The pursuit of happiness, how can we make unhappy Muslims happy?

My guess of what to do is the same thing that I suspect would make Christian extremists happy: turn the entire world into a theocracy and indoctrinate everyone from birth. Except it would be Islam, rather than Christianity.
This in my opinion is a case of "what they think they want", because I'm not sure a God-driven dictatorship would be very pleasant for anybody to live under.

Maybe they're unhappy because we've been interfering with their lives?
People seem to forget that we started messing with them long before 9/11 happened.

The only way a Muslim can be truly happy is through Islam and the only people we can blame is ourselves. It's as simple as that.

Originally posted by kaylaluv
Some examples of our violent Christian past, where "Christians" persecuted those of other religions.

Your examples of Christian persecution happened over 1,000 years ago. Christianity has moved on.

Islam is persecuting people today.

Originally posted by luciddream

Its the individual not the whole culture or country. Canada gets more refined, educated working class Muslims, UK (where most of these propaganda/hate arises from, has border jumping Muslims

45 Muslim doctors planned US terror raids

A group of 45 Muslim doctors threatened to use car bombs and rocket grenades in terrorist attacks in the United States during discussions on an extremist internet chat site.

Link

Originally posted by ollncasino

Your examples of Christian persecution happened over 1,000 years ago. Christianity has moved on.

Islam is persecuting people today.

Like Christianity, Islam has gone through cycles of violence. We are unfortunately living through a cycle right now. Islam also has a history of intellectualism, tolerance and peace. Get rid of the extremists, and Islam can go back to the great religion it once was.

The future of Islam depends on the conclusion of the cycle of radicalization that began in 1979 with the Khomeini regime in Iran; continued with the increase of Wahhabi aggressivity, based in Saudi Arabia and in competition with the Iranian revolutionary appeal; then by Taliban domination of Afghanistan and expansion of Pakistani jihadism. The clerical regime in Iran is destined to end sooner rather than later, and social reform in Saudi Arabia (presuming disestablishment of Wahhabism as a sole official interpretation), has been initiated in a limited manner by Saudi King Abdullah. The success of these developments within the two leading Muslim societies will open the way to the reestablishment of the intellectual pluralism, based on diversity of opinion, that characterized the greater part of Islamic history. In that context, the future of Islam may be productive of collective stability, spiritual renewal, and positive, respectful relations with the rest of the world's faiths.

www.islamicpluralism.org...

Originally posted by RamsOnTop
reply to post by MidnightTide

 

Again, please provide page numbers and which edition you are using. That which you provided is probably sourced from a blog.

I can provide a link to reference it for you, but whatever I provide, your just going to brush it off anyway. But thanks for playing.



reply to post by kaylaluv


Huh, when was the last cycle of violence for Christianity?

i think you think that 'unhappy' Muslims turn radical & extremist


WRONG

It is Accepted in Islam that a few of the Muslims are supposed to fervent & extreme... the Saudi govt supports the Wahabbists and other Salafists... & builds Mosques for the other peaceful groups of (the majority) Muslims


Islam needs to keep the extremists around so the meek will stay-in-line... they are a necessary fringe element in the whole Islamic, Sharia gestalt



we westerners are so disoriented with the scientific method that the existentialism as practiced by the Imams and Muslim/Islamic world is rather ODD to our senses


...do you, can you... see the holistic nature of preserving a death focused sect within the larger group...
even the destructive policies and intentions made by the Øbama regime should be viewed in this light...
only then will the contemporary scene make some sense

better yet, not 'how can we' but 'why should we'..


it is to each person to pursuit happiness, not for others to hand it to them.
if they want to be happy they will have to decide to be
and act upon it.

personally i could care less if they are happy, mad or indifferent.
they are not involved in my day to day world. i take care of
myself and my family, it is their job to improve things for them self.

if they cant do that then it says something about them as a person.
my job on this rock is not to make someone half a world away happy
but to try to do good where i can close to home.


P.S. they have been at war since the bible, i doubt 'happy' is to high
up on their list, otherwise things would have changed in the past few
thousands of years.

Originally posted by MidnightTide

Huh, when was the last cycle of violence for Christianity?

You make a good point. We've never really stopped the cycle of Christian extremist violence. It's still going on now, isn't it?

Ku Klux Klan

After a period of relative quiet, Ku Klux Klan activity has spiked noticeably upwards in 2006, as Klan groups have attempted to exploit fears in America over gay marriage, perceived “assaults” on Christianity, crime and especially immigration.

