The Canadian-China Investment Treaty; what should be done??

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posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 10:33 PM
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I have signed this petition, do as you will. It is my opinion this deal is toxic for Canadian sovereignty, and will only lead to bad things. I STRONGLY suggest Signing, and passing it along, through word of mouth, protest, whatever it takes. This is going to be really bad for us....

Just a couple of things from this deal;

The Canada-China Investment Treaty requires that if, in the future, Canada wants to conserve natural resources (fisheries, water, oil, uranium, forests – everything is covered), and reduce Chinese access to these resources, we are only allowed to do so to the extent we limit our own use of those natural resources.

The Canada-China Investment Treaty allows Chinese companies (including state-owned enterprises) to sue Canada over decisions that can limit or reduce their expectation of profits. This means China can claim damages against Canada for decisions at the municipal, provincial, territorial or federal level. Even decisions of our courts can give rise to damages.

It seems Harper is negotiating us back into Colonial Status.... here's a quote from a website following the story, and it is a good point;


When our government has the legal power under our Constitution to enter into deals over which our very own Supreme Court has no jurisdiction, then what distinguishes us from a colony?


Thoughts??
edit on 20-11-2012 by anon4m05 because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 10:40 PM
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Doesn't seem right that the government would sign anything like that. Something fishy going on up there?



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 10:43 PM
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reply to post by anon4m05
 


Sounds like the NAFTA scam but now with china!!! ..... great



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 10:45 PM
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Screw China, to hell with China.



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 11:43 PM
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Another article. I decided to check out what the potential benefits were....but honestly, I couldn't really find anything.

Here are two more links, one is a PDF that I suggest reading;

Canada China Investment Treaty Information Round-up


Critics have called FIPA a "31 year ball and chain on Canada" that would hand over (TAKING APART TORIES' PARTY LINE ON CHINA-CANADA TREATY.pdf)unprecendented control over the country's pace and scale of resource development to China
edit on 20-11-2012 by anon4m05 because: (no reason given)
edit on 20-11-2012 by anon4m05 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 12:59 AM
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Originally posted by anon4m05
I have signed this petition, do as you will. It is my opinion this deal is toxic for Canadian sovereignty, and will only lead to bad things. I STRONGLY suggest Signing, and passing it along, through word of mouth, protest, whatever it takes. This is going to be really bad for us....

Just a couple of things from this deal;

The Canada-China Investment Treaty requires that if, in the future, Canada wants to conserve natural resources (fisheries, water, oil, uranium, forests – everything is covered), and reduce Chinese access to these resources, we are only allowed to do so to the extent we limit our own use of those natural resources.

The Canada-China Investment Treaty allows Chinese companies (including state-owned enterprises) to sue Canada over decisions that can limit or reduce their expectation of profits. This means China can claim damages against Canada for decisions at the municipal, provincial, territorial or federal level. Even decisions of our courts can give rise to damages.

It seems Harper is negotiating us back into Colonial Status.... here's a quote from a website following the story, and it is a good point;


When our government has the legal power under our Constitution to enter into deals over which our very own Supreme Court has no jurisdiction, then what distinguishes us from a colony?


Thoughts??
edit on 20-11-2012 by anon4m05 because: (no reason given)


Wow sounds scary. I grew up thinking that our g--v actually had our backs in some ways. I actually was so DUMB that I believed they were sort of a force for good for the people. Eventually they started to show their hands in various ways and I realized what they really are. They're simple about the same as the NAZI's. The only difference is most things about about financial tyranny against the people. No, they are definitely not to be trusted at all!



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 01:59 PM
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Harper is neither an idiot nor a sellout.

Chinese state companies will invest in building mammoth infrastructure projects in Canada, that meet Canadian safety and industry regulations. China will rapidly develop what would take Canadians generations to build on their own. At the end of the 31-year deal, it all defaults back to Canadian control.

The Canadian supreme court will still hold sway over decisions on China-Canada trade. Harper is shrewd and will find a way to use the SC to his advantage, when necessary. These concessions to China are temporary, they are for the short-term, and are meant to fuel his greater plans for this country because American capital and politicians will not help him. China has to be appeased in order to accept this deal.

The only real way for the Chinese to enforce their control of these projects against Canadian government decisions is by projecting military might and/or freezing Canadian economic activity in China. Neither of these options really help China.

