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Understanding ATS's ignorance in the Middle East

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posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by Honor93
 





what makes us any more dangerous/predatorial than them ??


Intelligence. Cats can't build nukes regardless if they have hands or not.




posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 05:24 PM
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humans are still far to primitive and barbaric to learn to work / live together in peace .... nice videos but it wont stop the hate... wont stop the bloodshed and wont bring back the dead....



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by andy06shake
 

pleny of animals do and have done.
otherwise, you are presenting a pointless argument.
to assume they can't just because they don't is the epitome of Ignorance.

animals do practice philosophy or they wouldn't be medical therapists.
animals produce art regularly, yet it isn't a commercial product.

and lastly, our congnitive abilities are never a given ... plenty of humans have less than "average" congnitive ability.

where it is true that we are usually born with such an ability, it puzzles me why we live a lifetime purposefully destroying it.
what other animal does that, ever ?

if not opposable thumbs, we'd be discussing the length of our arms & legs or the size of our feet or or or ... that, unfortunately, is the human way.
competition/comparison without ever accepting that we are different for a REASON and then exploring that reason for some substance other than "disability".

had to chuckle at this comment ...

Smarter than your average Bear(Animal) through
i'd bet this guy wouldn't likely agree with your presumption.



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by Trustfund
reply to post by Honor93
 





what makes us any more dangerous/predatorial than them ??


Intelligence.
agreed


Cats can't build nukes regardless if they have hands or not.
never underestimate your opponent ... it might be a different kind of bomb, but they develop and drop them regularly



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 07:19 PM
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reply to post by RiverRunsFree
 


Are you sure that's not a map of the wars? I can't really think of any time in the past century that New Zealand invaded Japan or vice versa.

I did listen to a very interesting piece on the World Service this morning. They were interviewing the journalists who had been positioned in both Israel and Gaza during the recent conflict. Interestingly (at least to me) and perhaps the most illuminating, was the Israeli journalist, who stated that he felt that attitudes of Israeli's had hardened over the past ten years toward those in Gaza. His reason? He said that quite simply, as an Israeli journalist, he could not gain access to Gaza and consequently Israeli citizens were not able to be presented with a balanced view of circumstances.

The same fella added that on a recent visit to London he had been able to listen to balanced reporting of the matter for the first time in a long time.

I hope that you may be able to hear the show at World Have Your Say - Podcast (Entitled 'What was it like covering the violence in Israel and Gaza?')
edit on 23-11-2012 by christina-66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 12:03 AM
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reply to post by Shuye
 


I am glad you have opened your mind and seek peace but there are many zionist that are using israel as a way to create aggression in the region! Deny ignorance, freedom for all and peace to the world! Goodluck and be safe!



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 03:22 AM
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reply to post by Shuye
 

Dear Shuye,

I may very well be one of those missing your point, but I'd like to comment, if I may?

You point out the difference between the people and the leaders. That is essential, for failure to note that leads to a blind and generalized hatred. That hatred is directly opposed to the idea of "Hating the sin, loving the sinner." Our hearts need to be softened to that distinction, and I applaud you for presenting this in spite of the opposition of our posters. (I will never know how this thread became 50% concerned with cats.)

But, now for a few half-baked thoughts.

People choose their governments. Do Iran or other Islamic states ever have 52-48 elections, or is it more 90-10? Perhaps the elections aren't free (more shame on their governments), or perhaps the people approve of the government.

If hateful governments are the problem, do we have some responsibility for toppling the governments? Our current president seemed to think it was a good idea in Libya.

How do we deal with the perception that a lot of deaths worldwide (I'm only saying a lot, not most)are caused by Muslims who appear, at least externally, to be normal civilian people or child suicide bombers? That, unfortunately, makes it easier to see the "people" as being dangerous.

I'm saddened because the goal of peace is so clear, and the obstacles seem so massive.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 03:39 AM
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One thing that I don't understand is you saying the media gives no attention to the Israeli side of the story. This has proven to be false. Firstly, during the attacks the main media centres in Australia (7,9 and 10) gave absolutely no mention of the civilians killed in Gaza but discussed in lengths the air raid sirens over Tel Aviv and the "plight" of the Israelis.

Other more left-wing (supposedly) stations such as the BBC painted a picture of giving an unbiased and equal portrayal of conflict, however non-the-less Israeli speakers and spokespeople dominated and most the so called middle east experts brought in to discuss the violence turned out to be associated to the Israeli side.

So where is this so called media bias you talk about? Only in Al Jazeera, Press TV and Russia Today I assume.