Christian Identity

Christian Identity is a religious ideology popular in extreme right-wing circles. Adherents believe that whites of European descent can be traced back to the "Lost Tribes of Israel." Many consider Jews to be the Satanic offspring of Eve and the Serpent, while non-whites are "mud peoples" created before Adam and Eve. Its virulent racist and anti-Semitic beliefs are usually accompanied by extreme anti-government sentiments. Despite its small size, Christian Identity influences virtually all white supremacist and extreme anti-government movements. It has also informed criminal behavior ranging from hate crimes to acts of terrorism.

www.adl.org...

I understand what the OP is saying but I think there are some generalizations here.... plus it's very complex.

There are happy Muslims in Muslim countries. There are unhappy Muslims in non Muslim countries.

However, I think there is anger for some of the living standards of their own country... it's true, but it can be blamed on the West. Oil bearing countries should not be in states of poverty. That's one complexity.

Another complexity is that people do tend to be happier with freedom but sometimes freedom is run amuck and turns into something very untidy and chaotic. I would venture to say that some Muslim societies have a profound decency about them that non Muslim societies do not have... because many non Muslim societies take freedoms for granted and simply show the worst of themselves rather than trying to maintain that strict accepted order.

People often tend to get tired of what they know... even if it is very workable.

We do need to find common ground.... we could actually compliment each other.

The problem is that the architechs of our societies have agendas that force common ground by infiltration and ironically instead of creating common ground, it does the opposite.

You can try to understand Muslims, you can show tolerance in the hopes they also desire to understand you... you can approach eash Muslim many different ways but Islam itself is not a problem that any other man should look at as though it is a problem to be solved. That's actually kind of being a control freak.

These things can happen on their own... and usually most often when they are not poked and prodded at.

I see the issue the OP thinks is there and I see WHY they think it's there. It's no other person
s job to solve it though.... not on a global or strategic level. You control what YOU control... and that would be simply showing respect to Muslims you actually meet.

The desire to control a huge number of people is based on deep rooted fears. I would consider that.... and I would also consider that maybe these things you've mentioned are merely your perception and that there is a lot more to the story... especially in the hearts and minds of most Muslims and if a person can't really relate to their own subject, they probably shouldn't try to do large scale planning for those subjects.

Originally posted by lnfideI

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
reply to post by lnfideI

 

Okay,

I never said anything like all unhappy Muslims are extremists. I said to treat Muslims with respect because they are people just like all logical people and you responded by posting pictures of extremists.

You realize that these are the extreme minority? And that Muslim people are in fact no different, or less logical, than anyone else?

You are the one who seems to be using the word "unhappy" as a euphemism for terrorist. And then you apply it to populations of entire countries.


Also, your position seems to be that Muslims need the guidance of the West in order to be happy. That is selling them short as humans.


What exactly are you trying to accomplish wit this thread?

turn your TV on and you will see that is not the case.

The remains of your pitiful argument crash right there. Do you think that TV channels would show videos of happy people living happy lives? No. They look at the interesting stories. Poverty, anger, sadness, misery and violence. If you seriously think that you can assume all Muslims are unhappy because of what you've seen on TV then I can assume that you may have diagnosed Sheeple syndrome which has affected much of your countries citizens.

en.wikipedia.org...

Take a look at the 2012 rankings. BOOM! There goes your argument. Although the South American nations are pretty much dominating it, there are plenty of 'unhappy' Muslim nations.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by kaylaluv
Some examples of our violent Christian past, where "Christians" persecuted those of other religions.

Your examples of Christian persecution happened over 1,000 years ago. Christianity has moved on.

Islam is persecuting people today.

edit on 23-11-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)

Aww cute! Organized a bunch of your friends and printed some pretty posters eh?

Originally posted by kaylaluv

We as a people squashed the KKK, and the Muslim population needs to to the same with the extremist groups of Muslims.

Yes they do, don't they.

They don't seem to be having much luck doing so.

Perhaps its because the extremists are supported by Saudi Arabian oil money?

The Saudi Connection How billions in oil money spawned a global terror network

Starting in the late 1980s--after the dual shocks of the Iranian revolution and the Soviet war in Afghanistan--Saudi Arabia's quasi-official charities became the primary source of funds for the fast-growing jihad movement.

In some 20 countries, the money was used to run paramilitary training camps, purchase weapons, and recruit new members.

The charities were part of an extraordinary $70 billion Saudi campaign to spread their fundamentalist Wahhabi sect worldwide. The money helped lay the foundation for hundreds of radical mosques, schools, and Islamic centers that have acted as support networks for the jihad movement, officials say.

