I do see this as problem, first off the Government knew full weel be hand that the WTC was going to be hit, watch it be hit.
Condlisa Rice, had the info sitting on her desk.
I don't think a bunch of Islam's with high power hunting rifles or AKs would go over good, the good ole boys would have a big ole hunt.
Why not use 50 Islam terrorist with cars, they can dive cars. Ever see a car hit a transformer in the movies, this just sounds like a reason to forbid
hunting rifles. Might as well forbid cars also.
God forbid they start to shot at oil refineries or nuclear power plants.
The thing they really need to address and are not is if we have a violet solar storm like the one in 1859, the wole grid goes down world wide. They
need to set up a means of detection, ( Radio Active Decay ) and a way to shut
down, isolate the grid so it does not get fried.
I would worry more about dirty bombs, than having to do a few electrical repairs. look at the Ice storm in Canada, had to beat that one.
Rifle-Toting Terrorists Called Major Threat to U.S. Power Grid, page 4
reply posted on 25-11-2012 @ 01:21 PM by milkyway12
reply to post by stumason
If we lose the power grid, it will most likely be because of a Cyber attack. For example, China makes a lot of parts that go into our power grids. What if they pre install devices or software that can manipulate or plant a virus on the network.
However, if terrorist some how figure out how to become stealthy and patient they can get highered at a electric plant and have physical access to the network and plant a virus that way.
Our electrical grid will most likely never be knocked, unless it comes from a EMP strike or a Cyber attack.
If we lose the power grid, it will most likely be because of a Cyber attack. For example, China makes a lot of parts that go into our power grids. What if they pre install devices or software that can manipulate or plant a virus on the network.
However, if terrorist some how figure out how to become stealthy and patient they can get highered at a electric plant and have physical access to the network and plant a virus that way.
Our electrical grid will most likely never be knocked, unless it comes from a EMP strike or a Cyber attack.
reply posted on 25-11-2012 @ 06:12 PM by Hijinx
reply to post by OOOOOO
It really bugs me when people panic like they do about solar flares. I Agree, a large enough flare would do some substantial damage, but you need to understand a solar flare is a really big emp burst. Nuclear weapons, and non nuclear weapons can produce them. IT doesn't end the entire electrical grid for good. Depending on the device, and whether it is on or off depends on what will happen. There are areas of the world that would be effected in a fairly severe manner, and others that will blitz through it with maybe some interrupted services.
My concern with a Large solar flare like this would be all those satellites of the worlds nation that will get super fried and could decide to drop to earth any time from that point on. Nothing like thousands of bricks of steel, alluminum and titanium just waiting to come crashing down on your homes. Some of which have nuclear material in them. Not good at all.
The Solar Flare of 1859 should remind us to prepare our systems for such surges, but it's not likely to devastate the world as many think. Not to mention, you said whole world... The side facing the sun would take the hit, the side facing away would get very little effect. Models are available that show flares interacting with the earths magnetic field. You should check em out. Also a good idea, to learn how electro magnetic Pulses interact with various electronics and lengths of wire. Some of it isn't very fantastical at all.
It really bugs me when people panic like they do about solar flares. I Agree, a large enough flare would do some substantial damage, but you need to understand a solar flare is a really big emp burst. Nuclear weapons, and non nuclear weapons can produce them. IT doesn't end the entire electrical grid for good. Depending on the device, and whether it is on or off depends on what will happen. There are areas of the world that would be effected in a fairly severe manner, and others that will blitz through it with maybe some interrupted services.
My concern with a Large solar flare like this would be all those satellites of the worlds nation that will get super fried and could decide to drop to earth any time from that point on. Nothing like thousands of bricks of steel, alluminum and titanium just waiting to come crashing down on your homes. Some of which have nuclear material in them. Not good at all.
The Solar Flare of 1859 should remind us to prepare our systems for such surges, but it's not likely to devastate the world as many think. Not to mention, you said whole world... The side facing the sun would take the hit, the side facing away would get very little effect. Models are available that show flares interacting with the earths magnetic field. You should check em out. Also a good idea, to learn how electro magnetic Pulses interact with various electronics and lengths of wire. Some of it isn't very fantastical at all.
reply posted on 25-11-2012 @ 08:12 PM by OOOOOO
reply to post by Hijinx
The solar event that took palace in 1859 lasted for some time from what I have read. It stated there was fire in the sky.
