20 Israeli Appeals Ignored by U.N.

reply to post by Daedal


This is more a rhetorical quesion, but i think none the less an important one.

Why is it, that when information is presented here on ATS, to point out bias or imbalance of any faction involed in the Israeli- Palestinian conflict, it often happens in the same biased and imbalanced way that it claims to expose?

The OP contains a number of erroneous and misleading statements.

The Goldstone report:

There is no doubt that after the publication of the report, that the Israeli Government regarded as 'highly damaging' and 'a threat', Richard Goldstone was put under immense pressure.

From the moment the Goldstone Report was published in September 2009, its opponents have worked tirelessly to undermine it. The 452-page investigation of the 2008–09 Gaza conflict by a United Nations Human Rights Council fact-finding mission accused Israel and Hamas of war crimes for attacks on civilians, but its overall thrust was harshly critical of the Israeli onslaught, which took as many as 1,400 Palestinian lives, including those of more than 300 children.

The US Congress denounced the report for allegedly denying Israel’s right of self-defense (it didn’t); Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu shortlisted the report, along with Hamas rockets and a nuclear-armed Iran, as one of the three main threats to the Jewish state; and Alan Dershowitz accused the report’s chief author, Richard Goldstone, of being a traitor to the Jewish people.

As recently as March, Eli Yishai, Israel’s bellicose interior minister, wrote to Goldstone charging his report with giving “legitimacy” to terrorist organizations and “calm[ing] murderers without a conscience” when they murder children.

source

Within hours of Goldstone’s op-ed, those who had been gunning for the report all along gleefully pronounced its demise. They characterized the judge’s essay as a recantation, and they declared the report mortally flawed. Netanyahu demanded that the UN cancel the document.

The State Department followed suit, with UN ambassador Susan Rice stating that she wanted the report simply to “disappear.” The Israel Action Network, a multi-million-dollar effort led by the Jewish Federations of North America to massage Israel’s image and rebut “delegitimization” efforts, promptly launched a campaign to circulate the op-ed to as many “opinion molders” as possible.

Eminent figures have stepped up to affirm the validity of the original document, including, most notably, the three commissioners who co-authored the report with Goldstone: retired Irish colonel Desmond Travers, Pakistani lawyer Hina Jilani, and legal scholar Christine Chinkin.

In a devastating rebuke published in the Guardian on April 14, the three commissioners defended the validity of the report and dismissed critics who have sought to capitalize on Goldstone’s essay as cynically misrepresenting the facts.

A few days after his Washington Post op-ed was published, that members of the Israeli Goverment 'celebrated' as a victory, Goldstone himself broke the silence and gave an interview to the AP, stating:

South African jurist Richard Goldstone said Tuesday that he did not plan to seek nullification of his highly critical U.N. report on Israel's 2008-2009 offensive in the Gaza Strip and asserted that claims to the contrary by Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai were false. . .

"As appears from the Washington Post article, information subsequent to publication of the report did meet with the view that one correction should be made with regard to intentionality on the part of Israel," the judge said. "Further information as a result of domestic investigations could lead to further reconsideration, but as i presently advised I have no reason to believe any part of the report needs to be reconsidered at this time."

source

Statements made by members of the Israeli Government:

On 6 January 2009, during the military operations in Gaza, Deputy Prime Minister Eli Yishai stated:

“It [should be] possible to destroy Gaza, so they will understand not to mess with us.” He added that “it is a great opportunity to demolish thousands of houses of all the terrorists, so they will think twice before they launch rockets.”

“I hope the operation will come to an end with great achievements and with the complete destruction of terrorism and Hamas. In my opinion, they should be razed to the ground, so thousands of houses, tunnels and industries will be demolished.” He added that “residents of the South are strengthening us, so the operation will continue until a total destruction of Hamas [is achieved].”

reply to post by Daedal


continued

In 2002, following terrorist attacks on Israelis, Lieberman called for military attacks on Palestinian civilian and commercial targets, saying:

"If it were up to me I would notify the Palestinian Authority tomorrow at ten in the morning we would bomb all their places of business in Ramallah, for example."..."I would not hesitate to send the Israeli army into all of Area A [the area of the West Bank ostensibly under Palestinian Authority control] for 48 hours.

Destroy the foundation of all the authority's military infrastructure, all of the police buildings, the arsenals, all the posts of the security forces... not leave one stone on another. Destroy everything."

Hamas and Hizbullah are terrorist organisations - in the clearest definition available- without any regard for human life. Indiscriminately targeting civilian infrastructure and intentionally harming civillians are acts of terror, what is exactly what the Israeli Goverment is doing and no distortion of facts or redefining it as 'acts of self-defense' will change that.

