Why don't you believe? (@Non-Believers and Skeptics)

I think I will repeat it one last time - without solid evidence, nothing can be stated ti be a fact, however whenever there is enough data that is not considered lies, and when it is in secrecy, no one can say for sure whether something exists or not - meaning cannot say for sure it does not exist or it isn't happening. And here is where empirical evidence fails - you may not have the evidence doesn't mean someone else doesn,'t therefore, you can't conclude with certainty that something is non existent.

reply to post by Imtor


So how do you go about proving something doesn't exist then?

reply to post by LoveisanArt


It's simple. Believing in something does not make it true. You go on about the higher mind, dimensions and so forth. You seem to believe that because science cannot prove or disprove something that it must exist. You also avoid questions posed at you. I have seen many ask you to show how you know of the existence of the many things you claim in your OP. You ask for much and provide little to nothing in return.

What I and others believe or don't believe is irrelevant, is it not? You don't want to know why people don't believe. What you want to do is talk down to folk. Treat them like they are idiots because they don't agree with you. I could only get to page 4 of this thread before I had to stop. Your pompous attitude and the way you treat the people you reply to is childish, at best. How can someone that claims to be a spiritual person treat others the way you do? Apparently your spiritual disciplines and meditation training did not instill humility in you.

This is my opinion on the topic. You invited all to express their opinion in your OP, after all.

Originally posted by My_Reality
reply to post by LoveisanArt

 

It's simple. Believing in something does not make it true. You go on about the higher mind, dimensions and so forth. You seem to believe that because science cannot prove or disprove something that it must exist. You also avoid questions posed at you. I have seen many ask you to show how you know of the existence of the many things you claim in your OP. You ask for much and provide little to nothing in return.

What I and others believe or don't believe is irrelevant, is it not? You don't want to know why people don't believe. What you want to do is talk down to folk. Treat them like they are idiots because they don't agree with you. I could only get to page 4 of this thread before I had to stop. Your pompous attitude and the way you treat the people you reply to is childish, at best. How can someone that claims to be a spiritual person treat others the way you do? Apparently your spiritual disciplines and meditation training did not instill humility in you.

This is my opinion on the topic. You invited all to express their opinion in your OP, after all.

I think you summed that up quite nicely

Originally posted by Imtor
I think I will repeat it one last time - without solid evidence, nothing can be stated ti be a fact, however whenever there is enough data that is not considered lies, and when it is in secrecy, no one can say for sure whether something exists or not - meaning cannot say for sure it does not exist or it isn't happening. And here is where empirical evidence fails - you may not have the evidence doesn't mean someone else doesn,'t therefore, you can't conclude with certainty that something is non existent.

If you follow that line of thought to it's logical conclusion then you end up with 'everything is and nothing isn't'.

There has to be a line drawn somewhere. There is no better tool for determining the validity of 'reality' than empirical evidence.

reply to post by LoveisanArt


like so many other believers,you have failed to grasp the skeptic point of view
immediately.most of us believe in aliens, other dimensions, alien civilizations etc etc etc.

what we don't believe is that they are visiting earth.
lights in the sky just don't cut it for most normal folks, folks that WANT to believe
seem to think lights in the sky are alien craft.. c'mon why would ET arrive in small illuminated
craft, when in reality an alien visitation would be purely stealthy [logically)

nothing i have ever read, experienced has convinced me that ET is here.

once you lose the ability to believe and start looking factually the whole ufo scenario
crumbles.
not saying that in the history of our planet aliens have never been here, but i am highly
skeptical.

people i once thought to be genuine researchers have turned out to be money making frauds.
sorry i just don't buy it anymore.


laptop keyboard has gone faulty sorry about the bad punctuation etc,

Originally posted by LoveisanArt

Originally posted by Pauligirl
reply to post by LoveisanArt

 

Thing is, not too many people on here deny the possible existence of aliens–out there. It’s a large universe. NASA would love to find proof of extra-terrestrial life. They wouldn’t have to worry about funding anymore. But to take it as a fact because of something you believe, no, I don’t think so.

