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Rumi the Sufi, Islam, Jesus and the True Message Within - Angels, Humans and Watchers

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posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 12:47 PM
“Your task is not to seek for
love, but merely to seek and
find all the barriers within
yourself that you have built
against it.”

Mevlana Jalaluddin Rumi
1207-1273 AD

I have read the discourses of Rumi and the Poetry of Rumi for years. One thing that I grasp about Rumi is that he understood the message of Christ. His understanding of His messenger comes out clearly in his writings. Not only do his writings speak to the ultimate love of God for us all, his writings point to the message Jesus had for the Muslim people.

Rumi reveals the true meaning of Jihad and purging the soul of the infidel. The correct reading of the scriptures of the Muslim faith will reveal that the true enemy is within and not without. Pure belief in God is found in the message of the messenger. Jesus holds this true message to the infidel within us all. None of us are unequal as needing to purge all the barriers of love. Once we accomplish this goal and overcome the Earth, Air, Water and Fire, we finally see the point of the entire episode of human experience. The Sufi teachings of Rumi focus the Muslim mind to this truth if the true mystical meaning of the Quran is seen clearly. Rumi is the key.
God is an image. As such, He is a picture being examined by all people of the world. The only pure language to see God clearly is found by the Saint of God within a framework of Spiritual understanding. No matter your perspective of the image, the view tells the same story.

Do any of these Sufi Principles see familiar from the Bible?

I. Attain God through your spiritual master –
your master is God.

II. Devotion to your spiritual master – constant remembrance (“Dhikr”) is the path.

III. You may use devotional music to help strengthen your devotion.

IV. God lies within you - you must kill your animal spirit (“Nafs” or ego).

V. Knowledge is not as important as direct spiritual experience.

VI. Control your anger, lust and materialistic greed - control your mind.

VII. Devotion and faith are the corner-stones.

VIII. As you start evolving your suffering initially increases to cleanse you.

IX. Good and Bad mean different things as you evolve – the same rules don’t apply.

X. An evolved man will experience the results of his actions much faster (he who
rises higher falls harder).

XI. Your powers are not your own, they are as a result of the Grace of your spiritual

XII. Tremendous courage is needed to be a Sufi.

XIII. Ultimately, you must conquer lust if you want to achieve God

Here are links to some very good Spiritual insight.

My favorite from Rumi is the Discourses: Discourses of Rumi

Poetry of Rumi - Masnavi PDF

Outline of Rumi and the Spiritual Unity of all Believers

Here are a few interesting quotes from Rumi's Poetry that relate to a few of my recent threads. I outline these here to show the connection to Biblical knowledge of the Watchers.

He said, "O friends, God has given me inspiration.
Often times strong counsel is suggested to the weak.
The wit taught by God to the bee
Is withheld from the lion and the wild ass.
It fills its cells with liquid sweets,
For God opens the door of this knowledge to it.
The skill taught by God to the silkworm
Is a learning beyond the reach of the elephant.
The earthly Adam was taught of God names, 4
So that his glory reached the seventh heaven.
He laid low the name and fame of the angels, 5
Yet blind indeed are they whom God dooms to doubt!
The devotee of seven hundred thousand years (Satan)
Was made a muzzle for that yearling calf (Adam), 6
Lest he should suck milk of the knowledge of faith,
And soar on high even to the towers of heaven.
The knowledge of men of external sense is a muzzle
To stop them sucking milk of that sublime knowledge.
But God drops into the heart a single pearl-drop
Which is not bestowed on oceans or skies!"


While ye fear the doom of the angel on the left hand,
Men hope for the bliss of the angel on the right. 3
May you gain two wings! 4 A fowl with only one wing
Is impotent to fly, O well-intentioned one!
Now either permit me to hold my peace altogether,
Or give me leave to explain the whole matter.
And if you dislike this and forbid that,
Who can tell what your desire is?
You must have the soul of Abraham in order with light
To see the mansions of Paradise in the fire.
Step by step he ascended above sun and moon,
And so lagged not below, as a ring that fastens a door.
Since the "Friend of God" ascended above the heavens,
And said, "I love not Gods that set;" 5
So this world of the body is a breeder of misconceptions
In all who have not fled from lust.


