences through life or is it deeper than that?

edit on 26/11/12 by Pardon? because: (no reason given)

From someone who has been on the other side of the fen I can tell you that being a believer is a psychological issue. It's deeply rooted in your psychic and is usually caused by a psychological trauma. No one wakes up one day and becomes religious unless they are born into it and even then they tend to rebel against it. I was going through a lot of hard time back than and one day I had what one of them (new age believers) will define as spiritual awakening. What these people are actually describing is a nervous breakdown. When we are faced with hard reality we lose it so our mind is trying to make sense. It's trying to protect itself from a total meltdown. Anything that gives hope and region usually does.

Cause when EVERY single piece of evidence requires 'faith', surely it has to be a hoax?

People lie, people are gullible too, they saw witches and demons for thousands of years too.

How can you believe with no evidence? :/

reply to post by stanislav



While it is true that there are certainly psychological aspects of belief (in anything, not just aliens) there has also been research that suggests that believers and skeptics are 'wired' differently as well.

Both groups showed brain activity in a region called the left Inferior Frontal Gyrus (IFG). That’s a part of the brain that plays an important role in processing various signs and their meaning, including spoken and written language, sign languages, pantomimes and gestures and other communicative symbols. However, although the left IFG was activated the same in both groups, the right IFG light up more strongly in the sceptics than in the believers. That’s important, because the right IFG is an area of the brain that is associated with cognitive inhibition.

www.secularnewsdaily.com...

My very first post here after several months of lurking and reading. I am a sceptic believer i guess you could say. Not that i don't believe that life exists elsewhere, math cannot lie. I just tend to agree with Professor Kaku with his own statements on the matter. "Your walking down a country road and off to the side you see a ant hill. Do you walk over to the ants and say "I bring you gifts. I bring you trinkets. I bring you nuclear fusion. Take me to your leader." no you possibly look at the ants, maybe step on a few then go on about your business. Its just a matter of us not really being that intresting"

I mean that statement to me is so ironic that it literilly destroyed any chance for Omg aliens are real and here !!!!! type of feeling one might get with this subject being new and all. I am very new, the subject only catching my intrest at the start of this year..

Why does that statement ring true for me? simple...

1.Just because i can see the way humans treat other so called "lower lifeforms" on this planet, and make no mistake, to them we would be a lower form of lifeform. We roll out into the wilderness and tranq animals and even though to us we are being "caring" i would really wonder if the bear/wolf etc thought so too.... i highly doubt it. Though in my mind this would lean some credance to abuductee stories if any evidence exisited that their abductions were a type of bag and tag deal. But this is a theory of mine not actual evidence.

2. If a "alien" species was coming to this planet why? Well why are we so determined to go out there? One would automatically think we are looking for life, but the reality is while yes we may be looking for "life" persay, ultimately its exploration, science ,and discovery driving us. Seeing things out there will help us to better our selves down here. Resourses that can be used by us. If we happen to find life along the way kudos.. we just changed our own world view somewhat. Does not mean that said life won't be more "primative" then us. Nope. don't mean it won't be more advanced then us either. it could go both ways to be honest, but in the end it servers us little purpose resource wise unless its the latter.

3. The "Their here to help us" thing don't ring true either. You wanna help humans? How would they do that? Teach us not to make war? Hahahah thats hilarious. I don't mean to mock but if man kind has not gotten the picture yet that war=bad then its not happening any time soon. Bring us better technology? Ok sounds fesible at first, but when you realize that even if one of their "scientist" showed us some tech, it wouldn't matter cause we have no basic understanding of how they ended up with said tech. The science behind it alone, would take years to evaluate because we have to understand how the science works, not just have it explained. You cannot jump to M from A without going through BCDEFGHIJKL first."It don't work that way.

