Mursi: The New Pharoah?

page: 1
4
<<   2 >>

log in

join

posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 01:07 PM
link   
Well, this is an interesting take on democracy...


Egypt's President Mohammed Mursi has issued a declaration banning challenges to his decrees, laws and decisions.

The declaration also says no court can dissolve the constituent assembly, which is drawing up a new constitution



Mr ElBaradei said the new declaration effectively placed the president above the law. "Mursi today usurped all state powers and appointed himself Egypt's new pharaoh. A major blow to the revolution that could have dire consequences," the Nobel Peace Prize winner wrote on his Twitter account.


Who couldn't have predicted this would happen? Who still believes Mursi and his Muslim Brotherhood intend to maintain the camp david peace treaty with Israel??

The Egyptian revolution was a joke...played on ignorant and naive westerners. The Muslim Brotherhood has predictably usurped democracy by passing laws that subvert democracy. Now that they are in power, who will take them out?

Mubarak, whatever you feel about him, kept the peace in the region. Mursi will start new wars.

Link




posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 01:22 PM
link   
reply to post by dontreally
 


It looks like we're on the same wavelength today!

I'll copy my post over here to your thread, so the mods can delete my thread.

While everyone is focusing on Egypt's new President as the key negotiator for maintaining a ceasefire agreement between Israel and Gaza, Egypt is suffering from protests of their own as Mursi makes "revolutionary" announcements regarding the country and their new constitution....that may end up leaving the country divided itself!

"Reactions to Egypt’s new decrees include Mursi branded as ‘Pharaoh’"

english.alarabiya.net...

Here are some of Mursi's decrees...

“The president can issue any decision or measure to protect the revolution,” according to a decree read out on television by presidential spokesman Yasser Ali.

“The constitutional declarations, decisions and laws issued by the president are final and not subject to appeal.”

Mursi also sacked prosecutor general Abdel Meguid Mahmud, whom he failed to oust last month, appointing Talaat Ibrahim Abdallah to replace him, who was immediately sworn in on Thursday night.


Here are some of the reactions...

Nobel laureate and former U.N. atomic energy agency chief Mohamed ElBaradei lashed out at the declaration, which effectively puts the president above judicial oversight.

“Mursi today usurped all state powers and appointed himself Egypt’s new pharaoh. A major blow to the revolution that could have dire consequences,” ElBaradei wrote on his Twitter account.



“The revolution will not accept a new dictator in Egypt,” said leftist former candidate Hamdeen Sabahi.

“Egypt is looking for solutions and the president driven more problems,” Sabahi added.



Meanwhile Amr Moussa, ex-candidate and former Arab League chief, said: “I fear renewed unrest following Mursi’s decrees.”


Can't wait to see what the entire draft Constitution holds when they finally release it.

Is anyone really surprised? I think a lot of us familiar with the Muslim Brotherhood saw this coming a long time ago.
edit on 22-11-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 01:26 PM
link   
reply to post by dontreally
 

yes I am really surprised. I thought Muslim brotherhood would act popularly but what I am seeing is that they are after dictatorship ! terrorism in Syria !! and even they send loving letters to Israel !!! Egyptians are not so good with Israel !!!!



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 01:30 PM
link   
I think it is more along the lines of - Morsi: The New Mubarak. In turn Mubarak was the new Sadat, who was the new Nasser.

A country that never had experience with democracy, and which does not have a strong social and economic base to support a democracy, can hardly be expected to become one overnight. There isn't a place in Middle East of North East Africa where this worked effectively (excluding Israel). The US isn't very interested in there being a real democracy in Egypt - they are mainly concerned with keeping Egypt as a peaceful client-state.



Originally posted by dontreally
Who couldn't have predicted this would happen? Who still believes Mursi and his Muslim Brotherhood intend to maintain the camp david peace treaty with Israel??


Actually I am hardly surprised. I always maintained that all Arab Spring revolts are a part of rinse and repeat cycle, with new regimes coming to power.

I do think Egypt will maintain the peace treaty. Morsi may be associated with the Muslim Brotherhood, but he is a pragmatic politician regardless of idealogy. Egypt stands to gain nothing from abolishing the treaty, and they will lose significant US and possibly European aid at the time they need it most. Their military is certainly in no shape to face off against Israel. Morsi wants what all totalitarian leaders want - complete power. He will get what he wants by cooperating with the US.



Originally posted by dontreally
The Egyptian revolution was a joke...played on ignorant and naive westerners.


