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If the Bible is the Word of God, it should be consistent in all things; correct on all things; without error and without fault... as it was given. One thing we do run into issues with is the fact that... most of us don't speak ancient Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. That automatically disqualifies us from reading "first hand" from the Bible, and introduces a margin of error, which translators are always working to eliminate as much as possible.
This is the gist of my point. You "believe". One you've made your mind up it is hard to change it. Most have shown that once they make their mind up they will cling hard to ideas that reinforce their beliefs. And deny most of what contradicts their beliefs. The ego is funny that way Thanks to you.
And just so you understand my position. This isn't a"witch hunt". I'm just curious to know if you've read it all the way through, what religion you are, and what you believe?
Originally posted by Mrgone
reply to post by AQuestion
Both good points
I am not intending to be inconsistent or misleading. Based on your statement I believe I missed my original post and you feel a bit put off by my return response.
Of course, the only responses that I received are from those who can admit that they have read the bible cover to cover. I really should have thought the audience through a little better. My original question was based on a conversation a friend and I were having. She's Irish catholic. We spar over belief and came to the same question of how many of our respected friends who claim to be Christians based their arguments on"belief" and how many use scripture to back it. And how much of the bible knowledge does one allow in a conversation before you realize that you are speaking to a "devout" who's mind has already been made up.
I admit that most of the responders say that they have read the bible more than I. That was part of the question. But the inconsistencies regarding the bible's validity has also been addressed by some who claim to know it's origin to be authentic was more of my intended direction with the original post. Also, those who say that any proof of the bible being written by the hands of man has no baring on their faith don't address the fact that faith is truely what they cling to. Not Christianity
I knew this was going to be a beating when I started. And in the spirit of accepting all responses..thank you for your honest input.
Not fighting, I just want to point this out. If the bible was, as you put it, "God-breathed" then the intention of the perfect god was to leave a perfect message. A message that would stand the test of time and translation. In any human communication we can say that meanings can sometimes get funky and vague, but this is GOD we're talking about. His "God-breathed" messages in the bible would be perfectly clear and irrefutable to EVERYONE ON THE PLANET.
Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by jiggerj
What if the message is perfect; but, we being human are imperfect and therefore cannot understand it perfectly?
Originally posted by jiggerj
Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by jiggerj
What if the message is perfect; but, we being human are imperfect and therefore cannot understand it perfectly?
LOL Can you hear what you're saying here? The perfect God leaves messages intended for us to understand (else why send the messages), but we can't understand them. If a perfect god could send a message he would make sure everyone on the planet would understand it completely, without any room for doubt of its meaning no matter how intelligent we are or aren't, and no matter what language we speak.
P.S. Happy Turkey Day to you too!edit on 11/22/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by AQuestion
Originally posted by jiggerj
Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by jiggerj
What if the message is perfect; but, we being human are imperfect and therefore cannot understand it perfectly?
LOL Can you hear what you're saying here? The perfect God leaves messages intended for us to understand (else why send the messages), but we can't understand them. If a perfect god could send a message he would make sure everyone on the planet would understand it completely, without any room for doubt of its meaning no matter how intelligent we are or aren't, and no matter what language we speak.
P.S. Happy Turkey Day to you too!edit on 11/22/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)
Dear jiggerj,
Else why send the messages, lol. Do you think the same today that you did when you were three? Have you not grown? You ask for perfection, that you means that you ask to stop growing. You ask to know it all and be God. Okay.
There is no way anyone can confused this message as meaning 'Let other children play with wild animals', or 'Wild animals eat sinners'. The message would be as relevant and clear today as it was back then. If we can make timeless messages such as this for our children a million years from now, then a god should have no problem doing it too.
reply to post by AQuestion
In the end, it is not about rules, it is about what is in your heart, that is what you are judged on.
Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by jiggerj
Dear jiggerj,
Where is all of this hate coming from? I said that we are judged by our hearts, why do you find that offensive? Yes, anyone can be saved. That is what Jesus said. What do you want the unforgivable sin to be? Who do you hate and can we find a sin to be forgiven that blesses us all?
Where do you see hate in my posts? I asked a philosophical question. It is you and all of the religious that feel threatened whenever your beliefs or flaws in the bible are questioned. Think about my question. What if Hitler believed with all his heart that he was doing the right thing? More times than we care to know, bad people actually think they're doing the right thing.
Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by jiggerj
Dear jiggerj,
Where do you see hate in my posts? I asked a philosophical question. It is you and all of the religious that feel threatened whenever your beliefs or flaws in the bible are questioned. Think about my question. What if Hitler believed with all his heart that he was doing the right thing? More times than we care to know, bad people actually think they're doing the right thing.
Clearly you are talking to some fear you have and not me. I am not afraid to defend my beliefs, that is why I am on ATS. You compare all believers in Hitler, pretty biased on your part. I don't compare all non believers to Stalin or Mao. Irrationality, as you express, is based on your bigotry, not mine. I answer your questions and hide from nothing, you make accusations and hide from all questions. Have a great day sunshine.
You claim that we are judged by what is in our hearts. What if people believe in their hearts that they are doing the work of god or allah by slamming planes into buildings? Stop trying to make this an argument and see that, apparently, if people believe in a god, they will NOT be judged by what is in their hearts, but by some other measure. In the words of a Shoalin priest: FOCUS GRASSHOPPER!
Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by jiggerj
Dear jiggerj,
You claim that we are judged by what is in our hearts. What if people believe in their hearts that they are doing the work of god or allah by slamming planes into buildings? Stop trying to make this an argument and see that, apparently, if people believe in a god, they will NOT be judged by what is in their hearts, but by some other measure. In the words of a Shoalin priest: FOCUS GRASSHOPPER!
They too will be judged by their hearts. They were willing to kill others to get to heaven, that is called selfishness and for that they will be judged. Please tell me what you believe people are judged by. You clearly do not understand where I am coming from. Many will call his name and he will say that he never knew them. Even demons know the name Jesus; but, that does not give salvation. It is forgiveness that gets forgiveness and true forgiveness is not given out of fear or selfishness.
Thank you for FINALLY responding to the question. Now, it is YOU that do not understand where YOU are coming from. lol If they, too, will be judged by their hearts, and if they fully believe that their atrocious acts are doing god's work, then by your belief they'll go to heaven, right? Think of all the bloodshed in the middle east. These people believe a THOUSAND PERCENT in their hearts that they are doing god's work.