The other thing is, I don't know how much you know about electricity and the grid, but the state the grid is in now, it could go down like domino's. With little cause to cause collapse of.
This is also a big concern of NASA, I have spoken with a few electrical engineers about this and little has been done to protect the grid. There is no protection. If it was really bad they say it could take years to repair.
This is why you need to be separated from the grid then you can shut down and wait, till the danger passes.
1859
Just before dawn the next day, skies all over planet Earth erupted in red, green, and purple auroras so brilliant that newspapers could be read as easily as in daylight. Indeed, stunning auroras pulsated even at near tropical latitudes over Cuba, the Bahamas, Jamaica, El Salvador, and Hawaii.
Even more disconcerting, telegraph systems worldwide went haywire. Spark discharges shocked telegraph operators and set the telegraph paper on fire. Even when telegraphers disconnected the batteries powering the lines, aurora-induced electric currents in the wires still allowed messages to be transmitted.
The solar event that took palace in 1859 lasted for some time from what I have read. It stated there was fire in the sky.
The other thing is, I don't know how much you know about electricity and the grid, but the state the grid is in now, it could go down like domino's. With little cause to cause collapse of.
This is also a big concern of NASA, I have spoken with a few electrical engineers about this and little has been done to protect the grid. There is no protection. If it was really bad they say it could take years to repair.
This is why you need to be separated from the grid then you can shut down and wait, till the danger passes.
1859
Just before dawn the next day, skies all over planet Earth erupted in red, green, and purple auroras so brilliant that newspapers could be read as easily as in daylight. Indeed, stunning auroras pulsated even at near tropical latitudes over Cuba, the Bahamas, Jamaica, El Salvador, and Hawaii.
Even more disconcerting, telegraph systems worldwide went haywire. Spark discharges shocked telegraph operators and set the telegraph paper on fire. Even when telegraphers disconnected the batteries powering the lines, aurora-induced electric currents in the wires still allowed messages to be transmitted.
reply posted on 25-11-2012 @ 08:51 PM by DrGod
reply to post by OOOOOO
This translates today into cell phone exploding in our pockets
Monitors and CPUs turning into time bombs
And 3 years of darkness
This translates today into cell phone exploding in our pockets
Monitors and CPUs turning into time bombs
And 3 years of darkness
reply posted on 26-11-2012 @ 03:34 AM by Hijinx
reply to post by DrGod
No it doesn't. It really doesn't.
"Seventeen major flares erupted on the Sun between 19 October and 5 November 2003, including perhaps the most intense flare ever measured on the GOES XRS sensor – a huge X28 flare,[17] resulting in an extreme radio blackout, on 4 November. These flares were associated with CME events which impacted the Earth"
X28 is a pretty big solar flare.. We're all still here, along with our technology. Solar flares have the potential to damage some electrical systems but it isn't enough energy to completely ruin them. Long strands of wire like those for telegraph lines are the most susceptible to the increase in ambient EMF. Devices like cellphones, and other battery operated devices would be very unlikely to burn, pop, explode or do anything at all. You'd be more likely to lose service because of the interference with the radio signals than anything else. Solar flares are some what of a concern, but we tend to butter it up quite a bit with our doomy gloomy minds.
en.wikipedia.org...
No it doesn't. It really doesn't.
"Seventeen major flares erupted on the Sun between 19 October and 5 November 2003, including perhaps the most intense flare ever measured on the GOES XRS sensor – a huge X28 flare,[17] resulting in an extreme radio blackout, on 4 November. These flares were associated with CME events which impacted the Earth"
X28 is a pretty big solar flare.. We're all still here, along with our technology. Solar flares have the potential to damage some electrical systems but it isn't enough energy to completely ruin them. Long strands of wire like those for telegraph lines are the most susceptible to the increase in ambient EMF. Devices like cellphones, and other battery operated devices would be very unlikely to burn, pop, explode or do anything at all. You'd be more likely to lose service because of the interference with the radio signals than anything else. Solar flares are some what of a concern, but we tend to butter it up quite a bit with our doomy gloomy minds.
en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 26-11-2012 by Hijinx because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 28-11-2012 @ 10:08 AM by butcherguy
reply to post by DrGod
I think it translates into a cell phone becoming a useless lump in my pocket after the battery backups in the towers go dead and the electrical grid is still down. It took about two days after Sandy shut the power down for the cell tower batteries to go dead.