You are correct. The Western governments however have always known what to expect. Mubarak was an ally, but they decided the risks of supporting him against the protesters are not worth is, so they cast their lot with Morsi, knowing well enough what his intentions will be.

The whole "revolution" and "democracy" stamps are just demagogy for the masses to eat up, so people aren't asking what the hell US and Europe are trying to do exactly. "Oh we are just supporting democracy in the making" - how can anyone question that?



Originally posted by dontreally
The Muslim Brotherhood has predictably usurped democracy by passing laws that subvert democracy. Now that they are in power, who will take them out?


There never was democracy. There was only a transition from one regime to another under a thin veil of the democratic process. Who will take them out? They will likely run their course in power over the next 10-30 years (just like Mubarak), and some new revolutionary faction will overthrow them under pretenses of democracy. Rinse and repeat. US only has to ensure that each new regime plays by the rules and cooperates.



Originally posted by dontreally
Mubarak, whatever you feel about him, kept the peace in the region.


Mubarak was the more pragmatic and realistic among the Muslim leaders. For the first time Egypt's economy was really on the upswing under him. I think many outsiders, as well as Egyptians, will miss him. I am still of the opinion that US cast their lot with the opposition too quickly, and there was a good chance that Mubarak could have remained in power. Unlike Assad he also chose to step down rather than unravel a full scale Civil War. So yes, he kept peace.



Originally posted by dontreally
Mursi will start new wars.


Not if he knows what is good for him. He will probably indirectly intervene in some North African conflicts, but he won't make a move against Israel.



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 01:31 PM
link   
reply to post by maes2
 


After seeing Al Qaeda's video telling the Muslim Brotherhood to step it up and stop dragging it's feet on spreading "political Islam" (that came out in September right before the Benghazi attack), I was curious to see how soon the Muslim Brotherhood would respond.



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 01:33 PM
link   
Mubarak was a corrupted DICTATOR and deserved his fate.

The uprising was for a far nobler purpose - a soceity that leaves none behind.

President Mursi's attempt at the constitution will only bring tragedy later on.

The purpose of DEMOCRACY is to ensure NO MORTAL is given god-like powers over humanity on Earth. Even the prophet Muhammad, a DIVINE messenger from ALLAH, taught that by NOT appointing any ruler, but taught that all men are equal, and with the sacred Koran's moral and eithical guidelines, to form an assembly to administer to the needs of muslims.

What President Mursi had done is ABOMINABLE, to not only muslims, but to ALL living in a democratic Egypt, won by ALL effort to topple the dictator.

In a democracy, it is fully comprehensible when there will be times of emergency that certain laws need to be enacted for the sake of all, and cannot be challenged by those with little foresight or plain belligerances.

However, what is a parliament for?

It is made up of ELECTED representatives by the People as well, to act on their behalf on issues of State.

If President Mursi wants emergency powers, it must come from parliament whom are the only ones fully capable of writing the national constitution after debate, NOT the President.

And if President Mursi wants such powers, then EQUALLY, the power to IMPEACH elected representatives including him MUST be gtiven to parliament, a body made up of many members.

One can hope to bribe, or con a few members, but there is no way to con all parliament, nor will the electorate allow it without turning out in Tahir Square enmass.

Some may feel President Mursi may seem the right man and give in, but once written into law, it is casted in stone and difficult if not impossible to remove. Who knows whom will follow after him? What if somehow a paedophile gets elected to be the president and demand each and everyone's precious children spread open their legs to strangers?

Is this power Egyptians want to give to the President? May Egyptians be wise.



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 01:44 PM
link   
reply to post by maloy
 





I do think Egypt will maintain the peace treaty. Morsi may be associated with the Muslim Brotherhood, but he is a pragmatic politician regardless of idealogy. Egypt stands to gain nothing from abolishing the treaty, and they will lose significant US and possibly European aid at the time they need it most.


If Egypt maintains the peace treaty, we might see Hamas firing rockets into Egypt next and blaming it on Israel! (jk...maybe)

Yes, from what I read, Egypt is awaiting a $4.8 Billion payout from the IMF.


The agreement would go to the IMF board to be finalized on December 19 with the first tranche of the loan to be released immediately the board approved the deal, IMF officials said.

"I expect that the board will agree on the deal," Abdel Shakour Shalaan, Middle East representative on the IMF board, told the news conference.


www.reuters.com...

Release of Egypt's constitution draft has just been delayed for two more months according to my previous link.