What causes one to believe in something? To me; its an experience that is undeniable. Dont take my word for it, take it from the guys who are taking your money :O

"its an experience that is undeniable"
And the problem is, it's YOUR experience, not mine.
The internet is anonymous. For all I know, you could be some batspit crazy person, prone to hallucinations. Without something to back it up, all you have here is your opinion.
I'm not sure what you meant about "take it from the guys who are taking your money." If you meant NASA, well, I don't have a problem with them. Pretty smart bunch of folks.

reply to post by LoveisanArt


Why am I required to even believe in anything? Believing in something requires FAITH. Faith and such does not belong to the 21st century. Faith belongs to the hay days, back then when nothing could have been explained in a logical and scientific manner. Thankfully we have come long way since last witch hunt in 18th century. UFOs, Extraterrestrials, Ghosts, Demons or any other paranormal experiences cannot be explained in a logical and or scientific way thus such phenomena is merely speculation at best. Even in a scientific field there are many theories and speculation which go unproven until today simply because there aren't enough evidence to say without a doubt their theories are correct. Personal experience is NOT evidence. I have had a handful personal paranormal experiences myself including "classic alien abduction", shadow beings" and such. But these are merely PERSONAL experiences which cannot be proven in any scientific and or even logic manner so not until we have measurable evidence can we claim these are real phenomena.

Originally posted by AccessDenied
Ufo's exist. At least, they are unidentified to most of us. They are, for the most part, ships built to transcend space/ time by HUMANS who were given the technology by beings from a parallel dimension. Some would call these beings "aliens".
Tis my belief that during world war two, a "tear" was created in the veil between worlds. Since then we have been visited by "others" who shared their technology with us...good and bad. They also shared something else.
They showed humans how to travel through space and time, including the past. Our path has been altered by those who have gone back in time and re-written history to suit their own needs. It has been written in stone, in words and pictures. ancient aliens do not resemble "greys" or "nordics" or "reptilians". They resemble man in a spacesuit.
There's food for thought.

edit on 24-11-2012 by AccessDenied because: (no reason given)

This has to be the single greatest post I have read since joining ATS. Food for thought? I would consider it a feast! Thank you

If you think this is the greatest post since you read ATS then I am sorry for you and ATS. Such posts are one of the many downfalls of ATS. I know ATS has been fighting against con artists, hoaxers and such but unfortunately this place still have too many gullible, brainwashed cultist. I don't know how else to call them. Believers? Maybe. There is no place for faith, religion, cults and such ion the 21st century and I hope one day people will look at such sites like ATS and have a laugh at how stupid some people were.

Originally posted by Mickles

Originally posted by AccessDenied
Ufo's exist. At least, they are unidentified to most of us. They are, for the most part, ships built to transcend space/ time by HUMANS who were given the technology by beings from a parallel dimension. Some would call these beings "aliens".
Tis my belief that during world war two, a "tear" was created in the veil between worlds. Since then we have been visited by "others" who shared their technology with us...good and bad. They also shared something else.
They showed humans how to travel through space and time, including the past. Our path has been altered by those who have gone back in time and re-written history to suit their own needs. It has been written in stone, in words and pictures. ancient aliens do not resemble "greys" or "nordics" or "reptilians". They resemble man in a spacesuit.
There's food for thought.

edit on 24-11-2012 by AccessDenied because: (no reason given)

This has to be the single greatest post I have read since joining ATS. Food for thought? I would consider it a feast! Thank you

Originally posted by spacedoubt
I'm a skeptic.
Though I believe in the possibility of many of those things is possible.
The proofs, for many of them are often very weak.
My biggest gripe are the folks that flat-out REFUSE to look at other possibilities.

Sometimes that UFO is simply a plastic grocery bag, lofted into the air by thermal air currents.
I've watched a bag for about an hour, that was picked up by a huge dust devil. I used to live near a desert playa that, in the summer time, would develop dust devils, hundreds of feet high. They would often pick up light objects and loft them into the clear blue sky. If a cloud passed in front of the sun, the whirlwind would literally collapse in a few seconds. Yet the bag would stay aloft for hours. looking very suspicious.

