Mursi: The New Pharoah?

There are some who still support President Mursi attempt to grab power, no matter how supposedly temporary it can be. Made more difficult to believe it will be temporary when the constitution is NOT even agreed upon yet.

The supporters claimed that the nation is in deep trouble with corruption, economic failure, endermic unemployment, constitutional crisis, etc, and believe that a dictator will set things right, even if that dictatorship last for years.

Let us reflect upon the lessons of history.

China, a staunch Karl Marx Communist State with Maoist self style repressive dictatorship, began its journey into reforms in 1979, without FIRST reforming the powerful administrative organs of state.

As a result, thanks to authoritarian rule and 'guanxi' ( connections to power), the crony administrators of state grew corruptively rich under dictatorship rule. The legislatives were mere rubber stamps, The judiciary is joke, as the different branches of govt grew fat on authoritarian rule.

Muslims may claim that China is an atheist state, without any divine moral or ethical guidance, thus their failures. They are correct. But then lets look at Islam after the death of Allah's last messenger - prophet Muhammad. Had the Caliphs been any better?

Some of them were truly great, but unfortunately, many more were a horror to the muslims they claim to lead, so much that by Allah's mercy and compassion, the caliphate was destroyed in 1911, just as monarchy was destroyed in the western christian world, where only constitutional monarchies remain.

Prophet Muhammad understood the fallibility of flawed mortals, and thus he refused to give power to any single individual, although he had ALL the time to do so, and hope that his followers will learn to make the right choices by selecting an assembly using moral and ethical guidelines from the sacred Koran to administer to the community, and NOT by the twisted interpretations by mortals known as the 7th century 'Sharia Law' which sole aim is to keep the Caliph as a god-on-Earth and muslims illiterate, at the mercy of others.

The road to Hell is often paved with good intentions. President Mursi may seem to be doing the right thing, but history had proven authoritarianism solves nothing but create even more hate and divisions within the community.

Better leave it to elected legislative parliament, no matter how difficult it may be, or how long it takes. Humans are prone to errors, but do have the capacity to acknowledge and correct errors to progress and evolve. Presuming that full authority by one will solve all problems is only mere fantasy, as proven by history.

Worse will be when the problems grow with the power within one mortal instead of being resolved. All that he had believed in, his judgements, etc, will be taunted in full, and be despised forever as being a fool, as China today, after 30 years of reform, dictatorship and corruption, is despised by the more knowledgeable.

Originally posted by infowarrior9970
this is just more war-mongering propaganda blah blah terrorists everywhere blah blah we hate all others countries who hate Israel mumbo jumbo.

your intentions are as transparent as glass.

Well so much for the MB.

The Egyptians themselves took the situation seriously enough and are ripping the Government a new one as I type...

According to the statements issued from President Mursi, it seems that the reason for the usurpation of all powers unto himself was due to the judiciary holding firm positions and blocking the drafting of the constitution.

It is comprehensible that he would feel that way. Under normal circumstances, the judiciary is appointed by the President, but they are selected by parliament first or a congressional committe to forward those appointees to the President, with the best candidates vetted by the legislators for him to select the best to fill the judiciary appointments.

The present experienced and learned judges in the judiciary were ex-appointees of the Mubarack regime, but are now part of the transitional govt- the team that was formed by the military to ensure peace and order after Mubarack was ousted to end chaos so that all may live unmolested in the meantime while a democratic govt is being formed, and agreed upon by the general population, to oversee the legal aspects of the revolution to move towards a democratic state in peace.

Once the legal issues of state are resolved, they will rightfully stand down and allow the new democratic parliament to appoint new judiciary members.

There were still legal issues with the proposed constitution that were unresolved, but the MB and President Mursi placed the blame for delay upon the judiciary for hindering the process and further delaying the necessary reforms for Egypt.

And thus, President Mursi decided unilaterally that he should seized god-like power immediately as a means to hasten the process, bypassing the judiciary, to either write the constitution himself or approve the constitution as he sees fit unchallenged by any mortal.

