The Fallen Angels

What I know of Angels (and I don't know much) are that they are created beings by the god of the bible. They were created to be ministering spirits. But I suppose if they were created sometime before humans, who did they minister to (Hebrews 1:14)? They are also messengers (Matthew 1:20). If they were created before humans, who did they give messages to?

From my understanding according to a conglomeration of the Book of Enoch and the Bible, 1/3 of the angels rebelled against their god because they did not want to be servants to the humans. (Wasn't that why god created them to begin with? Who else would they minister to and send messages to?)

Like I was saying, 1/3 of these beings left their heavenly abode in full knowledge that they would be punished. In full knowledge that they could never overcome this god's power, and they had been in his glorious presence but could somehow decide they didn't want that anymore. What were they thinking? (was god's presence not that great or something for them to be able to rebel like that?)

Looking at the Bible, specifically Genesis 6, and the Book of Enoch, we learn a little bit about the Fallen Angels. They come to earth and somehow shape shift into a human type of form, which is also compatible with humans in that they can reproduce with them, creating offspring who are heroes of old, men of renown. (sounds like when the Greek gods had offspring with human women, correlation?)

While these fallen angels were on earth, they taught man many things. Here are some examples of things that these fallen angels taught man: 1.) Signs of the Earth 2.) Enchantments 3.) How to make swords, shields, knives, jewelry, and cosmetics 4.) Astrology 5.) Meteorology 6.) How to write with ink and paper 7.) Wisdom 8.) the courses of the moon 9.) Signs of the sun 10.) Growing crops

I have questions about these things that the fallen angels taught man. When, where, why, and how did they learn all of this stuff, and knew it good enough to instruct it to man?

How did they know astrology? Why would they know how to read stars? Did they navigate by them, especially stars as seen from Earth?

Why would they know how to work metal to fashion weapons? Why would they need to know how to make that? Did they make weapons when they were in heaven? If so, for what? Aren't they spirit beings? Did they make weapons out of spirit metal in their spirit blacksmith shops?

Why would they know enchantments? Did they use them? Why would they need to know enchantments?

Why would they need to know how to grow crops? Where did they plant them before they came to Earth? In Heaven, in heavenly spirit soils?
.
How would they have know the signs of the Earth? They weren't from here.

Cosmetics? Why? Did they wear make-up?

Why did they need to know how weather works? Did they have different weather patterns in heaven?

Finally, I guess my final statement is that if these beings were created during the six days of creation, you know, when god created EVERYTHING, how and why did these fallen angels learn to do all these things so quick, not even being from Earth?

I hope I made sense, lol.

p.s. And if you're the kind of person who wants to say, "It's all myth, that's why it doesn't make sense...", you're not the person I'm speaking to.

reply to post by Hydroman


Remember that link I gave you to The Chronicle Project.

In the restoration of Genesis 1 there is a hinting of the fact Earth was chosen to be added to the group of already known/habited planets. This pretty much answers your questions about how the Angels (who are actually called 'The Supreme Ones' and are the actual beings who were tasked the mission of terraforming Earth). There is no mention of 'God' creating the entire universe. It only ever mentions the choice of Planet and the order of terraforming (including the suggestion that they added the Moon to orbit around the Earth).

Remember, The Chronicle project team are restoring the Ancient Hebrew bible to it's most original form without doctrinal bias.

As for your other questions, you are reading a very flawed book. The King James Version is terrible. If you need to, read the Septuagint version, this is the most original version available. Also known as The Leningrad Codex. It is still flawed in its translation.

If you want to understand it, read what The Chronicle Project team have restored so far. You won't learn anything by asking people to clarify the meanings of flawed translations, and biased translations.

The Greek God correlation is spot on. It is the same story, or a similar story from that region of the Planet. Nordic legends are similar too.

Heaven is NOT this mystical place where 'Angels' live. If anything the heavens/Heaven are simply outer space, of which they come from another planet (The 'Lord of Hosts' alludes to this fact by stating precisely so in Isaiah 13 something along the lines of 'I command an Army of Giants from a land afar off (A land afar would mean a land far away, but a land afar off could definitely mean off planet), from the utmost foundation of heaven (which is alluding to space/outerspace)'). They may exist in a separate realm in the same vicinity of our own Earth, but there is nothing mystical about it.

You're asking questions that no-one has an answer to and we can only speculate at what it may be. Some people are going to give you the whole spiritual spiel. I'm trying to help you understand that there is less mystical and more physical to all of this than what is alluded to in the flawed book that you choose to continue to read.

reply to post by Hydroman


Keyword search the book of Enoch for 'mysteries'. Angels assisted in constructing reality. It was meant for the Son of God and as an inheritance for man. I assume when this fact was announced, they rebelled. The purpose of God proceeded. In the end, it was likely the plan all along.