Rumi knows the story of Enoch and Genesis

Ye shall know them by the strangeness of their speech." 1 This recalls the story of Harut and Marut, two angels who were very severe on the frailties of mankind, and whom God sent down upon the earth to be tempted, with the result that they both succumbed to the charms of the daughters of men. Then follows a long account of the birth of Moses, of Pharaoh's devices to kill him in his infancy, of his education in Pharaoh's house, of his desiring Pharaoh to let the children of Israel go, and of his contest with the magicians of Egypt, and his victory over them. In the course of the story the following anecdote is narrated:

A snake-catcher, who was following his occupation in the mountains, discovered a large snake frozen by the cold, and, imagining it to be dead, he tied it up and took it to Baghdad. There all the idlers of the city flocked together to see it, and the snake, thawed by the warmth of the sun, recovered life, and immediately destroyed the spectators.

Comparison of fleshly lust to the snake.

Lust is that snake; How say you it is dead?
It is only frozen by the pangs of hunger.
If it obtains the state of Pharaoh,
So as to command the (frozen) rivers to flow,
Straightway it is led to pride like Pharaoh's,
And it plunders the goods of many a Moses and Aaron.
Through pressure of want this snake is as a fly,
It becomes a gnat through wealth and rank and luxury.
Beware, keep that snake in the frost of humiliation,
Draw it not forth into the sunshine of 'Iraq!
So long as that snake is frozen, it is well;
When it finds release from frost you become its prey.
Conquer it and save yourself from being conquered,
Pity it not, it is not one who bears affection.
For that warmth of the sun kindles its lust,
And that bat of vileness flaps its wings.
Slay it in sacred war and combat,
Like a valiant man will God requite you with union.


To be continued in next post.......

edit on 22-11-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 12:54 PM
Though philosophers call man the microcosm, divines call him the macrocosm.

In outward form thou art the microcosm,
But in reality the macrocosm. 4
Seemingly the bough is the cause of the fruit, 5
But really the bough exists because of the fruit.
Were he not impelled by desire of fruit,
The gardener would never have planted the tree.
Therefore in reality the tree is born from the fruit,
Though seemingly the fruit is born from the tree.
For this cause Mustafa said, "Adam and all prophets
Are my followers and gather under my standard.
Though to outward view I am a son of Adam,
In reality I am his first forefather,
Because the angels worshipped him for my sake,
And 'twas in my footsteps that he ascended to heaven.
Hence in reality our first parent was my offspring,
As in reality the tree is born of its own fruit."
What is first in thought is last in act.
Thought is the special attribute of the Eternal.
This product goes forth from heaven very swiftly,
And comes to us like a caravan. 6
'Tis not a long road that this caravan travels;
Can the desert stop the deliverer?
The heart travels to the Ka'ba every moment,
And by divine grace the body acquires the same power.
Distance and nearness affect only the body,
What do they matter in the place where God is?
When God changes the body,
It regards not parasangs or miles.
Even on earth there is hope of approaching God.
Press on like a lover, and cease vain words, O son!

In the course of his rebuke to the messengers of Bilqis for bringing him mere gold instead of a humble heart, Solomon tells the story of the druggist who used soapstone or Persian earth for a weight. A man came to him to buy sugar-candy, and as he had no weight at hand, he used a lump of soapstone instead; but, while his back was turned, the purchaser stole a bit of the soapstone. The druggist, though he saw what he was doing, would not interrupt him, for he knew that the more soapstone the purchaser stole, the less sugar-candy he would get. In like manner the more men grasp at the transitory wealth of this world, the less they will obtain of the stable wealth of the world to come.

Ho! pious ones, build the lively temple of the heart,
That the Divine Solomon may be seen, and peace be upon you!
And if your demons and fairies be recalcitrant,
Your good angels must place collars on their necks.
If your demons go astray through guile and fraud,
Chastisement must overtake them swift as lightning.
Be like Solomon, so that your demons
May dig stones for your spiritual edifice.
Be like Solomon, free from evil thoughts and guile,
So that carnal demons and Jinns may be submissive to you.
Your heart is as Solomon's signet; take good care
That it falls not a prey to demons,
For then demons will rule over you as over Solomon.
Guard then your signet from the demons, and be at peace.