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 06:10 AM
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Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by andy06shake
 

pleny of animals do and have done.
otherwise, you are presenting a pointless argument.
to assume they can't just because they don't is the epitome of Ignorance.

animals do practice philosophy or they wouldn't be medical therapists.
animals produce art regularly, yet it isn't a commercial product.

and lastly, our congnitive abilities are never a given ... plenty of humans have less than "average" congnitive ability.

where it is true that we are usually born with such an ability, it puzzles me why we live a lifetime purposefully destroying it.
what other animal does that, ever ?

if not opposable thumbs, we'd be discussing the length of our arms & legs or the size of our feet or or or ... that, unfortunately, is the human way.
competition/comparison without ever accepting that we are different for a REASON and then exploring that reason for some substance other than "disability".

had to chuckle at this comment ...

Smarter than your average Bear(Animal) through
i'd bet this guy wouldn't likely agree with your presumption.



What more can i say mate there seems to be no convincing you of the obvious. So on that note i will take your advisement under consideration and keep my eye out for subversive pussy cats with concealed explosive devices! Maybe someone should notify the authorities as to this new threat against our respective nations? I can just see it now, never mind the war on terror the new global conflict has to be the war on Pussy! LoL

Your heart seems to be in the right place i will give you that.
edit on 24-11-2012 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by Shuye
 


I am sorry but people need to study the bible if they want to know why this happens today. Wars that is. Israel wants peace and have given land to try and achieve that means to no avail because God forbids anyone to try to partition Israel. So God is teaching us Humans a lesson, you can deny this fact all you want but facts are facts. God has punished even the U.S. for trying to partition Israel.

The same evil elite have tried their best to try and hide historical fact, that will terrify most people if they knew what they were doing in the name of so called peace. Soon everyone will fall for their ultimate plan. The UFO Alien invasion is their plan to try and prove that God never existed like most believe. This will take place immediately after the Rapture during the Gog-Magog war.



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by Patriotsrevenge
 


Post of your kind are the ones that generally contibutes to the heaps of ignorances here.

Where and what are your basis and logic for your self interpretation on Israel today? It is totally unsubstantiated if not pure utter blind self dogmatic beliefs.

Time and time again, our common Creator had remove the land of milk and honey right under the jews, to teach them to follow the moral and ethical guidelines He laid down for them as a chosen people, to be role models for the rest of mankind, and given back to them when they had learnt enough or outright compassion for them.

The land is but a peice of rock. Human built structures there are but man-made vanities, incomparable to His wonders and creations such as us, and are far important than human created works or pieces of rocks. Thus, there is no case about splitting up the land or not.

Muslims too are His creations. We all came from the same source, but given free will to know what is best for all to live in peace and harmony, with the moral and ethical guides as the way for us to do so, rather than to be forced upon like automatons. We were not created to be robots, but to fulfill His destiny set for us as a species.

King Solomon was a divine approved monarch mentioned in both the Bible and the Koran. The tale of him splitting up a baby for paternal claim is a timely and good reminder of our common Creator's wisdom even in today's context.

When 2 claimnant mothers brought their case before the King, the solution was to split the baby into half and award them to both mothers. The common belief was that the King did it to test the love of the genuine mother.

The 2 women resorted to their own degree of emotion for the baby to be awarded instead.

Extrapoliate into modern era - Israel wants to split up Israel to share with Palestine so that all may live in peace. Palestine refused and want the baby only for itself, even if it meant killing every jew who resists there and subjugating the rest as last class citizens, and turning Israel to bedouin dust.

In the King Solomon's tale, the genuine mother GAVE UP her claim of her baby so that at least the baby may live. The false mother who refused to give up the claim was happy with the decision, even if she gets only half a dead baby. In the end, the paternal claimed was settled as the King realized who was the real mother and the false. The false was put to death.

Today, Israel is willing to share a living land so that all may get to live and be free. But do Palestinians, espacially the voted Hamas who demands the death of all jews, want a blood soaked dead land?

May they remember the fate of the false mother. Lessons are sent daily so that mankind may learn to progress and evolve.

If Hamas now claims that the land issue has nothing to do with religion, then they best claim OUTRIGHT now that they are acting SECULARLY, and their motives/actions are NOT based upon religion, to ALL muslims worldwide including their own palestinians.
edit on 24-11-2012 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 03:07 AM
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Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by Patriotsrevenge
 


Post of your kind are the ones that generally contibutes to the heaps of ignorances here.

Where and what are your basis and logic for your self interpretation on Israel today? It is totally unsubstantiated if not pure utter blind self dogmatic beliefs.

Time and time again, our common Creator had remove the land of milk and honey right under the jews, to teach them to follow the moral and ethical guidelines He laid down for them as a chosen people, to be role models for the rest of mankind, and given back to them when they had learnt enough or outright compassion for them.


Today, Israel is willing to share a living land so that all may get to live and be free. But do Palestinians, espacially the voted Hamas who demands the death of all jews, want a blood soaked dead land?