4. Save the enviroment? Well i came to the conclusions i have said thus far based on the fact IF they are coming here at all , it would not be for our best intrests alone, if at all. Yes they just found life, all fine and good, but what does saving the enviroment for said lifeform do for them? So they can communicate with a primitve species about what? They have the knowledge, we dont. So why do we matter? Why would boosting our knowledge serve them? Trade and commerce? not likely considering if they had the tech to get here they have tech to make us give them what they want. Just because theres life here alone? Ehhhhhhhhh, i wanna have the rose tinted glasses of " hey theres life so lets help it out just cause" but consider these ideas. Its not their enviroment. Its just not their planet so why care if we are messing it up, they dont live here. We are also primitive to them so what can we really offer? If they gotta help us save our selves from our own waste then what can we truly offer them that would warrent all the effort? good conversation? I highly doubt it but in the end its rare that any being on our planet does anything without motives behind them. not saying it dont happen but as a commonplace thing... naa not so much. So why should i expect anything else from a being out in the universe?

These things i presented are my opinion on the matter, and like a good skeptic, evidence is the factor. Im sure since this is my first post as i said there will be atleast someone to tell me the fallacy of my statements and im open to that. Its why im here, but in the end evidence has to be the factor that i weight when it comes to this subject, and right now there is little evidence thats strong enough to prove or disprove leaving me firmly on the fence awaiting something to sway me either way.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by Imtor

 

So how do you go about proving something doesn't exist then?

Obviously by proving the sources are a lie. And while some sources are indeed lies, there are sources that do not seem to be lies and until they are also proven lies.

reply to post by Imtor


When all you have is stories that have no evidence than its not possible to prove its a lie the same as its not possible to prove they are true. Your logic is flawed.

If your logic was to be followed then all things that anyone imagines must exist until proven otherwise, like fairies , dragons and unicorns. But of course as rational adults we know they dont.

reply to post by LoveisanArt


If love is an art and ignorance is bliss, then you sir/mam/? have it in abundance minus
the love for not looking at both sides ....

Peace..

Ill leave you to simmer for two minutes and when your off the boil then apologize
to everyone for you're pedestal you put yourself up on above everyone who doesn't
see things you're way..

reply to post by denver22


Denver I just realized it’s you Whats up man I didn’t recognize you. T

Doesn’t this thread remind you of the Olympic justice league team with the awesome super mystical powers of awareness that saved the day from something that they still aren’t sure about.

Anyway good to see you. I have to say though this guy is not really playing with a full deck. I tried to tell him he should seek mental health guidance that they will not hurt them they will only help but I think he is so lost in his fantasy world he just blocked it out.

To be honest I am perfectly fine that these people don’t want to face reality but I live in the US and currently there aren’t any laws keeping these guys from buying stockpiles of guns for the big Alien invasion. To make matters worse some of them think aliens are disguised as humans. If it wasn’t for that fact I would be perfectly fine with them huffing unicorn farts and spouting off about this stuff. It is kind of entertaining.

reply to post by bjarneorn


Another aspect of religion is often times the claim of secret knowledge. Examine the Gnostic movement in the second through fourth centuries. We, as humans, love to feel special, higher, ascended above those around us. We derive purpose and meaning by thinking we are not a part of the regular flock but are somehow different - that we know something others don't. This post is nothing more than someone trying to hold his or her "secret knowledge", "religion" above those he feels don't have what he has. It is nothing more than a pride booster.

I do believe.

I think that those that don't, choose not to, consciously or subconsciously because of various factors.

Those factors, firstly, because of conditioning. From birth they are taught that ''aliens'' are green / grey non human entities from other planets that travel in space ships, they are the fodder of 50's and more recent sci-fi, and if you believe in that then you must be ''crazy''.

Most people only believe in that they are taught from parents, school and media. Had they been taught that dinosaurs and DNA are such sci-fi fodder then they most likely wouldn't believe in those either.

Secondly, they have not seen anything that fits the standard sc-fi model of ''aliens'' and only believe that which they see or are told to believe. They do not comprehend that ''alien'' could be something other than such a sci-fi model, or having the ability to travel time or dimensions and assume human form in such a way that isn't immediately distinguishable from the average human. Or that earth and humans could be the product of ''aliens''.

Society has taught a limited view, a limited set of beliefs to it's populace, probably for the purpose of control, and has essentially dumbed down so many of humanities inherent faculties, such as intuition and telepathic communication, as well as natural healing, plant medicine, empathy, long term responsibility, connections to the natural environment, on earth and dimensionally, and the recognition of the effects of universal energies on humanity and earth's environment.