The failure of the U.N. to hold to account the militants firing rockets into Israel and indiscriminately killing anyone in the way, while condemning Israel for protecting themselves from attack is preposterous, especially after numerous pleas this year alone.

You can only twist the facts so much, before it becomes deliberately lying.

source

Collective Punishment

Dahiya doctrine

Goldstone under pressure

reply to post by talklikeapirat


So what?

Goldstone admitted that his report would never stand up in a court of law due to the failure to prove intent.

reply to post by Deetermined


No, he has not. He just referred to the "limited scope of the fact-finding mission, noting that it was not a judicial proceeding".

You will have hard time finding a source that is not trying to twist that statement into your claim and at the same fails to mention: the personal attacks on Goldstone and his family, the pressure put on members of Committee from pro-Israeli organisations and lobby groups, the concerted efforts from the Israeli Goverment and the US State Department to discredit the report, etc.

But please, do try anyway, who says what can sometimes be equally revealing.

UN Watch

Goldstone report

I'm glad you brought up the Goldstone Report.

Dr. Norman Finkelstein on Goldstone Report 2009

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by infowarrior9970

 

Israel may be the ethnic-nation state of Jews, but since it's a liberal democracy, all other groups of people are welcome to live in it, thrive in it, and have full democratic and human rights within it.

no they are not.

The implementation by Jewish supremacists of Talmudic hate literature has caused untold suffering throughout history and now, in occupied Palestine, it is used as a justification for the mass murder of Palestinian civilians. The Talmud specifically defines all who are not Jews as non-human animals.

Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."

Moed Kattan 17a: If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.

Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."

Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.

Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.

Rosh Hashanah 17a. Christians (minnim) and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.

Sanhedrin 54b. A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.

Baba Mezia 59b. A rabbi debates God and defeats Him. God admits the rabbi won the debate.

No one can possibly be equal with them when if an invisible man in the sky deemed it their land and their rabbi's can outsmart said god & he has promised everyone else to them as slaves.

and OP, if you do not take the religious side into account you are leaving out the most important facts.. therefore you obviously have nothing pertinent to this lop sided conflict.

also, I like how the UN must listen to Israel but you link where Israel has ignored all 65 plus attempted resolutions towards their crimes. nice. such as this one.

Originally posted by jimmyx

american indians say their gods gave them the land of america....so what do you think about american indians aquiring rockets, automatic weapons, and starting a war with washington to expel all of the europeans, asians, and latinos to get them off of their land???

if you really want to go there.. ok

What the state of Israel / UN did in 1948 .... is the equivalent of the First Nations American Indians taking the land BACK from usa & canada.....then it would be usa/canada to start firing rockets at the Indians.

If nations could go back 1700+ years and claim ancestral ownership ...than what would happen to all the colonists/immigrants in America??

they'd be sent PACKING back to Europe or wherever else they came from.

the claim is ridicoulous ..you know it & I know it.

...only difference is you DON'T know why you're supporting it...you just are.

Originally posted by reeferman

Rosh Hashanah 17a. Christians (minnim) and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.

I'm glad you brought this up.

Because it needs to be talked about openly. During this 2012 Gaza massacre ..on the social networks.. I seen hordes of American Christians in FULL SUPPORT of Israel/Jews.

which is fine. people group & band together during times of conflict & PICK SIDES.

but what has me concerned, worried, & perplexed... Is that the Pro-Israeli Christian supporters have no idea what the orthodox Jews think about the followers of Jesus Christ. (maybe they should google it)

Perhaps the Christians forget that it was the Pharisees who sent Jesus Christ to the Romans for punishment.

I dunno ... I ask Christian ATS members this:

WHY do you support a group of people who sent the Son of God (Jesus Christ) to the WORST crucifixion punishment known to all mankind?

Is it because Israel needs USA support...and because alot of USA war supporters are Christian that they pretend to like the Christ Supporters for their tax dollars???????

I just find the whole thing really PERPLEXING from a non-religious OUTSIDE perspective.

reply to post by talklikeapirat

No, he has not. He just referred to the "limited scope of the fact-finding mission, noting that it was not a judicial proceeding".

Really?

How do you put the words "limited scope" in the same sentence with "fact-finding mission"?

Limited scope can only result in limited facts.

Originally posted by infowarrior9970

Originally posted by reeferman

Rosh Hashanah 17a. Christians (minnim) and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.

I'm glad you brought this up.

Because it needs to be talked about openly. During this 2012 Gaza massacre ..on the social networks.. I seen hordes of American Christians in FULL SUPPORT of Israel/Jews.

which is fine. people group & band together during times of conflict & PICK SIDES.

but what has me concerned, worried, & perplexed... Is that the Pro-Israeli Christian supporters have no idea what the orthodox Jews think about the followers of Jesus Christ. (maybe they should google it)

Perhaps the Christians forget that it was the Pharisees who sent Jesus Christ to the Romans for punishment.