If they freeze Canadian assets then they will cause great damage to their own economy - - what's worse, suddenly they will have many thousands of workers who are no longer employed, and without constant, complete employment (slavery) the proletariat will have the time to rise up against the Communist Party. Even if they nationalise factories and kep people working, where will they ship the goods? Canadian capital and organization helps the Party maintain order and discipline.

If they project military power, they will find themselves in a world-war scenario. Britain, Australia and the USA would immediately leap to Canada's aid, and the Canadian military would itself be a formidable opponent - - Harper will invest oil royalties in expanding and upgrading the military.

If China doesn't play along with Harper, then they will lose their investments in Canada, and those projects will go to the benefit of Canada and the USA.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
Harper is neither an idiot nor a sellout.


Rather than release assessments and analyses of the treaty, the government has limited Canadians to about five weeks' notice of the treaty text with little opportunity for scrutiny and debate. If the government were serious about making a well-informed decision, it could, for example, establish an independent commission to study and report publicly on the costs and benefits of the treaty for Canadians. We're talkin about 5 weeks to review a decision that will last for 31 years. He's prorogued Parliament to hold onto power when the other parties were about to hold him in contempt of Government, renamed the gov. of Canada to "The Harper Government", the "RoboCall" scandal was traced back to his party when he won a 2nd election.... He's not a sellout or an idiot; he's a thief, a power hungry liar who's only concern is his own legacy.



Chinese state companies will invest in building mammoth infrastructure projects in Canada, that meet Canadian safety and industry regulations. China will rapidly develop what would take Canadians generations to build on their own. At the end of the 31-year deal, it all defaults back to Canadian control.


We don't know that. What we know is that China will be the Capital investor; they may build infrastructure, they may not. That remains to be seen. What we DO know is they will be injecting massive amounts of capital into Canada. Think back to the quote "Give me control over a nations currency, and I care not who makes it's laws." ; the same applies here. Though instead of "Controlling the currency of Canada", China will control the Flow of credit and capital investment. IMO, Why would the chinese government invest so heavily in infrastructure in Canada only to have it leave it's hands after? China's own infrastructure needs development; this deal is more about aquisition of resources and investment capital in China-owned businesses in Canada. It will hamper the ability of Canadian governments to ensure that benefits of resource extraction in Canada accrue reasonably to Canadians. On the other hand, China will retain a wider range of policy tools to discriminate in favour of its own companies in China.


The Canadian supreme court will still hold sway over decisions on China-Canada trade. Harper is shrewd and will find a way to use the SC to his advantage, when necessary. These concessions to China are temporary, they are for the short-term, and are meant to fuel his greater plans for this country because American capital and politicians will not help him. China has to be appeased in order to accept this deal.


They may hold "Sway"; but when it comes to democratically authorized decisions made by the Canadian people, The Supreme Court of Canada should have Authority, not"sway"; the word of our Supreme Court is law, but not under this treaty. These concessions are NOT temporary, and will be in effect for 31 years, without any future court or government being able to change anything without the consent and approval from China. Disrupting our Sovereignty much??


The only real way for the Chinese to enforce their control of these projects against Canadian government decisions is by projecting military might and/or freezing Canadian economic activity in China. Neither of these options really help China.


Completely and utterly wrong. China can enforce their control of these projects via Closed door arbitration, which as mentioned above, challenges democratically authorized decisions. The arbitration mechanisms under these treaties enrich lawyers and arbitrators, but there is little evidence that they can protect Canadian business in a meaningful way against a major player like the Chinese government, especially when China has retained the right to continue to discriminate in favour of its own companies. Under the treaty, both Canada and China can keep their existing laws and practices that discriminate in favour of their domestic companies, and these existing laws and practices are then locked in. Because China has more discriminatory laws and practices than Canada, the only thing being frozen, is an unlevel playing field in China and a relatively level one in Canada.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 04:20 PM
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If they freeze Canadian assets then they will cause great damage to their own economy - - what's worse, suddenly they will have many thousands of workers who are no longer employed, and without constant, complete employment (slavery) the proletariat will have the time to rise up against the Communist Party. Even if they nationalise factories and kep people working, where will they ship the goods? Canadian capital and organization helps the Party maintain order and discipline.