Another possibility is that we are the angels. The beast they rebelled against was the very vehicle they/we would occupy. Again, God's mystery partially taught to Angels. The remainder was taught to us in the Torah and other places like Ephesians 1-3. If this is the case, many of us are elect angels assisting the fallen return. Held in chains of darkness and all.

I've often thought about this situation, why these beings would do such a thing, and I've come to two possible reasons.
1: That they thought God was not all-powerful and that they could somehow "overthrow" him/it and be outside his power to do anything about, or
2: That they believed their decision was the right one.
Either of these two scenarios creates huge doubt in my mind that "God" is in fact all-powerful, if existent at all... However, if they were really deceived by the "devil", as is the common story, I'd sure like to know just what they were promised in return for their actions and why they believed whatever they were told rather than remaining with God. I can't see their motivations simply being temporary self-goals.
I believe there are warring factions among the higher beings and this incident alone is a big reason I'm not convinced the typical Christian God is the real, ultimate God of existence. It makes more sense to me that the Christian God was just a high authority figure among these beings that at some point became corrupt.

reply to post by Hydroman


Thank you Op for bringing this up! Someone else and i were asking ourselves those same questions! I guess we're just stating the obvious that nobody really dares to.

As to how did these angels have all this knowledge well it's probably cause they were "created" with them from the start.

The notion that mankind had fallen because of the teachings of these angels doesn't make much sense unless it was planned but then it makes even less sense that God would always seem to experiment with whatever creation that is lower than "him"/It!

Good stuff so far guys, thanks!

Originally posted by Exv8densez
The notion that mankind had fallen because of the teachings of these angels doesn't make much sense

Agreed; take something like astrology, for example. If God created everything we can perceive and experience, is that not part of his creation? Is science not part of God? When most people look at water, they see water; but science has allowed us to understand that water is made of hydrogen and oxygen atoms. This is of creation, and therefore of God, correct? So if we are taught something like astrology, of which we can perceive ourselves, why would God punish us for understanding his creation?
Were we really being punished because this knowledge was evil, or were we being punished because "God" wanted to be God?

For anyone else interested, The Chronicle Project are a team restoring the Ancient Hebrew Bible to its original meanings without doctrinal bias, in other words they are restoring the meaning without then trying to conform that meaning into something that aligns with the 'correct' thought of that religion.

They are just telling it like it is. Read my above post if you want some insight. It's well worth your time to visit and read what they have restored so far.

reply to post by LightAssassin
When you talk about these beings "copulating" with humans, how do you know that it wasn't actually genetic experiments, kind of like what we do with animals today, and the authors of those writings weren't able to understand what had happened (like with many other things in the ancient writings?)

reply to post by trollz


We weren't being punished. The Planet had to be wiped of the genetic abominations created by the offspring (Nephilim) of the Angels (The supreme ones, the terraformers and geneticists of their race). So the Ruler of All (God) told 'The Supreme Ones' to get Noah and his group (probably the least corrupt and genetically perfect humans in that region of Earth) to collect as many genetically clean animals and place them onboard the Ark, and then kill everything else, including their own offspring, the Nephilim.

Then they collapsed the Water canopy, the water canopy being a possible reason as to why Humans could live so long, surrounding the Planet which flooded the Planet temporarily and killed most of the abominations and nephilim.

None of these beings are all seeing, all knowing. That idea is planted by religion to keep you in fear. Just like parents hold over children with Santa (you better watch out, you better not cry....).

Originally posted by Hydroman
reply to post by LightAssassin

 

When you talk about these beings "copulating" with humans, how do you know that it wasn't actually genetic experiments, kind of like what we do with animals today, and the authors of those writings weren't able to understand what had happened (like with many other things in the ancient writings?)

There's a minister named Chuck Missler who has a 12-part thing on Youtube where he discusses his beliefs that the greys are actually the demons/fallen angels of the bible, and that the "mating" was in fact in reference to genetic manipulation.

Here's part 1 of 12, it's interesting to listen to.

reply to post by LightAssassin


I understand what you're saying, but what exactly made the beings of those times "genetic abominations"? What exactly was "evil" about their dna or genes or whatever we're talking about? Is it possible for a physical being to be evil simply because of how its body is designed? Are our physical bodies somehow related to our spiritual existence?

reply to post by Hydroman


I completely agree, it is a possibility.