The decree came with expiration date of supposed within 2 months or 4 months, or until the completion of the constitution is finally agreed upon by all parties.

1. The expiry date is vague, for there is actually no time limit, as none knows when the constitution will be completed and agreed upon, and agreed upon by WHOM.


2. The decree itself is illegal in the first place, as it was not even debated, or legislated by a working parliament. Not only that, the decree's scopes are vague and not in detail as to what is right or wrong, but gives unlimited power to the President to practically do anything he wish as he interpretate situations during the power's tenure, which can last forever if he so wish.


3. The decree only makes a farce out of the entire democratic process and the sacrifices made by the revolution to topple tyranny, as right now, the constitution that sees the light will come from one mortal alone, without any checks and balance by the branches of a truly elected and sworned, approved govt.


Best that President Mursi lays NO claim to divine will or guidances to such grabbing for god-like powers, for that would only mean blasphemy, as prophet Muhammad had already warned that he himself is the last divine messenger from Allah. Anyone else who makes such claims are apostates and should be served with justice.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

According to the statements issued from President Mursi, it seems that the reason for the usurpation of all powers unto himself was due to the judiciary holding firm positions and blocking the drafting of the constitution.

Do you have any more specifics on this?

I'm trying to figure out what's going on.

I thought I read that some kind of Constituency Council (or some other council) was responsible for helping to draft the constitution and that the ones that were on the council that weren't Muslim felt like they weren't being heard and were quitting, thus the reason for the delay of the constitution.

Anyone know more?

Originally posted by dontreally
Well, this is an interesting take on democracy...

Egypt's President Mohammed Mursi has issued a declaration banning challenges to his decrees, laws and decisions.

The declaration also says no court can dissolve the constituent assembly, which is drawing up a new constitution

Mr ElBaradei said the new declaration effectively placed the president above the law. "Mursi today usurped all state powers and appointed himself Egypt's new pharaoh. A major blow to the revolution that could have dire consequences," the Nobel Peace Prize winner wrote on his Twitter account.

Who couldn't have predicted this would happen? Who still believes Mursi and his Muslim Brotherhood intend to maintain the camp david peace treaty with Israel??

The Egyptian revolution was a joke...played on ignorant and naive westerners. The Muslim Brotherhood has predictably usurped democracy by passing laws that subvert democracy. Now that they are in power, who will take them out?

Mubarak, whatever you feel about him, kept the peace in the region. Mursi will start new wars.

LinkYes this is very worrying.We liked Mubarack because he was secular.All bets are off now,probably the peace treaty also.

Today, the fundamentalist muslim brotherhood had brought thousands of their foolish supporters into Egypt to support the Caliphate of a mortal to determine the regulation of all Egyptian life.

The progressive muslim secularists Egyptians need not fear. They had already done a good and conscionable job to reject regressive tyranny by OCCUPYING Tahrir square to keep the revolution to be free. Freedom does not come from man but only by Allah, and the holy spirit that lives in all mankind with free will gifted,is to be responsibly free.

The occupation and protests are but only shows. Islam is more than just OUTWARD forms. It comes from the heart where Allah lives in.

With the spirit to be responsibly free, the answer to a democracy is through the sacred vote when done in all honesty.

The muslim brotherhood may claim that they have grassroot support. But they are not gods, only mortals. What one mortal can do, so too can another.

It is time for the progressive muslim secularist Egyptian to mobilise support from grassroots too - reaching out through the media, social media, words of mouth and most critically of all, beginning with one's family, relatives and friends that when combined, makes up the entire Egyptian society, and based upon TRUTHS.

The return to 7th century Shariah laws or even by in principle is but a regression of what prophet Muhammad would NOT have wanted. Worse today with a caliph and rubber stamping parliament ready anytime to use tyranny as a means to get his way, already proven clearly now.

