If One learns HTML and Javascript will I be Internet competent., page 1

reply to post by Dr Expired

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I have a question for you on this. What is your end goal? Is it to have a professional competency to be able to build a site by hand and from scratch as well as take someone else's bad code and see problems while figuring how to fix them?

Or

Is it to make very good and solid websites from the user and admin side alike?

I personally learned enough HTML coding to work in Dreamweaver or similar code base programs comfortably but I work almost exclusively with Joomla for complex site building and WYSIWYG Web Builder 8 for things where the massive overhead Joomla comes with isn't necessary. (The WYSIWYG 8 software is the only true one I've ever found with ALL the power one could need AND lives up to it's name with 0 coding knowledge needed)..

As I'm in a spot in life where I'm redefining how I make a living, your post just got my curiosity for the logic?

Learning HTML and CSS are where you should start in learning to program. Go CSS Tips and Tricks to get started. I assume you meant _javascript when you mentioned java. Use jquery, a library used with _javascript that is easy.

Since you are just starting out, I would suggest using WordPress, Joomla, MODx, Drupal, or something similar. This way you can learn an interface that you can modify instead of starting from scratch.

reply to post by earthalien50

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So when someone tells you that you have to learn more than HTML, CSS, __javascript, they are not in the business. You will learn PHP and MySQL as you continue to learn.

We didn't say he had to learn more than those things to build websites, we said he has to learn more if he wants to be able to create dynamic websites such as forums, which is what he asked.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by earthalien50

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So when someone tells you that you have to learn more than HTML, CSS, __javascript, they are not in the business. You will learn PHP and MySQL as you continue to learn.

We didn't say he had to learn more than those things to build websites, we said he has to learn more if he wants to be able to create dynamic websites such as forums, which is what he asked.

As I said before, you do not need extensive knowledge in PHP and/or MySQL to make a web site. You can even have forums, dynamic web pages or a wide variety of added features. Using CMS scripts allows you to use other programmers' code. I know many web site developers that do not know MySQL or PHP and they have been in the business for at least a decade.

I mean no offense, it is just that I have programmed for 30 years and have been hosting and programming web sites for the last 20 years. If I am wrong, then I must be in another reality than you.

reply to post by earthalien50

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Yes well we must be living in another reality if you think a good web developer can create dynamic websites by using only other peoples code.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by earthalien50

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Yes well we must be living in another reality if you think a good web developer can create dynamic websites by using only other peoples code.

Programmers use other peoples' code all of the time. Most programmers are not foolish enough to rewrite something that takes hours if they can get it on github. Learning programming is a lot easier if you can look at someone's code and implement it on your own site. I do concede that PHP and MySQL are important to grasp, but certainly not necessary at first.
Simply put, use CMS and put off the MySQL and PHP learning for now. It will come to you later when you need it. You don't teach someone to swim by throwing them in the deep end.

reply to post by earthalien50

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Programmers use other peoples' code all of the time. Most programmers are not foolish enough to rewrite something that takes hours if they can get it on github.

Yes I completely agree, I do it myself all the time. However a good web develop cannot get by simply using the code of others, they also need to be able to write their own code and modify existing code. There are a lot of things which simply cannot be achieved without some ability to write or modify existing code.

And also I do agree with you that PHP and MySQL should come later. The OP specifically asked what he would need to know in order to design certain types of websites, and I answered accordingly. The OP should obviously understand that PHP and MySQL are more difficult and that the easier stuff needs to be learnt first. That goes without saying.

reply to post by michael1983l

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Flash is being retired in favour of html5.

thank god....

I took a moment to put my thoughts together on this and see about some helpful ideas.

First up I'll say that I am taking the Web Design coding classes at school just to get the formal instruction and check in the 'ol HTML/PHP/Script languages box. I know enough to hack/modify whatever I need for anything I'm working with right now and that goes back to the days of Perl based CGI running things (Heck.. Boreland C+ with WWIV source code to really feel old for a minute). Learning code enough to hack as needed isn't too difficult and certainly doesn't require any degree, IMO. I think that if you're looking to be a freelance or self employed designer, that is probably sufficient when time and resources are limited and making a paycheck soonest is important.


The above approach would absolutely have to come with something like Joomla 2.5 / 3.0 (Full Ajax and Html 5/CSS3 on 3.0) with it's near unlimited Extensions (Most are free) to do almost anything someone could want or need. Joomla mastery or just expertise is also a skill all it's own as I've certainly seen ads in this area for experienced Joomla designers on contract as well as regular employment type positions. It's the kind of CMS framework I can build what some places charge $500 for, be done in a day or less and interactive too! (oooo... ahhhhh..) or, as I found when doing a Networking course presentation on Joomla, it's used by some major media outlets for their web presence and deep, rich interactivity. It's scalable with as much as someone is willing to put into learning. (It's come a LONG way since early versions too) Wordpress is great for a blog or basic site (The CMS, not the website of the same name) ....and Drupal is effective but if Joomla looks tough, it'll be worse IMO.


The flip side and a GOOD learning tool for HTML as well if that's the goal is Wysiwyg Web Builder 8. People hear site generator and they think Frontpage or the garbage toys every hosting provider throws in to "make your own website" . Generally all those do is make someone willing to pay almost anything by the end of trying, to HAVE it made by someone else and I've paid a few bills that way. This is nothing like FP or even Muse today. Muse is missing a couple pretty big things, IMO.

WB8 also has Extensions and hundreds more than what is there in the user made variety. Unlike CMS systems though, this is HTML generation on 'publish' and load times are appropriately snappy. No comparison really...and this is what I use for sites that don't need SOBI level databases or aren't running a thousand page catalog of inventory from a warehouse distributor or something. Building a site with this is what has me up tonight in fact.

The LARGEST...and I mean, by far LARGEST benefit of this program for Web site design and layout is that it IS a layout program. A true, honest to goodness point/click and it comes with all the positioning / detail / organizational tools that anyone who has used Photoshop or similar programs know and love for just positioning at xxx by xxx and it's there. As you see it. Period. .......and relative in movement for re-sizing windows when used that way.

So it's as much a graphics program for drawing power as it is like a practical version of Dreamweaver mixed with Indesign and minus a big learning curve for someone starting out. (It will also show you the complete and detailed HTML code it will be generating as well as places for adding to it and coding in events or basic function on almost everything on a page...up to HTML5 standards with CSS3 of course)

Hope that helps for more info

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