I'm one of those Occams Razor skeptics. Trusting the simplest explanation, yet still leaving my mind open to other possibilities.

I'd like to see more discussions where people were actually DISCUSSING, rather than getting defensive about their position.

If someone can believe a white dot traveled light years, and is full of otherwordly critters. Why can it not just be a plastic bag?

I feel similar to what you're saying. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I consider myself open minded. I'm skeptical. I would think if there were all of these things regarding aliens and such, there would be a lot more attention by mainstream media. Please don't tell me MSM covers everything up. With the internet technology available and global communications, it would be impossible to cover this kind of thing up. Often, there is little to no physical/video evidence to back up claims, just many fantastic stories. I love sci fi, read a lot of Star Trek and that. I consider it entertaining, but I do know the difference between reality and fiction. So much of this alien/UFO stuff is great fiction, but fiction it is. Show me some real proof that can be corrorborated and maybe I won't be so skeptical. Like I said before, I'm open minded.

Exactly! Believers, Conspiracy theorists and such would want you to believe there is some sort of a cover up by the main stream media. I doubt anyone is watching mainstream news these days. Old folks probably still do but younger generation, they just don't care. Not about UFOs and not about what is going on in the world in general. Most people download or stream tv shows and movies today. No one really cares what's on the news today because they can always read news on the internet. And since internet is available to most people and is not as censored as conspiracy theorist would like you to believe then anyone with an average intellect can find news outlet they feel conformable with.

Originally posted by ChiefD

Originally posted by spacedoubt
I'm a skeptic.
Though I believe in the possibility of many of those things is possible.
The proofs, for many of them are often very weak.
My biggest gripe are the folks that flat-out REFUSE to look at other possibilities.

Sometimes that UFO is simply a plastic grocery bag, lofted into the air by thermal air currents.
I've watched a bag for about an hour, that was picked up by a huge dust devil. I used to live near a desert playa that, in the summer time, would develop dust devils, hundreds of feet high. They would often pick up light objects and loft them into the clear blue sky. If a cloud passed in front of the sun, the whirlwind would literally collapse in a few seconds. Yet the bag would stay aloft for hours. looking very suspicious.

I'm one of those Occams Razor skeptics. Trusting the simplest explanation, yet still leaving my mind open to other possibilities.

I'd like to see more discussions where people were actually DISCUSSING, rather than getting defensive about their position.

If someone can believe a white dot traveled light years, and is full of otherwordly critters. Why can it not just be a plastic bag?

I feel similar to what you're saying. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I consider myself open minded. I'm skeptical. I would think if there were all of these things regarding aliens and such, there would be a lot more attention by mainstream media. Please don't tell me MSM covers everything up. With the internet technology available and global communications, it would be impossible to cover this kind of thing up. Often, there is little to no physical/video evidence to back up claims, just many fantastic stories. I love sci fi, read a lot of Star Trek and that. I consider it entertaining, but I do know the difference between reality and fiction. So much of this alien/UFO stuff is great fiction, but fiction it is. Show me some real proof that can be corrorborated and maybe I won't be so skeptical. Like I said before, I'm open minded.

reply to post by My_Reality


I have not asked for anything.. except honesty. You havent followed the thread obviously; I have answered many things, a lot which are the same things different context.

I have provided my "proof" or reasonings as to why I believe. What I have seen in my mind and with my two eyes. Not everyone has experienced the things I have. Prior to my experiences I was a strict skeptic as well. On the fence of the subject; but I always used logic and reasoning to solve any situation.

My experiences were not always physical and had no logic or reasoning known to mankind. So this is why I "believe". Not through some youtube videos, pictures, tv shows or because NASA. Because Ive had personal experiences.
The point I brought up about humanity not understanding the mind, not using it to its full capacity, is the reason why people do not experience such things. Im not saying because you believe it you will experience it. But I am saying if you delete the aspect out of your life without a true reason to, you will never experience it.