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 01:54 PM
link   

Originally posted by Deetermined
If Egypt maintains the peace treaty, we might see Hamas firing rockets into Egypt next and blaming it on Israel! (jk...maybe)


Well Morsi's government already had a run-in with militants from Gaza after the Sinai-Israel border incident last year. To what extent Hamas was involved with that is unclear of course. But Hamas will not start any conflict with Egypt, because Egypt is the only route for armament coming into Gaza. Egypt never really enjoyed this role, being stuck in the middle of a shuffle between Israel and Hamas. It has to maintain peace with both, and yet has its share of issues with both.

I do think that it was not accidental that Hamas chose this timing to provoke this conflict right now. It is testing the ground with Egypt, to see how Egypt will respond and to what lengths Egypt will go to intervene. It is also probing to see how much dissent there is among the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, and if those who are more radical than Morsi will step up to the plate.



Originally posted by Deetermined
Yes, from what I read, Egypt is awaiting a $4.8 Billion payout from the IMF.



What is not being talked about a lot in the media, is the catastrophic state of Egypt's economy. If it degrades any further, Morsi may very well see a new revolt against him. His future hinges on him getting this aid. Israel, Hamas, and US all understand that very well.
edit on 22-11-2012 by maloy because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 02:05 PM
link   
reply to post by maloy
 





I do think that it was not accidental that Hamas chose this timing to provoke this conflict right now.


Personally, I thought Hamas was stirring up the pot before the November 29th General Assembly vote on making the Palestinian Authority an observer at the U.N. I don't think Hamas or Iran wants the P.A. one step closer to declaring a state of Palestine. I think they all know that the U.N. would require that "Palestine" recognize Israel as a state first before declaring them a state of their own. Never gonna happen.



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 02:13 PM
link   

Originally posted by Deetermined
Personally, I thought Hamas was stirring up the pot before the November 29th General Assembly vote on making the Palestinian Authority an observer at the U.N.


That could very well be a part of it.



Originally posted by Deetermined
I don't think Hamas or Iran wants the P.A. one step closer to declaring a state of Palestine. I think they all know that the U.N. would require that "Palestine" recognize Israel as a state first before declaring them a state of their own. Never gonna happen.


Agreed. Hamas is pretty content running their little mafia state in Gaza. It a convinient thorn in everyone's side - Israel's, P.A.'s, and Egypt's. And I don't see anything changing anytime soon. And that is why this is not the last conflict we see there, not by a long shot. I would be highly surprised if the next Israel-Gaza shoot-out doesn't occur in the next five years. And of course then you will once again see people get all excited for a couple of week and flock to online forums to voice their opinions deeply rooted in human rights, origin of Israel, genocide, terrorism, and everything else imaginable. And the funny thing it never gets old, and it never changes. It is as predictable as the seasons changing.



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 02:26 PM
link   

Originally posted by dontreally
Well, this is an interesting take on democracy...


Egypt's President Mohammed Mursi has issued a declaration banning challenges to his decrees, laws and decisions.

The declaration also says no court can dissolve the constituent assembly, which is drawing up a new constitution



Mr ElBaradei said the new declaration effectively placed the president above the law. "Mursi today usurped all state powers and appointed himself Egypt's new pharaoh. A major blow to the revolution that could have dire consequences," the Nobel Peace Prize winner wrote on his Twitter account.


Who couldn't have predicted this would happen? Who still believes Mursi and his Muslim Brotherhood intend to maintain the camp david peace treaty with Israel??

The Egyptian revolution was a joke...played on ignorant and naive westerners. The Muslim Brotherhood has predictably usurped democracy by passing laws that subvert democracy. Now that they are in power, who will take them out?

Mubarak, whatever you feel about him, kept the peace in the region. Mursi will start new wars.

Link


this is just more war-mongering propaganda blah blah terrorists everywhere blah blah we hate all others countries who hate Israel mumbo jumbo.

your intentions are as transparent as glass.