Pre-Islam of the Arabian lands was steeped in paganism and tribal jungle laws. Such traditions were hard to reformed, and sadly, prophet Muhammad had no choice but to incorporate much of those traditions (sunnah) into Islam, so that those pagan arabs controlling Mecca, the crossroad of all commerce and economy, will accept his reformist and progressive teachings.

He was only a simple man from an almost impoverish tribe but chosen by Allah because he had been a humanitarian - shared his wealth with all, took care of ophans, widows, the bullied, the weak and the underpriviledged classes, a social worker and reflection of who truly Allah is, who loved us all by His compassion.

But he was rejected in Mecca by the selfish and their bootlicking supporters, and thus the need for him to tailor as much as possible, the better practices of the pre-islamic times of tribal arabia. He was never a tyrant, nor sought to be one, but being the divine messenger of Allah and guided by Him, there were issues that he had to deal with alone.

However, he made clear he was the last divine messenger, and any other who claimed as much is a liar and must be brought to justice. His teachings from Allah was only a continuation of Allah's will and what he had done to alleviate the life of the common people, to share, and to progress and evolve. The truth will prevail.

Equally, this new educated generation of muslims must complete the progressive path laid out by the prophet, to progress and evolve Islam, unlike the failure regressive muslim brotherhood.

Some claimed that Egypt needs 'strong leadership'. Unfortunately, only the weak minded and incapable needs such tyrannical leaderships. And true muslim Egyptians had NEVER been weak, only made to believe that they are weak and thus manipulated to submit to the will of a mortal, instead of submitting to Allah. such as the times of roman pre-islamic arabia, various unconsionable caliphates and worse of all - the Ottoman Caliphate which Allah by His mercy destroyed totally in 1911, to restart Islam anew.

As long Egyptians do not give up being humans, be free, by doing the best with brains and not by apathy, the true will of Allah will manifest, as it did in the booting out of the corrupted tyrant Mubarack.

I'll let the latest news speak for itself. It should get interesting in the next two weeks.

Egyptian President Mohammed Mursi called a Dec. 15 referendum on a draft constitution and urged a national dialogue on the "concerns of the nation" as the country nears the end of the transition from Hosni Mubarak's rule.

Liberals, leftists and Christians walked out of the constituent assembly, leaving a largely Islamist panel in charge of drafting the charter which has been criticized for failing to represent all Egyptians.

"Mursi put to referendum a draft constitution that undermines basic freedoms & violates universal values. The struggle will continue," tweeted leading dissident and former U.N. nuclear watchdog chief Mohamed ElBaradei.

Tens of thousands of anti-Mursi protesters have claimed over the past few days the draft restricts freedom of speech, minorities’ rights, and places other limitations on freedoms.

The thousands protesting in front of Alexandria’s Al-Qaed Ibrahim Mosque, demanded the dissolution of the Constituent Assembly, and urged Mursi and Prime Minister Hesham Qandil to step down, reported the privately-owned Egypt Independent.

english.alarabiya.net...

reply to post by dontreally


LOL. Prophecies getting fulfilled damn near on a daily basis. But oh wait, TPTB are just using the scriptures as a playbook.

Down.

Set!

Hike!

It is with great sadness as I write this.

Condolences to the slained victims' families who lost their loved ones, regardless of which side as well as to the hundreds injured. May Allah, the ever compassionate, grant them speedy recovery, both physically and mentally.

The Muslim Brotherhood had attempted to spin it as those who opposed them had caused the hurt and harm, but there can be no denying that the oppositions, whom had been protesting for days without any violence, is not the cause. Even the burning of MB offices were only empty buildings.

The hurt and harm had only occured when MB stormed into the peaceful protestors at the palace.

Credit must be given where credit is due. President Mursi had not wanted this to take place with his call to stop the police and army from harming anyone.

Unfortunately, as harm and hurt had happened, President Mursi alone will have to take full responsibility, more so as he had demanded for blasphemous god-like powers on Earth. If not, he had only proven he cannot even control hardline elements in his party.

