It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Secession of Texas? Is it more than just Republican rhetoric?
page: 2share:
reply to post by Indigo5
They should ask for their money back and do it themselves. Texans pay federal tax and expect something in return. The Feds take the money spend it on God knows what,
Texas senators ask Obama to help prevent border violence www.statesman.com... Texas asks for federal help dealing with 'major' wildfire disaster www.khou.com...
They should ask for their money back and do it themselves. Texans pay federal tax and expect something in return. The Feds take the money spend it on God knows what,
25,000 Petitioners sure do a lot of talking
for the rest of us 30 million Texans.
The Texas National Guard is worthless
without their "National" Guard equipment.
for the rest of us 30 million Texans.
The Texas National Guard is worthless
without their "National" Guard equipment.
reply to post by whatsecret
Right and Obama isn't the only person responsible for the economy.
We have 500+ men and women who meet in congress who are directly responsible for the the budget. At least 34 of them from Texas.
Tell me WTH haven't they fixed the problem yet?
Because they have no intentions of fixing the problem until we chuck them all out of office and actually get people in there with the intention of fixing the problem.
We desperately need to impose term limits so that things can get better.
Right and Obama isn't the only person responsible for the economy.
We have 500+ men and women who meet in congress who are directly responsible for the the budget. At least 34 of them from Texas.
Tell me WTH haven't they fixed the problem yet?
Because they have no intentions of fixing the problem until we chuck them all out of office and actually get people in there with the intention of fixing the problem.
We desperately need to impose term limits so that things can get better.
Originally posted by Indigo5
Originally posted by Juggernog
Originally posted by jtap66
I hope Texas does secede.
I also hope that Mexico takes it back by force five minutes after Texas loses the support of the U.S. military.
Brush up on your Spanish!
The Texas National Guard and our Militias are more than a match for the Mexican "Military" and I use that word lightly.
Texas senators ask Obama to help prevent border violence
www.statesman.com...
Texas asks for federal help dealing with 'major' wildfire disaster
www.khou.com...
edit on 21-11-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)
Yea, Texas asked for help because the Feds tie our hands and require our LE to release illegals back to the streets.
And again, Texas was declared a disaster area, our Governor is required to look out for its citizens and ask for federal aid for them.. Again, the "Hope and Change" President Denied it and like I said, we did fine despite not getting the funds.
Not really, Texas is one of the few self sufficient states out there. State run oil/gas drilling and production alone would be more than enough to sustain and even improve its infrastructure. Not to mention we generate enough power to support our own power grid. We have our own ports and shipping industries, produce enough food to feed ourselves, ect..ect..
Originally posted by DelMarvel
if the impossible were to happen and Texas did secede the expense of building a national infrastructure would very quickly have everyone clamoring to re-join the union.
The only issue I know of that we would have is our water consumption. Due to the last several years being so dry we consume more water than we can sustain. I actually heard Gov. Rick Perry reference this some years back and said that they were in the process of trying to build several big desalinization units along the gulf in order to become less dependent of imported water.
The "Mexicans taking over" and "the wildfires" card has been so overused and abused in all these secession threads. It's like people think of
Texas will secede and do nothing to fortify & protect itself.
If Texas is the leader in taking back its independence, other states will follow and may create alliance.
Then we'd have states banding together which would basically be to get rid of the federal government in their states.
If Texas is the leader in taking back its independence, other states will follow and may create alliance.
Then we'd have states banding together which would basically be to get rid of the federal government in their states.
Originally posted by DelMarvel
Originally posted by yourmaker
.. nothing would change except the name.