This translates today into cell phone exploding in our pockets
I think it translates into a cell phone becoming a useless lump in my pocket after the battery backups in the towers go dead and the electrical grid is still down. It took about two days after Sandy shut the power down for the cell tower batteries to go dead.
The terrorist are everywhere! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES... BUT... before you do, please surrender any liberty or freedom at the
door on your way out. Ok, continue panicking for no good reason... 
Good lord, this country needs help!!!reply posted on 28-11-2012 @ 01:15 PM by kozmo
reply to post by Phoenix
Fair enough! Let us simply surmise then that the electrical grid is vulnerable to a WIDE VARIETY of threats. We can discuss how to "harden" it, but how is such an astronomical undertaking funded? Would you pay a 300% or even a 500% increase in your electric bill to undertake the task? Many can't, Most won't.
Rather than wringing my hands over that which I have no control, I have put my nervous energy into preparing for a worst case scenario. Bought a generator. Have food storage. Secured a way to process potable water. Etcetera...
The grid (Along with most infrastructure) could be taken out by an asteroid as well. What should we do about that?
Fair enough! Let us simply surmise then that the electrical grid is vulnerable to a WIDE VARIETY of threats. We can discuss how to "harden" it, but how is such an astronomical undertaking funded? Would you pay a 300% or even a 500% increase in your electric bill to undertake the task? Many can't, Most won't.
Rather than wringing my hands over that which I have no control, I have put my nervous energy into preparing for a worst case scenario. Bought a generator. Have food storage. Secured a way to process potable water. Etcetera...
The grid (Along with most infrastructure) could be taken out by an asteroid as well. What should we do about that?
reply posted on 28-11-2012 @ 08:10 PM by pheonix358
reply to post by kozmo
I will just add this. Being prepared is
The more technocratic and the more structured a society is, the easier it is to bring down.
Technocratic societies rely on technocratic solutions to technocratic problems. They never seem to be able to see the real simple things. The Abrams Tank can be overcome by the simple expedient of digging a hole that it falls into.
Bureaucratic societies rely on Bureaucratic solutions to Bureaucratic problems. They never seem to be able to see the real simple things. Burn the records! Kill the people at the bottom of the pyramid.
Just imagine, in the US, what would happen if you took out Hoover dam and the one that supplies LA. Just think of the repercussions. Water and power plus the enormous flooding.
P
I will just add this. Being prepared is
The more technocratic and the more structured a society is, the easier it is to bring down.
Technocratic societies rely on technocratic solutions to technocratic problems. They never seem to be able to see the real simple things. The Abrams Tank can be overcome by the simple expedient of digging a hole that it falls into.
Bureaucratic societies rely on Bureaucratic solutions to Bureaucratic problems. They never seem to be able to see the real simple things. Burn the records! Kill the people at the bottom of the pyramid.
Just imagine, in the US, what would happen if you took out Hoover dam and the one that supplies LA. Just think of the repercussions. Water and power plus the enormous flooding.
P
reply posted on 28-11-2012 @ 08:30 PM by Phoenix
reply to post by kozmo
Yes thats really the message, be prepared as best you can be and be happy with that! The downer is your own government may list you because of the simple expedient you are prepared somehow makes you dangerous.
Dangerous is, folks in a dissater who did not prepare and have the smartass idea they deserve what others have.
People need to realize that whats taken for granted can quickly go away, in the process making it very clear how thin the veneer of civilization really is.
If a majority could be prepared in some way that veneer would be thicker.
In my world a bucket of long-term food storage is far more valuable that the latest automobile, cell phone, gadget or bigscreen TV. Priorities........................
Yes thats really the message, be prepared as best you can be and be happy with that! The downer is your own government may list you because of the simple expedient you are prepared somehow makes you dangerous.
Dangerous is, folks in a dissater who did not prepare and have the smartass idea they deserve what others have.
People need to realize that whats taken for granted can quickly go away, in the process making it very clear how thin the veneer of civilization really is.
If a majority could be prepared in some way that veneer would be thicker.
In my world a bucket of long-term food storage is far more valuable that the latest automobile, cell phone, gadget or bigscreen TV. Priorities........................
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