Radioactive decay rate change, can YOU feel it??

This is my first thread, please excuse the lack of links and the possibility that this may be the wrong place for this subject...
It's relatively old news that scientists and physicists noticed a link between radioactive decay rate change and a "mysterious" particle (possibly from a previously unknown interaction between neutrinos and radioactive isotopes) by the sun. It was suggested that up to 39 hours prior to solar flares, radioactive decay rates, in various labs, would speed up. They are now working on using this to predict solar flares but, to my knowledge, it is still in the works.

Does anyone know if there is research on the effects, if any, on the radioactive elements naturally found in the human body? Please post any links if so.

Has ANYONE, who keeps track of solar flares, noticed a change in the way they FEEL prior to, during or after solar flares? If so, how did you feel?

I would also like to ask anyone who will, to get a solar flare app so you can be alerted to flares in real time, and make a quick post if you experienced any unusual symptoms (such as fatigue, nervousness, dizziness, etc) or if no change is noticed.

Again, I'm not sure if this is the proper place to post this. If not, I apologize and admin feel free to relocate if need be!

Any USEFUL input would be greatly appreciated!! My curiosity on this subject is overwhelming and I've found little information elsewhere. Thank you for stopping by!!

reply to post by ConstantConfusion3


YES. Of course you will just have to take my word on this. I have told my husband more than once "We must be having a solar flare." Lo and behold, I am right every time. I feel out of sorts- lethargic, off balance (physically, lol) and just weird.

I keep wondering what is going on with this!! I was fascinated with it when I first started reading about it, and I still do not understand how we're not still looking at the implications of that!

But haven't heard anything further on this subject at all. Would love to see if anyone else has found more....

I wonder by what process neutrinos are being emitted at a greater (or reduced) rate during flare events? My question is based on the knowledge or at least very well established models that have been tested etc that the neutrinos produced by the sun (or at least the bulk of them at the 99.99% level) are produced at the core. Flare activity is mostly a surface or skin effect caused by magnetic field lines.

As to people sensing it, I am quite doubtful sorry to say... There are a million and one things that have a big effect on the human body, neutrino flux... mmmmm not sure given its minimal effect on the enormous detectors we use to study the flux from the sun. Im talking about 1 interaction per day in some cases. It makes me rather dubious when it would be claimed that the radioactive decay rate changing even by slight amount would be noticeable to a macroscopic creature such as ourselves.

Did you guys pass out from this effect in 1987?

reply to post by ErosA433


Here's one article-
The Sun is changing the rate of radioactive decay, and breaking the rules of chemistry

But practical pluses aside, why is this happening? The seasonal fluctuations suggested the Sun could be involved somehow, and the solar flare connection confirmed it. The scientists speculated that solar neutrinos, the nearly massless particles created as byproducts of the sun's fusing of hydrogen atoms into helium, might be causing these variations.

The fact that these neutrinos pass straight through the Earth with ease fit well with the fact that the decay rates were changing even at night, when the entire planet was between the radioactive isotopes and the Sun.

Once the researchers conclusively ruled out environmental influences, that left the Sun as the only possible cause of the decay variations. They also found that the amount of change varied in time with the Earth's orbit - the effect was greater when the orbit brought the Earth closer to the Sun and thus into contact with more neutrinos.

That's where renowned Stanford physics professor Peter Sturrock entered the picture. Confronted with this mystery, he advised the researchers to test how the decay fluctuations correlated with the Sun's own rotation. They found the decay rates recurred every 33 days, which didn't quite fit with the Sun's known surface rotation length of 28 days. But the neutrinos wouldn't be coming from the surface - they would be coming from deep inside the core. Unlikely as it might seem, the sun's core must be rotating a little slower than its surface, apparently once every 33 days.

Peter Sturrock explains:

"It's an effect that no one yet understands. Theorists are starting to say, 'What's going on?' But that's what the evidence points to. It's a challenge for the physicists and a challenge for the solar people too. [If it's not neutrinos,] it would have to be something we don't know about, an unknown particle that is also emitted by the sun and has this effect, and that would be even more remarkable."

on another-

It’s already been proven that the sun’s mass warps time, bends light waves and accounts for mutation of species on Earth. Now this new force may be directly interacting with matter in a way that could not only change Mankind’s understanding of physics, but change Mankind itself…and not necessarily in a beneficial way.

In fact, some evidence of time dilation has been gleaned from close observation of the decay rate. If particles interacting with the matter are not the cause—and matter is being affected by a new force of nature-then time itself may be speeding up and there’s no way to stop it.

www.pr... ojectworldawareness.com/2010/10/terrifying-scientific-discovery-strange-emissions-by-sun-are-suddenly-mutating-matter/

reply to post by ConstantConfusion3


Actually i do feel something unusual during CME, but not all. Im not prone to anxiety at all but i found out that i get anxiety crisis during big solar flares. Hard time breathing like hyperventilation, numb extremities, PVC... The sun's activity definitely has an effect on the brain, cme or not. Some authors go as far as saying that the global elite knows about this phenomenon and use it to their own benefits, like acts of war when it affects people's minds negatively, more prone to anger and violence or to pass laws easy when the effects make people more "lethargics", reactionless.

And how does it affect you OP?

Thank you so very much to those of you who are supportive! As far as I'm concerned, skeptics will catch up eventually. It took a long time for me to gather enough information to be completely convinced, myself. There is a massive amount of cross referencing involved. I had to learn about physics, just to understand what was going on. It was purely by chance that I even noticed a correlation between human physiology and solar flares.