Essentially society has created a self centred, ego led humanity with little regard for the natural order of things. As such it is essentially doomed in it's current form. Castles made of sand. This is happening now with global economic and environmental collapse. Humanity should rethink it's leaders and know that somewhere along the line it was misled.

Aliens = Extraterrestrial

Extraterrestrial may refer to any object or being beyond (extra-) the planet Earth (terrestrial). It is derived from the Latin Root extra ("outside", "outwards") and terrestris ("earthly", "of or relating to the Earth"). It may also refer to:

There are more stars than grains of sand on all the beaches on Earth in this Galaxy.

There are probably more than 170 billion (1.7 × 1011) galaxies in the observable Universe.

Statistically, it is an inconceivable notion and virtually impossible, the existence of only one type of intelligent life, on only one planet, in only one solar system, in only one galaxy.

There is every probability that there is intelligent, and probably more intelligent life than humanity in this galaxy, as well as the rest of the universe.

science.howstuffworks.com...

These discoveries have served as an affirmation for those involved with the search for extraterrestrial intelligent life, or SETI. Harvard physicist and SETI leader Paul Horowitz boldly stated in a 1996 interview with TIME Magazine, "Intelligent life in the universe? Guaranteed. Intelligent life in our galaxy? So overwhelmingly likely that I'd give you almost any odds you'd like."

Additionally, if ever there was proof of a conspiracy, since joining ATS, over the years I have found more and more real information hidden from google and other search engines on the real statistics on such things and it being replaced with conjecture comments from scientists mocking the idea and constant mentions of the Fermi paradox.

I personally choose to seek the truth, and statistically the truth is, there are most probably extraterrestrials more advanced than humanity in this galaxy and in the universe. I also have my own experiences that prove this to me.

Originally posted by LoveisanArt
Im calling out all the Non-believers and skeptics personally; to understand why they do not believe in Extraterrestrial and other unknown phenomena.

Why dont you believe starships, extraterrestrial life, energy, mind power, and multiple dimensions of reality? What makes you belive these things do not exist in all of creation?

You so called skeptics and debunkers, are trying to falsify something you have not experienced or perceived; this being very intelligent alien races, technology beyond our comprehension. You judge things which you have not experienced, with what you have. If it doesnt make sense its fake.

As a skeptic has not perceived an alien or starship; it must not exist. All this skeptic knows is everything it has; seen, heard, touched, smelled, tasted or thought.. Aliens do not mingle in everyday reality with humans, therefore they do not exist ...

The "I haven't seen it, so I cant believe it" mentality.

This is why it confuses me with people who do not belive in extraterrestrial life, multiple universes/dimensions .. you delete an aspect of reality - out of your perception OF reality. Therefore you shall not experience. WHY?

We think we can explain everything, because we think we know everything there is to know. This is why aliens do not exist - we dont know about them..hmm.

You expect extraterrestrials to LAND on our planet and present themselves to humanity..??

we think we are ready for contact; we are "intelligent" and mature enough to meet with these other races..

It doesnt work that way with developing life, hu-man.

The REAL extraterrestrials would know better then that... they do not perceive reality like WE DO. Our perception is fixed based on limited knowledge and falling slave to the mind (money, religion, GOD..etc). We cannot operate on their level yet, until we break free from our mental habits.

To me, it's quite obvious they exist; they are here, they always have been.. the word 'they' in this context is referencing to countless races of extraterrestrials who exist in the unknown universe(s).

But..

I'm interested in why YOU don't believe these things exist. What is it within YOU that believes ETs, UFOs, spirits etc.. DO NOT exist? Do you dis-believe because you fear the unknown? Or because you know for a fact it's 'impossible' they can exist?

I'm sure these so called skeptics and non-believers won't even respond

that says enough for the rest of us

Like I said, I'm just curious as to what exactly it is, you think when it comes to these phenomena? Why it is you do not believe.

Debunkers, why do you debunk? Skeptics, why are you skeptical? Non believers, what is it that you dont belive and why?
Inviting all opinions to the topic. If you are on the fence about these things, you can express that as well.

I hope this thread drags some attention, this does seem like a popular topic on ATS; its interesting to know WHY people do or do NOT believe. So please share!