I dunno ... I ask Christian ATS members this:

WHY do you support a group of people who sent the Son of God (Jesus Christ) to the WORST crucifixion punishment known to all mankind?

Is it because Israel needs USA support...and because alot of USA war supporters are Christian that they pretend to like the Christ Supporters for their tax dollars???????

I just find the whole thing really PERPLEXING from a non-religious OUTSIDE perspective.

edit on 25-11-2012 by infowarrior9970 because: a mighty correction!

edit on 25-11-2012 by infowarrior9970 because: additions

Well The reason most support them is because Jesus forgave them and asked his Father God to forgive them to. Not all Jewish are orthodox either they are using the talmud and not the torah as they are supposed to. I support peace but do not believe in letting someone walk allover them. Turn the other cheek was meant for verbal assaults and not actual assaults trying to kill or hurt you.

reply to post by Deetermined

How do you put the words "limited scope" in the same sentence with "fact-finding mission"?

I didn't, Goldstone did, for very specific reasons.

Your statement was:

Goldstone admitted that his report would never stand up in a court of law due to the failure to prove intent.

This is wrong and you failed to provide a source in which context he made that statement and explaining exactly, why this would be the case.

reply to post by talklikeapirat

I didn't, Goldstone did, for very specific reasons.

Yes, those reasons being that he knew he had limited facts from his "limited scope".

The comment I saw from Goldstone regarding not holding up in court was in one of your previous links in this thread, but I'm not going to dig it out, since I think I've already established that the reports "fact-finding" was limited.

reply to post by Deetermined

Yes, those reasons being that he knew he had limited facts from his "limited scope".

Again, wrong.

If by 'established', you mean trying to twist it that way, i'll give you that.

The reason you don't want to back your claim is, that anybody taking a closer look at the issue would get a clearer picture about the context in which statements are made and the whole affair in general, and i think you don't want that.

try this link

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Well, Gaza will have more than just random rockets raining down on Israel, Iran is providing Hamas with guideance systems for their rockets, so that random rockets will turn into cruise missles. Now Hamas will be able to fully embrace their "eye for an eye" ways.

And the hatred against Jews, just shines away.

Time is against Israel, not for it ... so when the Israeli army, is fighting this fight a small conflict at a time, it's actually slowly loosing it. And they know that, which is why they complain, and why they ignore the UN resolution. Because the UN resolutions, are biased ... they're rasist, and nasistic in nature. As Europe, has always been ...

If Israel, was the bad guy here ... they'd do what they did in the 6 day war ... it would paralise the Arabs for decades. Instead, they're not.

And instead, every European country is feeling some misguided sympathy for the Arab nations, and they're importing them to Europe, in the millions. So, now it's not just "blonde" freaks that hate jews, it's all colors ...

I feel sorry for Israel ... they deserve better, and let's hope their efforts of not-going-all-the-way to keep open the route for diplomacy pays off on the long run.

reply to post by filosophia


I think when looking at things from a moral perspective, the size of the weapon is not the decisive aspect. Hamas has been firing rockets at Israel since early 2000. even after the disengagement Hamas continued to fire rockets at Israel proper. you can't say gaza is occupied by Israel. Hamas could have build a Singapore over there and invest in economy and flourish. they chose hatred.

When Hamas fired rockets at civilians in Israel proper, not settlers, it is saying: "Israel is not legitimate in any border". regardless of the size of the rocket, it is an existential battle

g

The whole ideology of the U.N. supposes that peace and harmony are actually wanted by these warring factions. Thats where their whole ignorance starts. It starts in assuming that they share the values of the U.N. do-gooders for peace and harmony. But peace and harmony is the last thing on the minds of theses sides. If the majority in that region of the Mideast wanted peace, they would have peace. Assuming they want, and "should have" peace is ignorant.

reply to post by reeferman


en.m.wikipedia.org... Genocide?

The Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (PCBS) estimated Palestinians at mid year 2009 as 10.7 million persons as follows: 3.9 million in the Palestinian Territory (36.6%), 1.2 million (11.5%) in Israel; 5.0 million in Arab countries (46.2%), 0.6 million in foreign countries (5.7%).[1]

According to an article in Guardian
(2008) using PCBS census figures, thePalestinian
 territories have one of the fastest growing populations in the world, with numbers surging 30% in the past decade (2008). There was 3.76 million Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem, up from 2.89 million 10 years earlier.[2]

Doesn't look like it...