All these things being thrown at me; are just ways for you so called non believers to keep dishing out attention while avoiding it yourself. I've experienced and seen things; Im not on the fence. This thread is not even about WHY I believe. Its about why YOU DONT.

Dont take my words out of justice or context. There is far more to this "reality" then you or I currently understanding. More then science understands.. Its not just the physical aspect to "Life", what goes on inside of us as we operate sunconsciously?

What part of us can honestly say we are progressed and advanced enough to finally make claims that ETs cannot exist?

Originally posted by stanislav
Exactly! Believers, Conspiracy theorists and such would want you to believe there is some sort of a cover up by the main stream media. I doubt anyone is watching mainstream news these days. Old folks probably still do but younger generation, they just don't care. Not about UFOs and not about what is going on in the world in general. Most people download or stream tv shows and movies today. No one really cares what's on the news today because they can always read news on the internet. And since internet is available to most people and is not as censored as conspiracy theorist would like you to believe then anyone with an average intellect can find news outlet they feel conformable with.

Originally posted by ChiefD

Originally posted by spacedoubt
I'm a skeptic.
Though I believe in the possibility of many of those things is possible.
The proofs, for many of them are often very weak.
My biggest gripe are the folks that flat-out REFUSE to look at other possibilities.

Sometimes that UFO is simply a plastic grocery bag, lofted into the air by thermal air currents.
I've watched a bag for about an hour, that was picked up by a huge dust devil. I used to live near a desert playa that, in the summer time, would develop dust devils, hundreds of feet high. They would often pick up light objects and loft them into the clear blue sky. If a cloud passed in front of the sun, the whirlwind would literally collapse in a few seconds. Yet the bag would stay aloft for hours. looking very suspicious.

I'm one of those Occams Razor skeptics. Trusting the simplest explanation, yet still leaving my mind open to other possibilities.

I'd like to see more discussions where people were actually DISCUSSING, rather than getting defensive about their position.

If someone can believe a white dot traveled light years, and is full of otherwordly critters. Why can it not just be a plastic bag?

I feel similar to what you're saying. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I consider myself open minded. I'm skeptical. I would think if there were all of these things regarding aliens and such, there would be a lot more attention by mainstream media. Please don't tell me MSM covers everything up. With the internet technology available and global communications, it would be impossible to cover this kind of thing up. Often, there is little to no physical/video evidence to back up claims, just many fantastic stories. I love sci fi, read a lot of Star Trek and that. I consider it entertaining, but I do know the difference between reality and fiction. So much of this alien/UFO stuff is great fiction, but fiction it is. Show me some real proof that can be corrorborated and maybe I won't be so skeptical. Like I said before, I'm open minded.

Yes exactly; this is the behavior we have on our minds; we put them on autopilot because everything we need to survive and think of is right in our reach (this is a reference to those in society). We dont have to think because all the thinking has been done for us, we do not have to hunt and grow crops, its all done for us, we do not have to travel and get water, we turn on the facet.
We do not need to use our minds because in society if your mind functions beyond personality and standard knowledge, you are dubbed "crazy" and immediately forced prescription to enforce this crazy.

But if you hush up and goto work like a good little sheep, you will never have to think outside of the box. This is why society was established and constructed the way it is today. To make mankind blindly walk the physical plane, meanwhile their minds are on autopilot.

They never take the chance to wake up and figure out what reality and peception is! If its accepted in society, it must be true! ...

Originally posted by Pauligirl

Originally posted by LoveisanArt

Originally posted by Pauligirl
reply to post by LoveisanArt

 

Thing is, not too many people on here deny the possible existence of aliens–out there. It’s a large universe. NASA would love to find proof of extra-terrestrial life. They wouldn’t have to worry about funding anymore. But to take it as a fact because of something you believe, no, I don’t think so.

What causes one to believe in something? To me; its an experience that is undeniable. Dont take my word for it, take it from the guys who are taking your money :O

"its an experience that is undeniable"
And the problem is, it's YOUR experience, not mine.
The internet is anonymous. For all I know, you could be some batspit crazy person, prone to hallucinations. Without something to back it up, all you have here is your opinion.
I'm not sure what you meant about "take it from the guys who are taking your money." If you meant NASA, well, I don't have a problem with them. Pretty smart bunch of folks.