There are 15 U.S. military bases in Texas that presumably would all be shut down. The economic hit from that alone would have Texans whining worse than they are now.
edit on 21-11-2012 by DelMarvel because: (no reason given)
lol.. That's the funniest thing I heard so far.. Shutting down 15 bases would have no effect on Texas economy. But the US military would loose a lot of troops
link
Texas has paid a price for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. More Texans than people from any other state have served in those wars. From September 2001 through July 2007, 171,335 active-duty service members and 23,906 National Guard troops and reservists from Texas have been deployed with Operations Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom, according to data provided to Salon by the Department of Defense. (The numbers account for every tour of duty served by every soldier.) As of July 31, Texans represented 35,015 active-duty service members and 2,649 Reserve troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, accounting for more than 14 percent of total forces stationed in those countries. (Approximately 264,000 Americans were stationed in Iraq and Afghanistan as of July 31, according to the Defense Department figures.) As of Sept. 17, 378 Texans have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan and more than 2,200 wounded. Only California has seen a greater total number of deaths, with 447 service members killed.
edit on 21-11-2012
by whatsecret because: (no reason given)
reply to post by DelMarvel
Actually in the event of a peaceful succession, all US Military members would be granted safe leave if they so desired yes, but the physical locations themselves would return to Texas control, along with all of the US Military members that choose to serve in the Texas Military. “That wont happen” you say? You would be surprised at the amount of senior military officials would jump at the chance to lead a new republic, even if only for personal gain.
Believe it or not there are already contingencies in place for just that.
The Texas Department of Public Safety (our state police) would become our federal police and branch out to form our version of the secret service.
Actually in the event of a peaceful succession, all US Military members would be granted safe leave if they so desired yes, but the physical locations themselves would return to Texas control, along with all of the US Military members that choose to serve in the Texas Military. “That wont happen” you say? You would be surprised at the amount of senior military officials would jump at the chance to lead a new republic, even if only for personal gain.
Believe it or not there are already contingencies in place for just that.
The Texas Department of Public Safety (our state police) would become our federal police and branch out to form our version of the secret service.
reply to post by grey580
Because they're in DC and allowed to sell services to the special interest lobbyists. That's the problem! And that's why Texas wants to get out of it. We vote them in and they go to DC and start working for the Feds not us.
Tell me WTH haven't they fixed the problem yet?
Because they're in DC and allowed to sell services to the special interest lobbyists. That's the problem! And that's why Texas wants to get out of it. We vote them in and they go to DC and start working for the Feds not us.
Originally posted by Juggernog
Originally posted by jtap66
I hope Texas does secede.
I also hope that Mexico takes it back by force five minutes after Texas loses the support of the U.S. military.
Brush up on your Spanish!
The Texas National Guard and our Militias are more than a match for the Mexican "Military" and I use that word lightly.
Not when the US takes back all its equipment. Even armed they would barely be able to replace the border patrol in numbers and now they would have many more borders. Succesion is a nice fantasy but the fact is the money to replace all the monies and services the federal government provides would mean a massive amount of spending to do things like print money, conduct trade, build embassys world wide, create Armys and coast guards, a Navy and Airforce would be to expensive, creating a tax code and agency to pay for all the stuff the state now has do.
reply to post by MrSpad
You are forgetting that the Federal government receives money from Texas. and if Texans start paying the same tax as they are paying for the federal income tax, there would be no problem.
Not when the US takes back all its equipment. Even armed they would barely be able to replace the border patrol in numbers and now they would have many more borders. Succesion is a nice fantasy but the fact is the money to replace all the monies and services the federal government provides would mean a massive amount of spending to do things like print money, conduct trade, build embassys world wide, create Armys and coast guards, a Navy and Airforce would be to expensive, creating a tax code and agency to pay for all the stuff the state now has do.
You are forgetting that the Federal government receives money from Texas. and if Texans start paying the same tax as they are paying for the federal income tax, there would be no problem.
reply to post by sealing
Your numbers are a little outdated, 116,176 last I checked
petitions.whitehouse.gov...
I think it would be safe to say since Romney won the Texas vote, in spite of most Republicans not really liking Romney, the obama supports are vastly out numbered. Which in turn, if it were to come down to brass tacks, Republicans would be the leading supporters for secession.