Again, not true. If current trends were to continue (tracking from inward Foreign Direct Investment flows during 2008 to 2011), the ratio of Chinese investment in Canada to Canadian investment in China would increase from about 2 to 1 now to 10 to 1 in approximately 10 years. Also, Chinese investment in Canada would exceed U.S. investment in Canada after roughly 17 years. Incidentally, this is just over halfway through the minimum 31-year lifespan of the Canada-China treaty. Freezing Canadian assets would do nothing to China, because Canadian assets are next-to-none in China.



If they project military power, they will find themselves in a world-war scenario. Britain, Australia and the USA would immediately leap to Canada's aid, and the Canadian military would itself be a formidable opponent - - Harper will invest oil royalties in expanding and upgrading the military.


I certainly hope our allies would jump to our aid, but these scenario is highly unlikely.


If China doesn't play along with Harper, then they will lose their investments in Canada, and those projects will go to the benefit of Canada and the USA.

Under the treaty, it doesn't matter if China "plays along"; this isn't some treaty that, based upon the behaviour of the investor (China), we can simply "opt out of". If they don't play along? We have to deal with.

I strongly suggest you look into this further.
edit on 25-11-2012 by anon4m05 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 08:33 PM
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Also, I am not posting this as doom and gloom; more of a critical discussion on the matter. It certainly deserves our attention, at least IMO.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 08:37 PM
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reply to post by anon4m05
 


Oh Jeez. Just what I'd expect from Harper - more support for the global corporate government. Petition signed and sent.



posted on Nov, 25 2012 @ 08:52 PM
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From what I have read China has this treaty with 70 other countries and Canada has it with 30. So Canada has many of these, is it just because it is China that peope are upset?



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 02:18 AM
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reply to post by MrSpad
 


Canada does have many of these treaties. However, that being said, this treaty is different; in those other treaties (excluding NAFTA), Canada is the "Capitol-Investor"; In this treaty, China is the capital investor, and the treaty could seriously undermine Canadian Sovereignty
edit on 27-11-2012 by anon4m05 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 08:16 AM
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reply to post by anon4m05
 


Canada prides itself on being a 'government-corporate' partnership, especially under Harper. I suspect many 'government-corporate' deals name the corporation as the 'capitol-investor.' ...NAFTA certainly allows corporations to override sovereignty.

Can you please explain what 'capitol-investor' means and implies?


Thanks, sofi



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by anon4m05
 


Canada prides itself on being a 'government-corporate' partnership, especially under Harper. I suspect many 'government-corporate' deals name the corporation as the 'capitol-investor.' ...NAFTA certainly allows corporations to override sovereignty.

Can you please explain what 'capitol-investor' means and implies?


Thanks, sofi





I'll do my best; I'm not 100% sure, but I am to believe that it connotes the nature of the trade agreement. That is to say, in a situation where Country A invests in Country B, and Country B invests MORE in Country A, that Country B would be the "Capital Investor". In some form, perhaps, it indicates the "direction" of cash flow; Capital from China going into Canada, but not much from Canada going into China. That my best guess; now I have a question of my own..... Can you please explain 'government-corporate' partnership? lol



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 02:56 PM
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So, where can we read about this deal in plain English? I have to admit, even after reading the links< I don't really understand it.

Chinese businesses operate so differently from ours that I don't understand how it will work. For instance the use of lead paint in children's toys and other such corner cutting and money saving ideals that seem to be accepted there and not here. How will these things be addressed?

What about our resources? There are a tad more people in China than here. If for instance their businesses need oil, water, lumber, etc. to create things for sale in China, what is to stop our land from being completely pillaged?
edit on 28-11-2012 by icmom because: mispelling



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 02:59 PM
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This is so ridiculous.

It's not bad enough that we've sold pieces of the tar sands to China, or that our politics are increasingly influenced by Chinese lobbyists, but now we are going to allow ENTIRE take over of Canadian companies by a Communist Government?

Hell No.

Mr. Stephen Harper, you sir are a traitor to the Canadian Public.

Mark my words this will be the single largest mistake a government has ever made in Canada.

It's disgusting and insidious.

~Tenth



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 07:20 PM
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reply to post by anon4m05
 



..Can you please explain 'government-corporate' partnership? lol


As explained in a newscast a few years ago by Canada's Federal Minister responsible for negotiating copyright and intellectual property rights laws (paraphrased) - Canada originally was developed by corporations (like the Hudson's Bay Company) in partnership with government - Canada was, is and always will be a government-corporate partnership. Personally, I'd like the Harper government to explain that one.





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