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 03:09 PM
link   
I think the foriegn policy we are persuing is one of great complexity to bring to fruit.
I think i percieve a tumultuous future for many of the countries, just at different stages simultaneously, so they cannot get too pally with each other internationally to oppose any moves by ISrael/US et al.
Perhaps we are relying on the diversity of factions to provide the turbulance, with gentle nudges of funding and arms from time to time....Thus keeping a low intensity(in hardware) conflict or more bubbling in many of these places for a long time to come....
This would be a perfect arms market, and a great incentive for the differing power groups to barter oil for arms etc at cheap prices.....
If one supplied the Kurds say for example, with enough arms to raise a signifigant fighting force, and then supplied them with markets for oil (Mosul is floating on it...)
and thereafter facilitated the whole Kurdish Homeland idea with help to other kurds in Turkey, Iran, and Iraq.
Youd have the makings of a "Limited conflict" which would consume the available budgets of all three countries as the
war for the homeland suddenly expanded....and keep then in a sellers mood for oil deals as well as a buyers mood for weapons.....
All for the cost of supporting the Kurds one could tie up these players for some years and make enormous profits too.....
Thats just the Kurds though....
Then theres the Shiias.....The Sunnis again, maybe, and other groups that would be ideal for this sort of distraction.....
All the while we would be bleeding the oil, and the oil money at the same stroke.
AND we would be making sure that the middle east was in turmoil enough that no signifigant large power bloc could be formed......



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 03:58 PM
link   
reply to post by dontreally
 


the Syrian rebels are a bigger threat to Israel than Egypt will ever be



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 04:17 PM
link   
reply to post by coolieno99
 


Oh, I'm well aware of that. Do you speak Arabic? What's the translation to this?



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 04:50 PM
link   
reply to post by maloy
 





A country that never had experience with democracy, and which does not have a strong social and economic base to support a democracy, can hardly be expected to become one overnight.


Why not address the most intractable fact of all: Islamism bases itself on a desire to implement Shari'a law nation wide. Shari'a is incompatible with protecting the rights of minorities.

Unless you've gone overboard into the sea of cultural relativism, Islamism is no real hotbed for the development of democracy. And when the Islamist's make wishes such as "we want to establish a caliphate with it's capital in Jerusalem", why even acknowledge them? Why not call a spade a spade and understand that promoting Islamism means promoting war?




I do think Egypt will maintain the peace treaty. Morsi may be associated with the Muslim Brotherhood, but he is a pragmatic politician regardless of idealogy.


Mursi issued threats during this recent debacle in Gaza that if Israel embarked on a ground offensive, there would be "serious repercussions".

Islamic leaders have been coming to Gaza acknowledging and supporting the Hamas regime. Hamas was created and established on the principles of the Muslim Brotherhood. Hamas declares in it's charter, it's schools, it's TV stations and its newspapers an unquenching desire to destroy the Jewish state. Thus, Hamas - and Egypts support of Hamas - insures that Mursi will be unable to maintain the peace treaty with Israel. The first adequate 'provocation', such as a ground invasion of Gaza, will be used a pretext for war against Israel.

This is all very predictable. Peace was made with a secular regime; it could only be maintained by a secularist regime. Mubarak could hardly be called a "Muslim", although of course he had to appease this base in Egypt if he was every to bring about some sort of stability,but he pursued policies, particularly with Israel, that were incredibly unpopular with religious Muslims. You think now that the Muslim Brotherhood is in government that this clamor won't grow louder? That the chances and probability haven't skyrocketed now that Mursi is in power? And has now just passed laws that secure him dictatorial authority? It's frightening to think what these powers might accomplish for him 5 years from now in shaping the Egyptian mentality.



Their military is certainly in no shape to face off against Israel. Morsi wants what all totalitarian leaders want - complete power. He will get what he wants by cooperating with the US.


Oh, I'm sure they have a long term strategy. They want to strengthen themselves politically, militarily, socially, and religiously, before they pull the curtain aside and execute their political agenda against Israel. But to assume no such agenda exists is laughably naive.



You are correct. The Western governments however have always known what to expect. Mubarak was an ally, but they decided the risks of supporting him against the protesters are not worth is, so they cast their lot with Morsi, knowing well enough what his intentions will be.


If they wanted, they could have supported Mursi, but perhaps the European socialist states who would like to see Israel's destruction compelled the Obama administration to follow suit.

There's only a very short term gain in supporting the Muslim Brotherhood and opposing Mubarak.

5 years from now, sensible people will understand how great a mistake it was.



There never was democracy.


I mean the 'popular vote'. The vote may have been democratic, but the subsequent government will be totalitarian, eviscerating whatever freedom that may have existed till that time. Liberals are either going to move somewhere else, or they're going to be trodden underfoot by the Islamizing policies of the Mursi government.