If the hardliners within the muslim brotherhood want their way, then it is best that they rename themselves as Tribal Arab Fraternity political group, so as NOT to profane the name of Islam muslim followers or fool true muslims. Killing and fighting against muslims brothers is already against the Koran, not that it is even ok to fight against non-muslims whom had not threatened anyone.

Harassing women protestors is another blasphemy to Islam. May the hardliners know that the Hijab was never intended by the prophet, except when he had his last marriage alliance with a very beautiful lady, and as he was an open and transparant leader who welcome all into his home, a curtain ( hijab) was placed between his private rooms to prevent distractions, and NOT because women needed to be hidden.

If supposed to be hidden, he would not have brought his wives to military campaigns and let them talk and motivate the troops, to remind them of their own women at home, the family unit, which they had undertook hardships for.

Hijab evolved after the prophet's passing on, thanks to insecured men, so too must Islam evolve to meet the needs of a growing, educted and technologically based generations. Compromising intelligently and egalistarianly is not evil, so long as the ESSENCE and purpose of what the prophet had taught 1300 years ago remains.

Sharia laws are still laws to keep a society in order, BUT unfortunately, true shariah laws have authoritarianism embedded within are an open invitation to dictatorship, something that Allah and His divine messenger sent had not wanted. Allah trusted no more the rule by one man alone with his cronies, but by an assembly to progress the ethnic pagan tribal arabs through moral and ethical guides taught, and thus no man was appointed after the prophet's passing on.

Even the prophet had to pray to Allah to decide if his mortal cousin Ali, could be made a teacher, let alone leader of Islamic nation, which entails pragmatic far sighted civil responsiblities while on Earth, governing, time and efforts convincing different peoples gifted with equal divine gifted free will, to unity , different from higher spiritual teachings for the muslim soul. When mortals , instead of Allah, forced the issue of making Ali leader instead of teacher, it led to the conflict that lasted till today between Shias and Sunnis.

Thus, the hardliners best wake up to reality, and the rest within MB consider carefully the actions they support. And most critically now, desist from any further violence upon our common Creator's children. How deep is your love for Allah, who egalistarianly cares for all mankind rich or poor, male or female, true muslims will ask of the MB today, or was it temporal greed of power, arrogant tribalism belligerances and priviledges that MB seeks?

So the president had seemed to give up his dictatorship decree. Yet the constitution he approved as a dictator remains on the table for the referendum. And authorised the powers of the military to make arrests on protestors. Martial law? and he still dares to claim that he had given up dictatorial powers? Who is he trying to fool?

The side of Good often depended on the rule of law and laws/constitution by the vote. That is how democracy works. But Evil is not stupid. Evil adapts, seeks to understand the rules well so as to be able to make use of the very same rules that the Good uses, to fool others inorder to win.

Non violence protests against the president is within the rights of humanity and nation.

But a dictator will not fear protests. Throw in a few armed trouble makers to fire upon the military/police, get reaction and then make arrests, blame upon the innocent protestors- the protests will end in fear.

It seems that the referendum will be forcefully pushed through. But there is no need to fear, and MOST CRITICALLY, NEVER to abandon the vote.

Evil knows that when Good abandons the very basic foundation of democracy - the vote, Evil will win as democracy depends on majority vote, and not on non votes.

For example:- If Evil has 1000 voters, and Good had 10,000 voters, but if Good refuses to vote, Evil will win. It's a numbers game. That's how the president won with only 1% differences, as many voters refused to vote.

The MB supporters are praying and hoping that many more WILL NOT vote in the referendum, as it will means the minority will win with their votes, for democracy is based upon majority votes, not non-votes, even if it had been a minority but had voted.

Thus may the opposition leaders be aware, and make sure EVERYONE votes as is each's responsibility as a citizen of a soveriegn state. There is no need to force anyone to vote against their free will. But one can still convince the other based upon facts, logic and reasons to make the right choice.