)


"Where and what are your basis and logic for your self interpretation on Israel today? It is totally unsubstantiated if not pure utter blind self dogmatic beliefs."

your own beliefs appear dogmatic.

i see little evidence that the israeli govt has the slightest interest in a 2 state solution.

they do have an interest in a greater israel from the nile to the euphrates. they have steadily encroached on palestinian land which is now a fraction of what it once was. and they have no regard for the life of a "goyim". does that translate as cattle? how many other cultures have such arrogant racist terms for other cultures?

the OP 's language sounds quite genuine. all is one consciousness etc. but to claim israel has no further interest in expanding its borders (point 3in other thread) sounds like his brain has been washed or he is not as genuine as he makes out.
edit on 25-11-2012 by orangutang because: to emphasise in italics



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 05:37 AM
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reply to post by christina-66
 


Sorry if this is off topic but just to answer your question, that is a map of invasions over the last 100 years, it excludes civil wars etc.

New Zealand invaded the Solomon Islands in 1942 and Samoa in 1914. they didn't invade Japan, the line your seeing is Japan invading the Solomon Islands also. I can see why there is a misunderstanding, that line does look straight from New Zealand to Japan.

PS I listened to your link, very interesting



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 06:08 AM
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reply to post by orangutang
 


I still stand with that point of view. I'm simply trying to observe what is, and what I observe is that Israel gave up on Sinai Desert.

Why would Israel give up a land bigger than their own size, if they seek to expand their territory? Please share your genuine thoughts on this, I would like to hear them out.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 12:43 AM
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reply to post by Shuye
 

i just went to wiki to get an idea about the sinai desert. i see it belongs/ed to egypt before the 79 war. then there was a peace treaty tween israel and egypt with a privately arranged observer force to watch the area. (russia had vetoed an official watch party.)
so i guess you're saying why did they not just take it? maybe the timing was wrong. maybe the US did not agree. i dont think it was from any moral point of view as the zionist run israel is devoid of morality. some writers say the 2 blue lines on the flag are symbols of the 2 rivers, nile and euphrates. i dont see their lack of aquisitativeness in that area as any proof they are happy with their present borders. they have a ghastly record for deception and cruelty with excessive force. nowhere and at no time do they display the sense of oneness you so admirably mention in your posts. this "quality" is the very foundation of morality.

i have a friend who went back to israel for a holiday but cut it in half as he observed the locals arrogance had grown considerably since his previous stay some years earlier. what is your opinion on this? are the children in kindergarten indoctrinated with the"gods chosen people" thing? are jews put on a pedestal and arabs belittled?

there may be several months to go but i suspect we are approaching the time when god gathers the various nations together for some final conflict. it would seem the "players" are slowly assembling. i guess they've always been nearby, or most of them anyway.

i read also there is a group of soldiers or reservists that will willingly protect israels borders but refuse to go any further than that. that was very pleasing to come across and if groups like that grew, who knows, all peoples may become "conscious" of oneness.
edit on 27-11-2012 by orangutang because: added para



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 01:31 AM
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here's a little more i came across.



“Our American friends offer us money, arms, and advice. We take the money, we take the arms, and we decline the advice.” Moshe Dayan


Rogue Terrorism for a Greater Israel

Most peoples that resist the power politics of Zionism condemn aggressive actions of the outlaw Israeli state regularly. Yet most of the western democracies that are under the control of Talmud media and Khazar finance continue to defend the apartheid policies that are designed to purge any prospect of Palestinian, right to return, to the land of their forced removal. No matter what your politics are regarding the Middle East, the indisputable fact exists that the Greater Israel design for expanded territory is a core impediment of this interminable conflict.

From the beginning, Zionists advocated a "Jewish State" not just in Palestine, but also in Jordan, southern Lebanon, and the Golan Heights as well. In 1918 Ben-Gurion described the future "Jewish state's" frontiers in details as follows:

"to the north, the Litani river [in southern Lebanon], to the northeast, the Wadi 'Owja, twenty miles south of Damascus; the southern border will be mobile and pushed into Sinai at least up to Wadi al-'Arish; and to the east, the Syrian Desert, including the furthest edge of Transjordan" (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 87) Click here below to view the "Greater Israel" map that was submitted by the Zionists to the peace conference after WWI.


[img]http://www.palestineremembered.com...[/img]



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by Honor93
 


I'm sorry for the off-topic, but I couldn't resist:


animals do practice philosophy or they wouldn't be medical therapists.


Do you mean therapists like, using dolphins to help sick kids heal better? Because if you do, the therapists are the humans who train those animals, not the animals themselves...


animals produce art regularly, yet it isn't a commercial product.


