What good has the U.S. done for the world

Put this in chat because I think it calls for opinions and not facts.

As far as I can tell, the U.S. has been dabbling in the welfare of other countries at least throughout my lifetime. Yet, I can't think of a country that is better off today because of our influence. Maybe it's just that it's early and I'm not thinking straight.

I'm not talking about Japan or Germany being destroyed by war. I'm talking about things like the U.S. manipulating foreign governments, forcing elections... That kind of stuff.

Can anyone name countries that are better off today because of U.S. intervention? Countries that didn't slip back into corruption after we left?

reply to post by jiggerj

Can anyone name countries that are better off today because of U.S. intervention? Countries that didn't slip back into corruption after we left?

Nearly every country (if not all) in existence is corrupt, being that it is part of human nature. The US itself is corrupt or has corrupted individuals in power. That being said, one could argue the stability the US brings to the world in its foreign policy is a positive, as it has brought about a global order not seen since the days of Ancient Rome.

So the first argument opposing this will spring up saying, "But if the US just left everyone alone..."

Yes, if the US left everyone alone they could be "oh so independent"... Unfortunately, countries would be vying for the same spot the US holds now. Think of all the past tries at world domination, and multiply it by x number of countries that want to be top dog.

Even though the US has its problems, its influence on the world is obviously a lot more sufferable than Hitlers goals of world domination. Or many others that have tried in the past.

The idea that the US is not an empire is silly, given that it has military bases littered throughout the entire world. It is an empire, one that isn't that bad compared to some of the alternatives.

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by jiggerj

Can anyone name countries that are better off today because of U.S. intervention? Countries that didn't slip back into corruption after we left?

 

Nearly every country (if not all) in existence is corrupt, being that it is part of human nature. The US itself is corrupt or has corrupted individuals in power. That being said, one could argue the stability the US brings to the world in its foreign policy is a positive, as it has brought about a global order not seen since the days of Ancient Rome.

So the first argument opposing this will spring up saying, "But if the US just left everyone alone..."

Yes, if the US left everyone alone they could be "oh so independent"... Unfortunately, countries would be vying for the same spot the US holds now. Think of all the past tries at world domination, and multiply it by x number of countries that want to be top dog.

Even though the US has its problems, its influence on the world is obviously a lot more sufferable than Hitlers goals of world domination. Or many others that have tried in the past.

The idea that the US is not an empire is silly, given that it has military bases littered throughout the entire world. It is an empire, one that isn't that bad compared to some of the alternatives.

Nice response, Boncho. Thanks. I never gave a thought to what would happen to the world if we didn't interfere. I think you're right. Some other country would go around trying to instill things like communism into other nations. Or imagine a world dominated by Islam. Brrrrrr, I get the chills thinking about it!

Imagine a world of this: A different thread

reply to post by boncho


Yes quite. America the empire. You even compared it to ancient Rome. Now we all know what happened to ancient Rome, do we not?

I often wonder if terrorism would be so rife, if it was not for America and its conquering ways. Whenever there is a controlling force like America, there will be others opposing it.

No one can say what would have happened, if they did not rise to power like they did. So anything said in that direction is nothing but speculation.

vvv

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by jiggerj

Can anyone name countries that are better off today because of U.S. intervention? Countries that didn't slip back into corruption after we left?

 

The idea that the US is not an empire is silly, given that it has military bases littered throughout the entire world. It is an empire, one that isn't that bad compared to some of the alternatives.

The US is very cunning and uses the media to con you into thinking they are any better than the rest of the failed superpowers. Most of the problems in the world today can be linked to the US.

I'm not having a dig at the people, just the government and corporations that run it all.

hmmm... going to take awhile to think of something ...... will get back to you on that one after a few more drinks and some thinking on the subject.... erm... maybe many more drinks is tough question....

Originally posted by jiggerj
I'm not talking about Japan or Germany being destroyed by war.

Why rule out that side of the question?
We should include them, and add in holding back and effectively destroying the Soviet Union.
Those dominations would have been much worse for the world.

reply to post by jamespond

The US is very cunning and uses the media to con you into thinking they are any better than the rest of the failed superpowers. Most of the problems in the world today can be linked to the US.

I'm not having a dig at the people, just the government and corporations that run it all.

I never really said whether or not the US was "better" than any super power in the past. They are much more effective than many, and that isn't up for debate, it's evident.

Also when you say "US"... The current empire which influences the world has arms reaching from the USA, but, really is an extension of the British Colonial rule. Although, the outright occupation of nations didn't sit very well, this is why we have seen a more subtle, monetary based control with the military only as a friendly reminder in the backdrop...

"Hiya, here's your loan, take a look at that nice air base I just built outside your border."

"Toodles."

ahh.... got it .... the zippo lighter ....

reply to post by VreemdeVlieendeVoorwep

I often wonder if terrorism would be so rife, if it was not for America and its conquering ways. Whenever there is a controlling force like America, there will be others opposing it.