Two things robot lady;

1, Im probably much more sane then you are. Its your perception of who is crazy and who is not.. calling someone crazy doesnt make you look anymore intelligent.

2, Its good you dont have a problem with it. Thats why you slave, and your slaving pays for their 8 digit salary.

No ADVANCED beings would slave routinely for a system that is corrupt and not out to benefit its people. Only a slave race with no idea what reality is, would waste their lifetime repeating the same mistakes over and over...

Originally posted by otie1
People who need physical proof will never understand. 95% of the population are bred like ants. To work for the "queen" and never question order. They don't question or think critically so they disbelieve everything that is unexplainable. They will never understand so it is pointless to ask this.

Maybe if the president said to the public aliens where real people would believe, but thats only because most people cant think for themselves. They need outside influence to live.

This is exactly the point of the thread!! Congradulations for being honest with yourself at least.

IF PRESIDENT OBAMA, came out and said "extraterestrials exist". . without any evidence; all of a sudden 250, 000,000 people will belive in their existence. Even if the Vatican stated the same thing with no evidence!

People dont realize how their perception of reality is so easily influenced. Yet they think they are ready for contact with races who serve no system, no god and are no slaves to the mind?

When we USE OUR minds to their MAX potential; we become EVOLVED and ADVANCED. Then our PERCEPTION of reality is more clear, and we can have more confidence in saying what exists and what does not exist. possibly even the chance to make contact with beings who operate on this higher level of consciousness.

End of story right there people

reply to post by LoveisanArt


I don't think you understand what a skeptic or debunker is. Most people on this site don't. A skeptic is someone who is openminded and could swing either way, but needs proof and more information for one or the other. A debunker has proof that something is false or a hoax. Both are avid truthseekers and don't believe every silly thing they're told. They aren't the enemy.

What a bunch of baloney!

No president would be allowed to come on live television and LIE about the existence of another advanced race of beings. People will not simply believe even if it was their president. If a president indeed came out alone with such grandiose claim on national television, people would start questioning his sanity. However if there was indeed a real contact made between human race and some advanced or not so advanced alien race and president came live on national television he wouldn't be alone. There is going to be an entire array of scientific team to validate his statement.

You are greatly mistaken to think that people are naive and are clos minded and that is why they do not believe in UFOs and such. In fact it quite the opposite really. Your point of view goes like this - it's the world, not me. Well the fact of the matter there is something wrong with YOU and your outlook about the world that makes you believe something wrong with society, the world. You are simply Delusional. I speak from PERSONAL experience. I've been delusional for over 10 years. It's takes a lot of effort to face reality. People who want to believe and are obsessed with aliens and such are WEAK minded and simply cannot face reality. You literally convince yourself to believe in things they do not exist or have no real proof.

Originally posted by LoveisanArt

Originally posted by otie1
People who need physical proof will never understand. 95% of the population are bred like ants. To work for the "queen" and never question order. They don't question or think critically so they disbelieve everything that is unexplainable. They will never understand so it is pointless to ask this.

Maybe if the president said to the public aliens where real people would believe, but thats only because most people cant think for themselves. They need outside influence to live.

This is exactly the point of the thread!! Congradulations for being honest with yourself at least.

IF PRESIDENT OBAMA, came out and said "extraterestrials exist". . without any evidence; all of a sudden 250, 000,000 people will belive in their existence. Even if the Vatican stated the same thing with no evidence!

People dont realize how their perception of reality is so easily influenced. Yet they think they are ready for contact with races who serve no system, no god and are no slaves to the mind?

When we USE OUR minds to their MAX potential; we become EVOLVED and ADVANCED. Then our PERCEPTION of reality is more clear, and we can have more confidence in saying what exists and what does not exist. possibly even the chance to make contact with beings who operate on this higher level of consciousness.

