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WW2 Code Found on Pigeon Baffles British Cryptographers

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posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 02:18 PM
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Code Found on Pigeon Baffles British Cryptographers


www.nytimes.com

Britain’s code-breakers acknowledged on Friday that an encrypted handwritten message from World War II, found on the leg of a long-dead carrier pigeon in a household chimney in southern England, has thwarted all their efforts to decode it since it was sent to them last month.

Mr. Martin said he was skeptical of the idea that GCHQ had been unable to crack the code. “I think there’s something about that message that is either sensitive or does not reflect well” on British special forces operati...
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 23/11/2012 by Fichorka because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 02:18 PM
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This is a link to a thread here on ATS about initial report of pigeon being found: Link

So we have GCHQ, whose initials stand for Government Communications Headquarters claiming they are unable to crack the code.

David Martin, the one who found pigeon's skeleton is convinced that the code is important and contains secret message. He thinks that revealing the code would unmask some of the British special forces infamous operations behind enemy lines.
"There was some indication on Friday, though, that GCHQ was not taking 40TW194’s code as seriously as, say, tracking satellite phone communications between militants in the Hindu Kush."

www.nytimes.com
(visit the link for the full news article)
edit on 23/11/2012 by Fichorka because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 02:23 PM
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quite a few comments on the existing thread


www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by ladyteeny
quite a few comments on the existing thread


www.abovetopsecret.com...

As I mentioned, the thread you linked is about a report that Pigeon, together with a secret message is found and is is being decoded.
This thread is about the result of efforts to decode the secret message. Codebreakers, or 'cryptographers' failed to decode, or are not willing to publish their findings, as David Martin is suggesting.
edit on 23/11/2012 by Fichorka because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 02:38 PM
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im not suprised that they failed to decode

not because it was hard....but because its sensitive

so these geeks, threw away all the code books from 1944...thats the end of the war...so that would be the latest code books..all gone??? B to the S!


it probably says...yea..poland is worth 2 cents...buy now.....

some rothchild city of london rhetoric...lol


peace



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 02:42 PM
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Is it possible they were using a "One time Pad"? Aren't those considered unbreakable?



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by Fichorka
 



Part of the article states...

“Without access to the relevant codebooks and details of any additional encryption used, it will remain impossible to decrypt,” GCHQ said in a news release. “Although it is disappointing that we cannot yet read the message brought back by a brave carrier pigeon, it is a tribute to the skills of the wartime code-makers that, despite working under severe pressure, they devised a code that was undecipherable both then and now.”

Well absolute bunkum I say. GCHQ have access to anything they bloody well desire, they dont even have to ask, they just march some Ministry fellows in, take what data they need from wherever it may be, and leave with it. And they are GCHQ!!! If data exists, then they can find it and get it. If this coded pigeon carried messege exists, then there is a corresponding alphabet for this code somewhere, and there is no way in the world that GCHQ dont know where it is.



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 03:39 PM
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It's quite probably an early version of slidex or batco used by the Brits untill the early 2000's
A very simple but incredibly effective method of encryption
A very rough guide
And I mean rough as I'm not sure of current classification

The first block detailing the encryption/decryption setting and cypher sheet/book
Which then through use of the correct corresponding cypher sheet translates the letters into numbers
Those numbers then relate to a page number or chapter, then within that page or chapter further numbers detail a line on that sheet ( or within that chapter )
That line then being part of the message
The next block of letters detailing the next sheet/chapter and line within that sheet/chapter
A maximum amount of encryptions per cypher rule was also used meaning that half way through a message the whole cypher, encryption, decryption, sheet/chapter would also change making it a very hard code to break

Wiki page on batco

en.m.wikipedia.org...

And slidex
en.m.wikipedia.org...

www.jproc.ca...

So without knowlege of the encryption sheet/book or a copy of the decryption sheet/book this message could be nigh on impossible to break

edit on 23-11-2012 by Neocrusader because: Added link to slidex
edit on 23-11-2012 by Neocrusader because: (no reason given)
edit on 23-11-2012 by Neocrusader because: Auto



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by Fichorka
 



Part of the article states...

“Without access to the relevant codebooks and details of any additional encryption used, it will remain impossible to decrypt,” GCHQ said in a news release. “Although it is disappointing that we cannot yet read the message brought back by a brave carrier pigeon, it is a tribute to the skills of the wartime code-makers that, despite working under severe pressure, they devised a code that was undecipherable both then and now.”

Well absolute bunkum I say. GCHQ have access to anything they bloody well desire, they dont even have to ask, they just march some Ministry fellows in, take what data they need from wherever it may be, and leave with it. And they are GCHQ!!! If data exists, then they can find it and get it. If this coded pigeon carried messege exists, then there is a corresponding alphabet for this code somewhere, and there is no way in the world that GCHQ dont know where it is.


It depends on if its just a training exercise in which case the code could be gibberish and if it was a top secret the people who knew about it could be dead and from what i have read about WW2 the people took it very seriously and its why only now we're getting people talking about Bletchley park so who really knows what went on and certainly having different cyphers would be good should the place get infiltrated by a spy as they can only report what they can decypher and with people who worked there never revealing it to their partners when they got married after the war you can see how its easy not to have direct access to the decryption methods



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 03:57 PM
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I truly doubt CGHQ is putting a lot of time and resources or their "best people" into decoding this, so it does not surprise me at all that they haven't yet decoded it. I'm not ready to say something is fishy with CGHQ's story.

I mean , it's a 70 year old code. I doubt they have the information as to how to decode it at their fingertips. If the decoding information still exists, it's probably in some basement or warehouse somewhere in a box full of other 70-year old crap.



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 04:27 PM
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It all depends who it was from and which code was used. If it was from an SOE agent in France then it might have encoded using a WOK (Worked Out Key) or a LOP (Letter One-time Pad). Now, LOPS are notoriously hard to break, especially off a depth of one, in other words if the code was used once and once only. SOE produced thousands of the things and after the war a lot of SOE's records went AWOL. So it doesn't really surprise me that they can't break it. If anyone is interested in British code making in the war by the way I massively recommend a book called Between Silk And Cyanide by Leo Marks, the man who invented SOE's WOKs and LOPs.



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 05:26 PM
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Posted earlier herewww.abovetopsecret.com...

/Please add further comments to the ongoing discussion in the above linked thread.
Thanks




**Thread Closed**


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edit on Fri Nov 23 2012 by DontTreadOnMe because: (no reason given)





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