At the end of the day, I really like Ron Paul's platform, and the notion of everyone just keeping to themselves less it be more a small portion of trade, exchange of ideas, and cultural learning...well, that would be great.

But it just isn't going to happen that way. If half the nations in Africa simply pulled out tomorrow anyone who hasn't had the opportunity to get in their an exploit resources would be showing up the next day. Same goes with Middle East... Same goes with pretty much anymore.

Resources... Money... It's going to cause conflict.

A gentleman at Harvard thinks we are living in the most peaceful time in history. Which might be true statistically, but it really depends on how long those stats hold up. Really, there has only been a half century of relative peace. You have to discount Pol Pot, Vietnam, and Middle East conflicts simply because percentage wise, they are not that bad compared to long history of casualties of wars, dictatorships and genocides.

The funny thing, is that a world order is probably needed to keep it the way it is. Some might argue revolution, then localized independence with a focus to stay away from globalization, but I don't find it realistic, because if a majority of nations pull out of the global scene, a select few will want to get in on it and capitalize. Especially now that the world has modern conveniences of global communication and travel that just weren't available two thousand years ago.

If people wanted to conquer the world when it took a good chunk out of a lifetime to travel it, what makes you think someone isn't going to want to do the same when they can travel end to end in a day?

reply to post by jiggerj

As far as I can tell, the U.S. has been dabbling in the welfare of other countries at least throughout my lifetime. Yet, I can't think of a country that is better off today because of our influence.

I can think of one.

United States of America...

Isn't that why we dabble? The whole purpose is to exert influence in those Countries. You have to separate the "dabbling" from humanitarian aid. We have provided relief aid to numerous Countries.

The Ramones, Dead Kennedys, Social Distortion, maybe one or two other's but other than that.....?

As I have said in many previous threads, and as has been said here, perhaps there's not one real and tangible thing, however, I know there is much wrong with US society, government etc but the world would be a hell of a worse off place without them and the role it plays on the world stage.

For all the US infuriates and thoroughly pisses me off at times it still gets a big thumbs up from me.

Oh, I forgot about The Soprano's and House Of Lies.

Originally posted by jiggerj
Put this in chat because I think it calls for opinions and not facts.

As far as I can tell, the U.S. has been dabbling in the welfare of other countries at least throughout my lifetime. Yet, I can't think of a country that is better off today because of our influence. Maybe it's just that it's early and I'm not thinking straight.

I'm not talking about Japan or Germany being destroyed by war. I'm talking about things like the U.S. manipulating foreign governments, forcing elections... That kind of stuff.

Can anyone name countries that are better off today because of U.S. intervention? Countries that didn't slip back into corruption after we left?

Politicly no. Martin Luther King was a good thing. You make good tv comedies sometimes. Is the gay movement your thing or are you behind in equality there when you compare U.S to europe? You have shown the world the religious antigay biggots and that is good from my point of view since people in other countries take a stand against that stupidity and do not let their churches preach that hate/duality. I do not think corperatism is a good thing either.

I think for me you are the perfect example of a country that is built on dreams (that are more propaganda than true) that have deevolved to something that is a good example for the rest of the world of what not to be. But people who wanna learn how to use propaganda against it's people and make them uncaring can learn a lot from US television-networks.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by jiggerj

Can anyone name countries that are better off today because of U.S. intervention? Countries that didn't slip back into corruption after we left?

 

Nearly every country (if not all) in existence is corrupt, being that it is part of human nature. The US itself is corrupt or has corrupted individuals in power. That being said, one could argue the stability the US brings to the world in its foreign policy is a positive, as it has brought about a global order not seen since the days of Ancient Rome.

So the first argument opposing this will spring up saying, "But if the US just left everyone alone..."

Yes, if the US left everyone alone they could be "oh so independent"... Unfortunately, countries would be vying for the same spot the US holds now. Think of all the past tries at world domination, and multiply it by x number of countries that want to be top dog.

Even though the US has its problems, its influence on the world is obviously a lot more sufferable than Hitlers goals of world domination. Or many others that have tried in the past.

The idea that the US is not an empire is silly, given that it has military bases littered throughout the entire world. It is an empire, one that isn't that bad compared to some of the alternatives.

Nice response, Boncho. Thanks. I never gave a thought to what would happen to the world if we didn't interfere. I think you're right. Some other country would go around trying to instill things like communism into other nations. Or imagine a world dominated by Islam. Brrrrrr, I get the chills thinking about it!

Imagine a world of this: A different thread

edit on 11/23/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

Not gonna happen. Nuclear weapons keep countries within their borders because the concequences are to big to attack. But you will have a lot of nuclear weapons being built by smaller countries to keep the peace.

My friend, what good has humanity done for the world?

Originally posted by Jauk3
My friend, what good has humanity done for the world?

Well there's...? We, ummmm?

Goood question!

These discussions always remind me of the life of Brian...

"so what have the Romans done for us... apart from the aqueduct"