It does not matter who wins in the end in a democracy. Winners do have the right to their platform and chosen because of their capabilities, and the nation based upon majority votes had made their choice, right or wrong, but the losers will have to assess why they fail, and to come out with better planning next time. That's democracy.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


I don't see this ending well.

You are right, the opposition should go ahead and vote anyway. What have they got to lose? If they're strong enough, they can still try to overthrow Morsi after the fact if they think there's a rigged system. However, based on their nature, I doubt that they'll consider voting on something they deem illegitimate in the first place.

70% of eligible egyptian voters had not bothered to vote, and thus left the fate of the nation upon the 30% who voted.

And out of the 30%, the Islamists won by over 60%. The Islamist Constitution thus stands. The 30% odd whom voted against the Constitution will have to look at the 70% who did not vote, for by their apathy, their non-vote had became a YES vote for the Islamist Constitution.

May that 70% wake up now, for it is too late to change anything.

However, the parliamentary elections are due to take place. If the same voting style persists with majority of egyptians being apathetic, or the opposition fails to reach out to them through grassroots movements, to help them consider carefully the options, it is most likely that the Islamists will win this round.

Such is democracy, and it is my hope that Mursi will NEVER, ever use that rod of dictatorship again. Once tasted such powers over the nation, it will become addictive. Power corrupts all and Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The egyptian cycle of building up and tearing down again must end. Compromises must be made, so that ALL can co-exist in peace, security and progress....

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


70% didn't vote because vast swathes of Egyptians (which is indicative of the Arab world at large) are illiterates. Couple that with the intimidation tactics of Islamists and you can arrive at a plausible explanation for why there's such sparse participation in Egyptian democracy.

This could also be the built up residue of Islamicate (to borrow a term of Daniel Pipes) political institutions: Arabs are not used to democracy; they're used to having their politics being determined by an "elite" priestly class - the ulama - who tell them how things are going to be.

Like their women who are forced to wear a head garb, the Islamic masses are inured from participation in public matters. They are accustomed to being ruled, to following rules, and not challenging the authority too much so as to upset their daily routine.

A break from this political insouciance is the Palestinians. Between the years 1967 and 1990, the Palestinian economy prospered. Living standards had eclipsed living standards in other arab countries. Notwithstanding this perk of Israel-Palestinian economic cooperation, when Arafat returned and the PLO received acclamation, Palestinians exchanged their prosperity for political "self determination". This self determination meant economic aid from the UN; which further meant indolence, laziness and lack of an entrepreneurial drive. This led to economic downturns in the PA economy, and of course, blame of Israel.

reply to post by dontreally


I agree with you on the issue of the egyptians' education level and the level of fundamentalist islamic subjugation that they had been exposed to by ignorant clerics in their towns and villages.

The facts are clear. It is time to act. May the secularists, whom are true muslims, bring along a few muslim scholars to help educate the villagers' mind. Islam had NEVER been intended to be a tyranny as that which had practised by their village moron uneducated and ill-informed clerics.

Prophet Muhammad had intended equality for all, to be free, and to freely question anything. He never hid information, nor chastisize anyone who criticized him and his teachings during his lifetime, but only sought to engage his critics in meaningful dialogue, to change minds to progress and evolve away from the barbarism that the arabs descended from.

Egypt had been an advanced nation in the past and mentioned even in the earliest chronicles of the hebrew ethnic group. They had a much earlier history and hold much secrets, for they were the only known nation that spoke of a mythical advanced civilisation - Atlantis, to the greeks.

Egypt may hold much more secrets to man's origins, under the pyramid sands. But it seems there forces that are hell bent on denying the ancient heritage of the Egyptians, to wipe the past away, even prophet Muhammad's, by instituting their own version of fundamentalist impetuous Umar styled teachings that are only mis-interpretated from the good and uplifting prophet's teachings for the arabs.....