Art, in order for it to be considered art, must have a meaning or a message, and it's usually associated with the culture it originates from. Animals can replicate human art, but they are unable to make it with a purpose other than training (by humans) or some other odd reason (like, for instance, cats touching piano keys because the frequencies of the strings are pleasant to them). Mostly because they are not part of our culture...


and lastly, our congnitive abilities are never a given ... plenty of humans have less than "average" congnitive ability.


(average) Humans surpass the most-intelligent animals at the age of 5, and with 5 years of age, you are still a long way from your full development as a human.

And the "less than average cognitive ability" you speak of, is still way higher than the cognitive ability of any other animal.


where it is true that we are usually born with such an ability, it puzzles me why we live a lifetime purposefully destroying it.


If we could only destroy, we wouldn't be able to achieve any of the things we have. Like, for instance, the computer you are using post in this forum.

And I don't quite get what you are addressing as "destroying". Don't confuse knowledge with intellect. Being smart doesn't necessarily mean that you are a person with a lot of knowledge, and/or vice-versa.


what other animal does that, ever ?


None. Because they can't destroy what they don't have...


if not opposable thumbs, we'd be discussing the length of our arms & legs or the size of our feet or or or ... that, unfortunately, is the human way.


Opposable thumbs are considered the main trigger for intelligence in humans because it's the only factual and touchable thing that separates us from other mammals.

It does also explain why humans developed an intellect. Making tools made us more efficient, and more efficiency (like, for instance, doing a task spending half the time) gave us time and freedom to pursue other things. Like, developing more tools, fire and language. We couldn't achieve that if we didn't have the opposable thumbs.

That cognitive exercise made our brains better from generation to generation, because after that episode in our development, having intelligence was more important than having strength, body-hair or big reproductive organs.

You didn't need to have the strength of a bear because you could build tools to do the job, and you didn't need to have body-hair like a bear because you could make coats, with cuts made with the knifes they invented... On the same note, you didn't need to run for miles or really fast, because you developed trap systems to catch food without effort.


competition/comparison without ever accepting that we are different for a REASON


We are different because we evolved that way...



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by Shuye
 



Why would Israel give up a land bigger than their own size, if they seek to expand their territory? Please share your genuine thoughts on this, I would like to hear them out.


Personally, I have the opinion that the territorial disputes are nothing more than buffer zones. They are fairly common in many countries, but people seem to be unable to understand them in the context of Israel and Palestine.

For instance, nobody makes a fuss about the DMZ between North Korea and South Korea. That DMZ has the same objective as the buffer zones around Israel.

Looking at the several wars in the region, I've come to the conclusion that Israel pushes back any offensive, and then retains a portion of that territory for defense. Which makes sense, because you can only defend yourself from a massive attack if you see it coming, within a plausible time-span.

Personally, I dislike the "terrorist" and "zionist" remarks so present in ATS, because most of them are emotionally based, without any substance, when it's actually a much more complex situation. I find it odd, for instance, that many of the so-called pacifists in ATS fail to mention that after the initial Israeli proposal, the arab nations declared war on Israel on the following day, disregarding several peace agreements, in which you could find several economical and safety measures, that would help both sides.

It's kind of ironic to see all the rage in the arab side, when in true fairness, it was due to their jumpy attitude that peace never had a chance in that area. After that day, it was a game of action-consequence for both sides.

Making it across-generations only aggravates the problem because now you have children who don't even remember peace, or anything else but fanatic points of view.

Like I usually say, the only obstacle to peace is ignorance.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by GarrusVasNormandy
 


Personally, I dislike the "terrorist" and "zionist" remarks so present in ATS, because most of them are emotionally based, without any substance, when it's actually a much more complex situation. I find it odd, for instance, that many of the so-called pacifists in ATS fail to mention that after the initial Israeli proposal, the arab nations declared war on Israel on the following day, disregarding several peace agreements, in which you could find several economical and safety measures, that would help both sides. (unquote)

that does not make sense at all.

zionist is the name of a political group-no emotion there.

terrorist applys to those who practice terror- applied to your perceived enemy.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by orangutang
reply to post by GarrusVasNormandy
 


Personally, I dislike the "terrorist" and "zionist" remarks so present in ATS, because most of them are emotionally based, without any substance, when it's actually a much more complex situation. I find it odd, for instance, that many of the so-called pacifists in ATS fail to mention that after the initial Israeli proposal, the arab nations declared war on Israel on the following day, disregarding several peace agreements, in which you could find several economical and safety measures, that would help both sides. (unquote)

that does not make sense at all.

zionist is the name of a political group-no emotion there.

terrorist applys to those who practice terror- applied to your perceived enemy.


Most people in ATS that use those terms have very little understanding of the proper time and context in which such expressions apply.

That's what I meant.





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