Egypt is still not sufficiently 'Islamic' in the eyes of Egypt's new government. I'm sure they'll want a few years to strengthen themselves before they do anything against Israel - and so renounce American foreign aid. I imagine the Islamists are hoping for further gains in Syria, Libya, Jordan, Lebanon and elsewhere. They've already got the big kahuna in Egypt; they also dominate the parliament in Tunisia...

There's an agenda here that spells very badly for liberalism and democracy in the middle east, and perhaps, the world at large.
edit on 22-11-2012 by dontreally because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 07:00 PM
link   
All I'm saying is if this guy wants to be a Pharaoh then he's going to need to drop the whole Muslim religion and re-install the old gods. Aren't they supposed to be coming back soon anyway?



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 07:08 PM
link   
reply to post by dontreally
 
I do enjoy your threads after work, they make me laugh...

If I may Quote a Respected Member of ATS , He sums it up Perfectly.

From Neo96:


WE HAVE ZERO RIGHT TO TELL ANY COUNTRY WHAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 07:21 PM
link   
"Egypt Judges Club says Mursi’s power decree an assault on judiciary"

english.alarabiya.net...


Egypt Judges Club Chairman Counselor Ahmad al-Zind told reporters that Mursi’s decree was “tragic,” adding that it “pained the nation.”

“This is an assault on the independence of the judiciary … The Egyptian people should decide their future,” Zind said.

The decree appeared to remove any uncertainty still hanging over the fate of the assembly writing the constitution. The body has faced a raft of legal challenges from plaintiffs who dispute its legality.

Critics say its popular legitimacy had been further called into doubt by withdrawals of many of its non-Islamist members who had complained their voices were not being heard. The constitution is a crucial element in Egypt's transition to democracy. New parliamentary elections will not be held until the document is completed and passed by a popular referendum.



"These decisions will feed discord in Egyptian politics and will be far from creating a favorable climate for restoration of economic growth," Mustapha Kamal Al-Sayyid, a professor of political science at Cairo University, told Reuters news agency.



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 08:31 PM
link   
reply to post by Tw0Sides
 


So you would defend that logic even if the nation in question says it would destroy you?

If you can "never" do it, that would mean that statement is absolute. The nation in question might be passionately expressing a desire to destroy your nation, is in the process of preparing itself to attack your nation, and still, you wouldn't change your policy? No country can pry into a nations activities - as if that nations policies wouldn't affect your own country?

I don't advocate interventionism, but it's still important to understand what sort of government and society will result from a Muslim Brotherhood government. It's ideology will be systematically infused into the popular culture. Fast forward 10-20 years, under these circumstances, you have an ideologically regnant population which seeks to establish an Islamic caliphate (a stated goal of the Muslim Brotherhood) and perhaps, seek to insinuate itself in non-Muslim societies, eventuating in a stand off between liberals and Islamists.

The leftists mentality towards Islamists simply ignores the ultimate consequence of this policy; strengthening Islamists means strengthening their ideological basis; and since their ideology contradicts our own, it will likely culminate in a civilizational crisis much worse than exists now.

It's not being alarmist. It's just reading what they write, and deducing from that the quandary that would be created between liberal countries of the world and the Islamist countries of the world. Since the latter consider world conquest a part of their program - and since they show such zeal (hamas is arabic for zeal) in pursuing the mission of Allah, there's every justifiable reason to believe they would be belligerent and pugnacious - just as the Ummayads were towards the western Roman empire, whom they won much of the orient from - and would seek to exert their power on others.



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 08:40 AM
link   
"Brotherhood offices torched in Egypt demos against Mursi" (11/23/12)


In Cairo, an array of liberal and secular groups, including activists at the forefront of the protest movement that forced veteran strongman Hosni Mubarak from power early last year, planned to march on Tahrir Square, Cairo's iconic protest hub, to demonstrate against the “ new pharaoh” .



Mursi's opponents poured into Tahrir Square after the main weekly Muslim prayers. They were expected to be joined by leading secular politicians Mohamed ElBaradei, a former UN nuclear watchdog chief, and Amr Mussa, a former foreign minister and Arab League chief.

“This is a coup against legitimacy... We are calling on all Egyptians to protest in all of Egypt's squares on Friday,” said Sameh Ashour, head of the lawyers' syndicate, in a joint news conference with ElBaradei and Mussa.



Following waves of angry protests that swept the country, Mursi’s consultative committee announced on Friday that it will announce on Saturday its stance towards the president’s constitutional declaration, Al Arabiya sources said.


english.alarabiya.net...





top topics
 
4
<<   2 >>

log in

join