Then follow commentaries on the text, "O thou enfolded in thy mantle;" 34 on the proverb, "Silence is the proper answer to a fool;" on the Hadis, "God created the angels with reason and the brutes with lust, but man he created with both reason and lust; the man who follows reason is higher than the angels, and the man who follows lust is lower than the brutes;" on the text, "As to those in whose heart is a disease, it will add doubt to their doubt, and they shall die infidels," 35 and a comparison of the struggle between reason and lust to that between Majnun and his she-camel, he trying to get to his mistress Laila, and the she-camel trying to run home to her foal.


It was a moment when, according to the tradition, 'I was with God in such a manner that neither prophet nor angel found entrance along with me,' 2 and this man intruded between us. I desired no mercy save the king's blows; I sought no shelter save the king. If the king had cut off my head he would have given me eternal life in return for it. My duty is to sacrifice my life; it is the king's prerogative to give life. The night which is made dark as pitch by the king scorns the brightness of the brightest festal day. He who beholds the king is exalted above all thoughts of mercy and vengeance. Of a man raised to this exalted state no description is possible in this world, for he is hidden in God, and words like 'mercy' and 'vengeance' only express men's partial and weak views of the matter. It is true 'God taught Adam the names of all things,' 3 but that means the real qualities of things, and not such names as ordinary men use, clad in the dress of human speech. The words and expressions we use have merely a relative truth, and do not unfold absolute truth."

posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 12:58 PM
How Adam was created out of a handful of earth brought by an Angel.

When the Almighty determined to create mankind to be proved by good and evil, He deputed the angel Gabriel to bring a handful of earth for the purpose of forming Adam's body. Gabriel accordingly girded his loins and proceeded to the Earth to execute the divine commands. But the Earth, being apprehensive that the man so created would rebel against God and draw down God's curse upon her, remonstrated with Gabriel, and besought him to forbear. She represented that Gabriel would at the last day be pre-eminent over all the eight angels who would then support the throne, 1 and that it therefore was only right that he should prefer mercy to judgment. At last Gabriel granted her prayer, and returned to heaven without taking the handful of earth. Then God deputed Michael on the same errand, and the Earth made similar excuses to him, and he also listened to her crying, and returned to heaven without taking a handful. He excused himself to the Almighty by citing the example of the people to whom the prophet Jonah was sent, who were delivered from the threatened penalty in consequence of their lamentation for their sins; 2 and the text, "If He please, He will deliver you from that which ye shall cry to Him to avert." 3 Then God sent the angel Israfil on the same errand, and he also was diverted from the execution of it by a divine intimation. At last God sent 'Izrail, the angel of death, who, being of sterner disposition than the others, resolutely shut his ears to the Earth's entreaties, and brought back the required handful of earth. The Earth pressed him with the argument that God's command to bear away a handful of her substance against her will did not override the other divine command to take pity on suppliants; but 'Izrail would not listen to her, remarking that, according to the canons of theological interpretation, it was not allowable to have recourse to analogical reasoning to evade a plain and categorical injunction. He added, that in executing this injunction, painful though it might be, he was to be regarded only as a spear in the hand of the Almighty. The moral is, that when any of God's creatures do us a harm, we ought to regard them only as instruments of God, who is the Only Real Agent.

God the Only Real Agent.

Do not, like fools, crave mercy from the spear,
But from the King in whose hand the spear is held.
Wherefore do you cry to spear and sword,
Seeing they are captives in the hand of that Noble One?
He is as Azar, maker of idols; I am only the idol;
Whatever instrument He makes me, that I am.
If He makes of me a cup, a cup am I;
If He makes of me a dagger, a dagger am I.
If He makes me a fountain, I pour forth water;
If He makes me fire, I give forth heat.
If He makes me rain, I produce rich crops;
If He makes me a dart, I pierce bodies.
If He makes me a snake, I dart forth poison;
If He makes me a friend, I serve my friends.
I am as the pen in the fingers of the writer,
I am not in a position to obey or not at will.