End of story right there people

You are complete wrong once again. The world is NOT on autopilot. If it was then you wouldn't using this message board to broadcast to millions of people across the world. The internet is direct menstruation of our society advancing. We do it everyday in almost every aspect in our life. And that includes humility and selflessness. Somehow you believe that facing reality is being on autopilot while believing in aliens and other unproven events is not being on autopilot. Where is your LOGIC? Oh yeah I think the world LOGIC is not part of your reality. It is Faith! Good luck with your endeavor to convert sane minds into believers! I guess you need more believers to validate your own faith. We are not sheep like you. We have DISCERNMENT, you don't!

Originally posted by LoveisanArt

Originally posted by stanislav
Exactly! Believers, Conspiracy theorists and such would want you to believe there is some sort of a cover up by the main stream media. I doubt anyone is watching mainstream news these days. Old folks probably still do but younger generation, they just don't care. Not about UFOs and not about what is going on in the world in general. Most people download or stream tv shows and movies today. No one really cares what's on the news today because they can always read news on the internet. And since internet is available to most people and is not as censored as conspiracy theorist would like you to believe then anyone with an average intellect can find news outlet they feel conformable with.

Originally posted by ChiefD

Originally posted by spacedoubt
I'm a skeptic.
Though I believe in the possibility of many of those things is possible.
The proofs, for many of them are often very weak.
My biggest gripe are the folks that flat-out REFUSE to look at other possibilities.

Sometimes that UFO is simply a plastic grocery bag, lofted into the air by thermal air currents.
I've watched a bag for about an hour, that was picked up by a huge dust devil. I used to live near a desert playa that, in the summer time, would develop dust devils, hundreds of feet high. They would often pick up light objects and loft them into the clear blue sky. If a cloud passed in front of the sun, the whirlwind would literally collapse in a few seconds. Yet the bag would stay aloft for hours. looking very suspicious.

I'm one of those Occams Razor skeptics. Trusting the simplest explanation, yet still leaving my mind open to other possibilities.

I'd like to see more discussions where people were actually DISCUSSING, rather than getting defensive about their position.

If someone can believe a white dot traveled light years, and is full of otherwordly critters. Why can it not just be a plastic bag?

I feel similar to what you're saying. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I consider myself open minded. I'm skeptical. I would think if there were all of these things regarding aliens and such, there would be a lot more attention by mainstream media. Please don't tell me MSM covers everything up. With the internet technology available and global communications, it would be impossible to cover this kind of thing up. Often, there is little to no physical/video evidence to back up claims, just many fantastic stories. I love sci fi, read a lot of Star Trek and that. I consider it entertaining, but I do know the difference between reality and fiction. So much of this alien/UFO stuff is great fiction, but fiction it is. Show me some real proof that can be corrorborated and maybe I won't be so skeptical. Like I said before, I'm open minded.

Yes exactly; this is the behavior we have on our minds; we put them on autopilot because everything we need to survive and think of is right in our reach (this is a reference to those in society). We dont have to think because all the thinking has been done for us, we do not have to hunt and grow crops, its all done for us, we do not have to travel and get water, we turn on the facet.
We do not need to use our minds because in society if your mind functions beyond personality and standard knowledge, you are dubbed "crazy" and immediately forced prescription to enforce this crazy.

But if you hush up and goto work like a good little sheep, you will never have to think outside of the box. This is why society was established and constructed the way it is today. To make mankind blindly walk the physical plane, meanwhile their minds are on autopilot.

They never take the chance to wake up and figure out what reality and peception is! If its accepted in society, it must be true! ...

reply to post by LoveisanArt





What in essence you have provided is YOUR 'proof' from YOUR mind and your two eyes

That is personel to YOU only....Others see things in their own minds and with their own eyes

which are unlike yours and personel to them only

BUT...There is NO PROOF there at all. Only personel experiences which by no stretch

of imagination constitutes 'PROOF'


Neither can i see as you have claimed any logic or reasoning in what you have said. You

are confusing Faith with Fact


Unlike your view of people living in slavery I am living and enjoying life to the full and NOT

waiting to be rescued by some entity from your imagination who you assume is endowed

with virtues you have projected on to them, when they possibly are barbaric and only here

looking for food..