It mentions in the restoration that they took brides of Human (Adam) women to rise above Humans and gain recognition by producing their own offspring like the Humans have. But their offspring, the Giants, would then copulate with every animal they could, so the story tells.

reply to post by trollz


No, these 'Supreme Ones' mated with Humans which caused a DNA conflict which made Giants (clearly their genetic code isn't restricted). These giants also carried this non-restrictive DNA/Genetics that caused the spoiling of DNA in many types of creatures.

For 120 years Humans lived in fear of The Supreme Ones, the Giants and all the abominations the Giants had created, along with the fact the Giants ate everything and then started eating Humans and even each other. The problem was that there weren't enough resources to feed these Nephilim, and they shouldn't have been created in the first place.

reply to post by LightAssassin


This might sound stupid, but do you think these rebel beings had anything to do with the existence of dinosaurs?

reply to post by trollz


Hmmmm.....Good question and one I cannot answer with any certainty.

My answer would be not sure. I mean, they certainly could have introduced them to this planet for the purposes of creating a future fuel use....but for that to be feasible then these beings would need to be capable of operating outside of 'time'. It's possible they may have had something to do with their demise for those purposes.

Without that time period we would not have 'fossil' fuels. Without fossil fuels we would not be where we are today technologically, although I suspect the use of fossil fuels was not intended to go on for so long but the greed of humans has ensured that we cannot access anything cleaner/better.

I know that there is no mention of 'dragons' in the bible (dragons being what dinosaurs used to be called) but there is certainly a crossing over of the existence of Humans or Bipedal beings with intelligence (could be the Giants) and Dinosaurs/Dragons.

I take that back. Actually there are plenty of references to dragons, just that modern translators didn't believe or agree with the text so they changed it to conform to what they could better understand, rather than just translate exactly what was written.

Dragons in the Bible?

As I have said, the Bible is full of accidental and purposeful mistranslations. I can't wait for The Chronicle Project team to finish their restorations.

Originally posted by trollz

Originally posted by Exv8densez
The notion that mankind had fallen because of the teachings of these angels doesn't make much sense

Agreed; take something like astrology, for example. If God created everything we can perceive and experience, is that not part of his creation? Is science not part of God? When most people look at water, they see water; but science has allowed us to understand that water is made of hydrogen and oxygen atoms. This is of creation, and therefore of God, correct? So if we are taught something like astrology, of which we can perceive ourselves, why would God punish us for understanding his creation?
Were we really being punished because this knowledge was evil, or were we being punished because "God" wanted to be God?

Yes exactly but i would guess that it's because there are lines that shouldn't be crossed. As "God" wouldn't want the lower crations to try to recreate what he/it has done "perfectly" seeing as the "experts" always want to "recreate" things. There's a difference with understanding and tampering with knowledge. However still, indeed the punishement doesn't fit the crime.

Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by Hydroman

 

The Chronicle Project

edit on 21-11-2012 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)

I have skimmed parts of what these people have done...and it corresponds to several cosmological tracts I have read...(whether you like it or not) it corresponds very well with what is written in the Urantia Book.

'Fallen'...suggests, a drop from somewhere to a place of lesser...mmm, quality...not exclusive of a 'fall' by choice, similar to the 2 characters at the beginning of the bible...nuff said...

A99

reply to post by Hydroman

Why would they know how to read stars? Did they navigate by them, especially stars as seen from Earth?

Just a thought....

What if the fallen angels were like the engineers in the movie 'Prometheus'?
The engineers were mysterious, proud, intimidating and controlled highly advanced technology? Even in the movie, we see a rogue engineer who toyed with humans as if they were lower forms of life.

The fallen angels could have handed technology to humans just to see what we'd do with it... knowing fully well they could strike us down anytime they wished to. Like us humans toying with cats using laser pointers, thinking its "cute" to watch them chase it.

I know I'm using a sci-fi movie to base this on... and its quite a stretch of the imagination, but what if, anyway.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Yes, that's where Ridley Scott got the idea.

The beings in Prometheus could be classed as 'The Supreme Ones'/Angels.

In the Sumerian/Babylonian histories a High God was slain to provide spirit to Humans. In Prometheus, a 'High God' (and they were also Giants!!!) takes a 'potion' that dissolves his DNA so it can remolecularize (I hope that's the right word) in the water into different strands of DNA, which starts the life cycle on Earth, essentially seeding life on Earth.

Also, the Alien creations in those canisters, like the Nephilim, are genetically non-restricted. They can reproduce with anything.