On the return of 'Izrail to heaven with the handful of earth, God said he would make him the angel of death. 'Izrail represented that this would make him very hateful to men; but God said 'Izrail would operate by disease and sickness, and men would not look for any cause beyond these diseases, according to the text, "He is nearer to you than ye are; yet ye see Him not." 4 Moreover, death is in reality a boon to the spiritual, and it is only fools who cry, "Would that this world might endure for ever, and that there were no such thing as death!"


posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 01:07 PM
Then will the evildoer be sent to the fiery prison,
For thorn can in no wise escape the flame.
When his guardian angels behind and before,
Who before were unseen, shall appear like patrols,
They will hurry him off, pricking him with their spears,
And saying, "O dog, begone to thy kennel!"
Then the prisoner will cry, "O Lord, I am a hundred,
Yea, a hundred times as wicked as Thou sayest.
But in mercy Thou veilest my sins,
Otherwise my vileness were known to Thy all-seeing eye.
But, independently of my own works and warfare,
Independently of my faith or unfaith, good or evil,
Independently of my poor devotion to Thee,
And of my thoughts and the thoughts of hundreds like me,
I fix my hopes on Thy mercy alone.
Whether Thou adjudge me upright or rebellious,
I sue for free pardon from Thy unbought justice.
O Lord, who art gracious without thought of consequence,
I set my face towards that free grace of Thine;
I have no regard to my own acts.
I set my face towards this hope,
Seeing that Thou gayest me my being first of all;
Thou gayest me the garment of being unasked,
Wherefore I firmly trust in Thy free grace.
When he thus enumerates his sins and faults,
God at last will grant him pardon as a free gift,
Saying, "O angels, bring him back to me,
Since the eyes of his heart were set on hope,
Without care for consequences I set him free,
And draw the pen through the record of his sins!"


Mahmud again presses Ayaz to reveal his secrets, remarking that even if they suggest sad thoughts, they will benefit the hearers. The wise man is as a guest-house, and he admits all the thoughts that occur to him, whether of joy or of sorrow, with the same welcome, knowing that, like Abraham, he may entertain angels unawares.


What is soul? 'Tis acquainted with good and evil,
Rejoicing at pleasant things, grieving at His.
Since, then, the principle of soul is knowledge,
He who knows most is most full of soul.
Knowledge is the effect flowing from soul;
He who has most of it is most godlike.
Seeing then, beloved, that knowledge is the mark of soul,
He who knows most has the strongest soul.
The world of souls is itself entirely knowledge,
And he who is void of knowledge is void of soul.
When knowledge is lacking in a man s nature,
His soul is like a stone on the plain.
Primal Soul is the theatre of God's court,
Soul of souls the exhibition of God Himself.
All the angels were pure reason and soul,
Yet when the new soul of Adam came, they were as its body.
When in joy they crowded round that new soul, 4
They bowed before it as body does before soul.


The Jew said that he had dreamed that Moses had carried him to the top of Mount Sinai, and shown him marvelous visions of the glory of heaven and the angels. The Christian said he had dreamed that 'Isa had carried him up to the fourth heaven and shown him all the glories of the heavens. Finally the Mosalman said that the Prophet Muhammad had appeared to him in person, and after commending him for his piety in saying his prayers and keeping fast so strictly on the previous night, had commanded him to eat up those divinely provided sweetmeats as a reward, and he had accordingly done so. The Jew and the Christian were at first annoyed with him for thus stealing a march upon them; but on his pointing out that he had no option but to obey the Prophet's commands, they admitted that he had done right, and that his dream was the best, as he had been awake, while they were asleep. The moral is, that the divine treasure is revealed as an immediate intuition to those who seek it with prayer and humble obedience, and not to those who seek to infer and deduce its nature and quality from the lofty abstractions of philosophy.