So throwing out the total population of Texas is a gross over assumption of people who wouldn’t be willing.
Sure there will be those who are opposed, I am not 100% on it just yet either. I know even during election time, when the supposed “other half” of Americans were supporting obama, I saw hundreds of Romney and only a hand full of obama stickers and signs..
I much rather would have seen someone like Ron Paul or Allen West make it to the ballot, but its not a perfect world yet…lol
petitions.whitehouse.gov...
I think it would be safe to say since Romney won the Texas vote, in spite of most Republicans not really liking Romney, the obama supports are vastly out numbered. Which in turn, if it were to come down to brass tacks, Republicans would be the leading supporters for secession.
So throwing out the total population of Texas is a gross over assumption of people who wouldn’t be willing.
Sure there will be those who are opposed, I am not 100% on it just yet either. I know even during election time, when the supposed “other half” of Americans were supporting obama, I saw hundreds of Romney and only a hand full of obama stickers and signs..
I much rather would have seen someone like Ron Paul or Allen West make it to the ballot, but its not a perfect world yet…lol
Originally posted by yourmaker
What would be the difference between the United States and Texas-America?
Texas would still have McDonalds, Coca-Cola etc.. nothing would change except the name.
And then you'd have a big ass unnecessary border between friendly states.
Just remove the Fascists in the central government and your problems will go away.
You don't need to dissolve the Republic.edit on 21-11-2012 by yourmaker because: (no reason given)
Oh, how you have managed to oversimplify what would be an almost impossible task. Day one: Oh #, we don't have a national currency!
One second later: How come our radio, television and internet access isn't working anymore?
reply to post by Juggernog
Right. Instead of asking for funds to declare the effected counties as disaster areas, ol Perry wanted to declare the entire state a disaster area. I live in Texas and the entire state was not a disaster area.
Right. Instead of asking for funds to declare the effected counties as disaster areas, ol Perry wanted to declare the entire state a disaster area. I live in Texas and the entire state was not a disaster area.
Originally posted by usernameconspiracy
Originally posted by yourmaker
What would be the difference between the United States and Texas-America?
Texas would still have McDonalds, Coca-Cola etc.. nothing would change except the name.
And then you'd have a big ass unnecessary border between friendly states.
Just remove the Fascists in the central government and your problems will go away.
You don't need to dissolve the Republic.edit on 21-11-2012 by yourmaker because: (no reason given)
Oh, how you have managed to oversimplify what would be an almost impossible task. Day one: Oh #, we don't have a national currency!
One second later: How come our radio, television and internet access isn't working anymore?
You make it sound like Texas depends on the Federal government somehow. The truth is that Federal government depends on Texas a lot more.
Link
It's easy to attempt to belittle the Texas independence movement with stereotypes, but far harder to beat it with facts. And the fact is, a Republic of Texas would be eminently economically healthy.
edit on 21-11-2012 by whatsecret because: (no reason given)
reply to post by MrSpad
Almost half of the military assets currently in Texas belong to Texas. There would be no shortage of equipment either as we already have a military force established and fully operational. The Texas National Guard, which rivals the number of US Military members stationed in Texas, not taking into consideration the members of the US Military who decide to remain in place.
That is also where the federalization of state and local law enforcement steps come into play. The Texas Rangers have been back on the border conducting anti-cartel and other Covert operations for years now.
Texas has all kinds of state funded agencies already in place to cover the loss of any form of federal protection. Not to mention would have no shortage of volunteers to step into these spots.
Almost half of the military assets currently in Texas belong to Texas. There would be no shortage of equipment either as we already have a military force established and fully operational. The Texas National Guard, which rivals the number of US Military members stationed in Texas, not taking into consideration the members of the US Military who decide to remain in place.
That is also where the federalization of state and local law enforcement steps come into play. The Texas Rangers have been back on the border conducting anti-cartel and other Covert operations for years now.