~ Love is an art

I don't believe as there's no credible evidence.

On the OTHER hand there's hundreds of credible cases of faked cases. And mass hysteria is real. And the governement obviously does have some degree of secret aircraft. And there's tons of odd weather phenomena.

So - no good "pro" evidence.
Lots of fake stuff.
Lots of explanations what what most have seen.

Faith in something with no proof is the same nonsense that religions expect - no thanks.

reply to post by theabsolutetruth

I do believe.

I think that those that don't, choose not to, consciously or subconsciously because of various factors.

You're simply wrong. Please go back and actually read the thread. There is a great difference between belief and knowledge. You are free to believe anything you want, but belief is a barrier to knowledge.

Originally posted by LoveisanArt

Originally posted by yourmaker
Aliens are real because we are real.

the distance of space travel combined with the likelihood of technological prowess while maintaining a moral society is just too much relative to our own species..

sure we can send a robot to mars but that is no where near the same capability as moving a few people there.
add in the distances between stars and it's laughable..

You have not experienced reality off the curvature of the Earth, you speak in a manner that feels when humanity was born the universe was born..

Alien beings who were operating like we are today, but eons and eons ago. HAve deffinately mastered space/time travel.

But you havent experienced this, so you dont understand it, so it cannot exist. Science cant travel to the Pleiades in a few hours, so its impossible... until science figures it out.. (which could take eons and eons).,

So debunking and skepticism is based on what we have experienced, what we know, what we have perceived.
Since you havent experienced ETs and space/time travel it cant be apart of reality, what we calll "Life"?

hmm.. yea mentality like that makes it easy to control an entire population

Stop telling others what they have and haven't experienced, what they think exist and don't.

Isn't that what you believe non believers do?

Have you seen the movie "Red Lights", take a watch its about a couple of professional skeptics and please stop speaking for others, it shows such a lack of intelligence and I know you're smarter than that

Originally posted by BigfootNZ

Originally posted by LoveisanArt
The first posts I recieve of "skeptics" is full of "I have not seen". This is exactly what I said in the OP. I didnt ask for sarcasm or anything, quite frankly you all went off topic..

WHY dont you belive. Just because you havent seen? Or something in your mind or consciousness that believes its impossible for it to exist?

Your individual Life, your personality; what is it that makes you think the life you are living doesnt involve other realms or beings?

The topic isnt about lack of evidence; its about you personally, what you feel about this aspect of reality.

Errr

Originally posted by LoveisanArt
Im calling out all the Non-believers and skeptics personally; to understand why they do not believe in Extraterrestrial and other unknown phenomena.

You asked this and they responded with 'They require hard evidence' ... that is their 'Why'. What they feel about this 'aspect of reality' (which is a loaded statement on your behalf given it assumes UFO's ARE real, which even for a believer like myself CANT be proven to the standards required) is that its untrue because to date the evidence doesnt full fill the criteria they need to believe...

To come back and stamp your feet at their responses when they gave you the response you asked of them is very poor.

The same can be said of yourself, you believe emphatically without real proof and youve proven yourself to get angry at others that dont share that view... No true skeptic will participate now since they think logically (which is good) and your response shows to argue or discuss logically with you would be fruitless.

And this is coming from a fellow believer.

Well said, bigfoot!
I'm a skeptical believer, I think science has proven to us that they must be out there.
However I don't think "UFOs" are aliens. If they were, they wouldn't be "UFOs".
UFO sightings can normally be explained, there's not many that can't be.
As for those few that are unexplained, they're most likely military black projects.

Seems like you're about to learn some of ATS' most important lessons, Op.
Basically, no one "knows" anything here.
This sites about speculation and investigation, if you come here claiming you know stuff about aliens etc, you're probably wrong. Thats not my opinion, that's basic knowledge.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by theabsolutetruth

 

I do believe.

I think that those that don't, choose not to, consciously or subconsciously because of various factors.

You're simply wrong. Please go back and actually read the thread. There is a great difference between belief and knowledge. You are free to believe anything you want, but belief is a barrier to knowledge.

I do not need to read the entire thread at all. I replied to the OP. This is a valid opinion whether you like it or not. People choose whether or not to believe.

Do you not agree?