' I am a man, yet it hath been revealed to me.' 4
Like you, I was naturally dark,
'Twas the Sun's revelation that gave me such light.
I still am dark compared to the Sun,
Though I am light compared to the dark souls of men.
Therefore is my light weak, that you may bear it,
For you are not strong enough to bear the dazzling Sun.
I have, as it were, mixed honey with vinegar,
To succour the sickness of your hearts.
When you are cured of your sickness, O invalid,
Then leave out the vinegar and eat pure honey.
When the heart is garnished and swept clear of lust,
Therein 'The God of Mercy sitteth on His throne.' 5
Then God rules the heart immediately,
When it has gained this immediate connection with Him.
This subject is endless; but where is Zaid,
That I may tell him again not to seek notoriety?
'Tis not wise to publish these mysteries,
Since the last day is approaching to reveal all things."


And finally:

If there were no truth, how could falsehood exist?
Falsehood derives its plausibility from truth.
'Tis the desire of right that makes men buy wrong;
Let poison be mixed with sugar, and they eat it at once.
If wheat were not valued as sweet and good for food,
The cheat who shows wheat and sells barley would make no profit!
Say not, then, that all these creeds are false,
The false ones ensnare hearts by the scent of truth.

edit on 22-11-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 02:34 PM
reply to post by EnochWasRight

WoW wonderful thread. and I add these:

"Get united…" "I came here not to divide but to unify."
"Come! Come again! Whoever, whatever you may be, come!
Heathen, idolatrous or fire worshipper come!
Even if you deny your oaths a hundred times come!
Our door is the door of hope come! Come like you are!"
"Our mother is love! Our father is love!
We are born from love! We are love!"
"All loves constitute a bridge leading to the divine love."
"To love human beings means to love GOD."
"Like the spear pierces the shield in a moment, I passed through centuries. This is why all believes and religions are for me One and hundred thousand of years a moment…"
"Come, come over, more over, how long this brigandage? As you are me and I am you. How long this discrimination of you and I?
We are light of GOD! Why this separation among us? Why light escapes from light?
We are all from the same yeast, our brains and heads too. But under this bowed sky we see double...
From this five senses, six directions carry all what you possess to the country of Unity. Till when you will continue only to speak of Unity.
Come on, deny your Ego. Get united with everybody. So long as you remain in yourself, you are a particle. But if you get united with everybody, you are a mine, an ocean.
Believe that all spirits are One! And all bodies are One! Just like almonds in quantity hundred thousands; but there is the same oil in all of them."
There are many languages in the world, in meaning all are the same. If you break the cups, water will be unified and will flow together."
Jalal ad-Din Muhammad Rumi

edit on 22-11-2012 by maes2 because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 02:42 PM
reply to post by EnochWasRight

I'd offer that it's not the message of Jesus Christ, but rather the message of any enlightened being, which is why they seem so similar.

posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 02:56 PM
reply to post by maes2

Rumi is amazing. He claimed to be unity with all religions. The wisdom he expresses is beyond that of common understanding.

posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 03:01 PM

Originally posted by Buddha1098
reply to post by EnochWasRight

I'd offer that it's not the message of Jesus Christ, but rather the message of any enlightened being, which is why they seem so similar.

As enlightened as Rumi is, fault can be found. This is not so with Christ. Rumi had a broad awareness, yet still missed the consistency that marks perfection. He had many flaws.

posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 04:06 PM
reply to post by EnochWasRight

well yes the goal is to reach the truth in enlightenment and religions are different ways to reach it.
especially in monotheistic or Abrahamic religions the goal and the truth is the only God. so we can find signs of loving people in religions. religions are not to spread differences between humanity but to unite them. as an example all religions are waiting the upcoming Messiahs even Budhists. there is a Messiah in Judaism however they do not believe in Jesus. the Christians believe that the Messiah is Jesus and Muslims believe that the Messiahs are Jesus and Mahdi accompanying each other.

Leviticus 19:18
"Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD."

Koran 2:62
Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah(God) and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 05:04 PM
Loved this.

Thanks for sharing.

posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 05:35 PM
I thought I would share one of my favorite videos. Some of Rumi's words set to music with beautiful images. Hope you enjoy

posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 07:00 AM
very interesting thread, Rumi was a great poet and sufi, writing about the love of God and the spiritual connection with Him, he did understand part of the message of Christ.

posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 07:52 AM
"Two reeds drink from one stream. One is hollow, the other is sugar-cane."


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