USNews.com

It is interesting that Saudi Arabia is the spiritual home of Islam and yet finances extremist Muslims around the globe. Wahhabism is the official form of Islam in Saudi Arabia.

Almost all Muslim terrorist are Wahhabi/Salafi, who believe that the whole world should be forced to be Islamic and to live there life in the manner of Muhammad in the 7th century.

Wahhabism
Salafism

reply to post by lnfideI


Western democracies have been "outspent, outmanoeuvred and out-strategised" by violent Islamist extremists, Tony Blair has claimed.

Mr Blair said it was "absurd" that some people were surprised at how powerful Islamist extremist groups were, given the amount of funding they received and indoctrination they spread.

"Measure, over the years, the paucity of our counter-attack in the name of peaceful coexistence," he said. "We have been outspent, outmanoeuvred and out-strategised."

"The practitioners of extremism are small in number. The adherents of the narrative stretch far broader into parts of mainstream thinking," Mr Blair told the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.

The Telegraph

The last sentence is interesting. If I understand it correctly, he is saying that while active extremists are small in number, the support for their beliefs is far broader in Islam and extends into parts of the mainstream.

Worrying stuff.

Originally posted by St Udio
i think you think that 'unhappy' Muslims turn radical & extremist


WRONG

It is Accepted in Islam that a few of the Muslims are supposed to fervent & extreme... the Saudi govt supports the Wahabbists and other Salafists... & builds Mosques for the other peaceful groups of (the majority) Muslims


Islam needs to keep the extremists around so the meek will stay-in-line... they are a necessary fringe element in the whole Islamic, Sharia gestalt



we westerners are so disoriented with the scientific method that the existentialism as practiced by the Imams and Muslim/Islamic world is rather ODD to our senses


...do you, can you... see the holistic nature of preserving a death focused sect within the larger group...
even the destructive policies and intentions made by the Øbama regime should be viewed in this light...
only then will the contemporary scene make some sense

edit on 23-11-2012 by St Udio because: (no reason given)

this link was just published today: www.newswithviews.com...

PLOTTING FOR AMERICA TO BE RULED UNDER SHARIA LAW IS SEDITION





By: Devvy
November 23, 2012
NewsWithViews.com

In a recent column, I referred to this excellent presentation: Can The United States Constitution Destroy Itself? Anyone who has taken the time to read and listen to the words of Muslim clerics and the Muslim Brotherhood fully and clearly understand the number one goal is to take over these united States of America and replace the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights with the sickness called Islam. The web site highlighted above gives you the documents to back up what millions of Americans know and are fighting against.



"But the truth is that Islam is not the name of a ‘Religion’, nor is ‘Muslim’ the title of a ‘Nation’. In reality Islam is a revolutionary ideology and programme which seeks to alter the social order of the whole world and rebuild it in conformity with its own tenets and ideals. ‘Muslim’ is the title of that International Revolutionary Party organized by Islam to carry into effect its revolutionary programme. And ‘Jihad’ refers to that revolutionary struggle and utmost exertion which the Islamic Party brings into play to achieve this objective."

[...]

my earlier post which states that the radical Islamists-Jihadists are deliberately Not constrained by the Clerics and Imams...now becomes a little bit clearer doesn't it.

The fundamentalists are the ~shock troops~ for the Islamic Elites and the Muslim Party...

read the article--- Islam is a political Party and Not a Religion, for all intents and purposes


thanks

This is silly. The OP has clealy never spent anytime in a muslim country where even ones that have problems most people are happy and just about thier everyday lives. You take a small group and then try and represent the entire country as that group. Most muslims just like most christians just want to live their lives and get upset at things like poverty and politcal corruption. The arab spring was started for the same reason the people have come out to protest in Greece/Spain and across Europe and the same reason occupy was created in the US. They like most people just want fair shot at life. They like most people do not care about global events, religious wars, politics, spreading religion etc. They want to raise famalies and live life. They also happen to be some of nicest people I have ever met. I am not saying you go to some strife torn reason of the world but you could spend time in Morrocco, UAE, Algeira, Turkey or even Egypt and find you will treated very well and that Muslims around the world are just like everyone esle. Its odd that people in the military tend to be the ones defeding muslims because not only have they spent the most time with them they have also fought side by side with them.

reply to post by St Udio


Islam is a political party which requires it's party members to fast every month, donate to charity, pray 5 times a day and go on pilgrimage? That sounds a bit strange, especially since there were no political parties hundreds of years ago in the deserts of Arabia.