Texas has all kinds of state funded agencies already in place to cover the loss of any form of federal protection. Not to mention would have no shortage of volunteers to step into these spots.
reply to post by usernameconspiracy
You dont even know what youre talking about. You act as if any funds that MAY have been given to Texas, wouldve gone to a county that was not affected by the wildfires.
A disaster is declared for a state, just like it was during hurricane Rita, then the funds go to the counties affected by the disaster.
Do you think funds for Rita were redirected to, El Paso county, for example? Give it up
You dont even know what youre talking about. You act as if any funds that MAY have been given to Texas, wouldve gone to a county that was not affected by the wildfires.
A disaster is declared for a state, just like it was during hurricane Rita, then the funds go to the counties affected by the disaster.
Do you think funds for Rita were redirected to, El Paso county, for example? Give it up
Just want to throw my two cents into the discussion.
I'm tired of hearing about if Texas were to secede, this would happen, that would happen financial doomsday blah ah blah. Here's a dose of reality: foreign countries have the US dollar as their currency; USA citizens receive payments in countries worldwide; the USA has military bases in foreign countries with dependants and children living on the local economy- so all this B.S. that Texas would have to invent a currency and the military bases would close, the retirees would be disenfranchised, and the borders with the USA would close and the USA citizens residing in Texas would have problems - are unfounded assumptions. There is no reason to assume the borders are going to close or that the citizens of the united states of america would be treated any differently in Texas (and perhaps vice versa). These things are not given nor assumable in the present environment. The good ole IRS has their hooks into ya worldwide so just cause you live in Texas doesn't relieve your IRS tax liabilities as far as the USA is concerned. Unless the IRS figures a way to tax every american for the deficit, you stand a pretty good chance for seceding without having to worry about your individual share of the national debt causing you any concern over the coming decades. There would have to be the disavow of USA citizenship or at least the affirmation of Tejas citizenship supra ordinate to citizenship in the USA.
I'm tired of hearing about if Texas were to secede, this would happen, that would happen financial doomsday blah ah blah. Here's a dose of reality: foreign countries have the US dollar as their currency; USA citizens receive payments in countries worldwide; the USA has military bases in foreign countries with dependants and children living on the local economy- so all this B.S. that Texas would have to invent a currency and the military bases would close, the retirees would be disenfranchised, and the borders with the USA would close and the USA citizens residing in Texas would have problems - are unfounded assumptions. There is no reason to assume the borders are going to close or that the citizens of the united states of america would be treated any differently in Texas (and perhaps vice versa). These things are not given nor assumable in the present environment. The good ole IRS has their hooks into ya worldwide so just cause you live in Texas doesn't relieve your IRS tax liabilities as far as the USA is concerned. Unless the IRS figures a way to tax every american for the deficit, you stand a pretty good chance for seceding without having to worry about your individual share of the national debt causing you any concern over the coming decades. There would have to be the disavow of USA citizenship or at least the affirmation of Tejas citizenship supra ordinate to citizenship in the USA.
Texas secession is feasable, definitely.
I think the rest of the country needs Texas, more than Texas needs them. Because of this, the US would never let us go peacefully. There's too much money they would lose. It would be the divorce battle of the millenium.
I know of quite a few people around here that are all for secession, and the quiet, behind-the-scenes talk in Austin supports it. I have heard this from businessmen with ties to the capitol.
However, nobody wants another civil war. We all know how the feds are when they are served with divorce papers, they'd rather slaughter us all then see us leave peacefully.
I think the rest of the country needs Texas, more than Texas needs them. Because of this, the US would never let us go peacefully. There's too much money they would lose. It would be the divorce battle of the millenium.
I know of quite a few people around here that are all for secession, and the quiet, behind-the-scenes talk in Austin supports it. I have heard this from businessmen with ties to the capitol.
However, nobody wants another civil war. We all know how the feds are when they are served with divorce papers, they'd rather slaughter us all then see us leave peacefully.