I too was experiencing fatigue, dizziness, nervousness, and even coordination difficulties that I could not attribute to anything else. And each time I had all of these symptoms, my solar flare alert would go off approximately 39 hours AFTER the onset of this combination of issues. I have noticed that females seem to be more sensitive to the effects. Myself, and the other women I know, would experience similar feelings beginning and ending at the same times.

Common sense tells me, if these particles cause a slight decay rate change in radioactive isotopes being studied in labs, and humans have radioactive elements naturally found in each of our bodies, it SHOULD be effecting us in SOME way. We have quite a bit of potassium (for one example) which is radioactive, that is naturally found in the body. Yes, bananas are by definition, radioactive! I would encorage anyone interested to keep a daily log of how you feel. Make a note, no matter what you believe is the cause, of when you feel any symptoms, what they are, and when they stop. As I said before, feel free to use this thread to keep a log if you would like to.

There is very little research on the subject of decay rate changing particles because the entire concept is apparently hard to swallow for the scientific community, understandably.. In order to progress in physics, it should be studied and applied, instead of wasting time trying to scrutinize (the testing done to attempt to discount the findings done by Purdue and Stanford, is actually helping to prove their case- ha ha!!) Some have fully accepted this occurance and are using it to create a system to predict solar flares about a day and a half before they erupt. This will serve to protect astronauts as well as the massive amount of electrical equipment this planet just HAS to have to survive.

Thank you again for your replies and support!

Originally posted by ErosA433
As to people sensing it, I am quite doubtful sorry to say... There are a million and one things that have a big effect on the human body, neutrino flux... mmmmm not sure given its minimal effect on the enormous detectors we use to study the flux from the sun. Im talking about 1 interaction per day in some cases. It makes me rather dubious when it would be claimed that the radioactive decay rate changing even by slight amount would be noticeable to a macroscopic creature such as ourselves.

Did you guys pass out from this effect in 1987?

Most probably don't even have a clue what you are talking about in 1987 but I know exactly what you mean.

Given that the vast majority of neutrinos pass through the entire planet Earth as if it isn't even there, I fail to comprehend how people think the human body can be any sort of neutrino detector. I try to avoid using the word impossible, tempting as it is, so let me say it seems extremely unlikely, and bordering on the impossible.

Plus, if you're sensitive to neutrinos, or think you are, you are constantly bombarded with them:

Neutrinos

Most neutrinos passing through the Earth emanate from the Sun. About 65 billion (6.5×1010) solar neutrinos per second pass through every square centimeter perpendicular to the direction of the Sun in the region of the Earth.[2]

Originally posted by ConstantConfusion3
Common sense tells me, if these particles cause a slight decay rate change in radioactive isotopes being studied in labs, and humans have radioactive elements naturally found in each of our bodies, it SHOULD be effecting us in SOME way.

But you haven't demonstrated this is the case. You apologized for not having any links, and wondered if this is the right place to post. I can offer some guidance on that.

ATS has a forum called "skunk works" which is described as follows:

ATS Skunk Works: This forum is dedicated to the all-important highly speculative topics that may not be substantiated by many, if any facts and span the spectrum of topics discussed on ATS. Readers and users should be aware that extreme theories without corroboration are embraced in this forum. Discussion topics and follow-up responses in this forum will likely tend to lean in favor of conspiracies, scandals, and cover-ups. Members who would seek to refute such theories should be mindful of AboveTopSecret.com's tradition of focusing on conspiracy theory, cover-ups, and scandals.

If you don't plan to post any support of your claims, then you should post the topic to that location...that's why it's on the site.

But the forum you posted in isn't exempt from requiring supporting evidence like Skunk works.
So I did a search and think I found what you should have posted, is this the article you're thinking of?

Strange Case of Solar Flares and Radioactive Elements

On Dec 13, 2006, the sun itself provided a crucial clue, when a solar flare sent a stream of particles and radiation toward Earth. Purdue nuclear engineer Jere Jenkins, while measuring the decay rate of manganese-54, a short-lived isotope used in medical diagnostics, noticed that the rate dropped slightly during the flare, a decrease that started about a day and a half before the flare.

If this apparent relationship between flares and decay rates proves true, it could lead to a method of predicting solar flares prior to their occurrence

So, that article mentions one observation. Let me repeat.

One.

Do you understand the statistical significance of a sample size of one? If not, let me tell you, it's not a significant sample size. So I did some more research and found the latest paper from Jere H. Jenkins is dated this month, so it's very recent. Here is the link:

arxiv.org...

In that link he references his earlier papers on which that science daily article was partly based, yet I didn't see any subsequent references to any papers confirming this solar flare effect, so unless you can find otherwise, it doesn't seem as if the effect was confirmed or if so I can't find where the confirmation was published.

So it appears to me that one observation is statistically insignificant, and is no basis for establishing any kind of woo belief when the article even says no correlation has been proven. Apparently, that is still the case.

But if you look at the real science, there is some very interesting real science going on here. Maybe if people occupy their minds with the real science, they won't have as much time to think about whether their bodies are solar flare detectors or not.

reply to post by ConstantConfusion3


From Wikipedia's article on Radioactive decay

Recent results suggest the possibility that decay rates might have a weak dependence (0.5% or less) on environmental factors. It has been suggested that measurements of decay rates of silicon-32, manganese-54, and radium-226 exhibit small seasonal variations (of the order of 0.1%), proposed to be related to either solar flare activity or distance from the Sun. However, such measurements are highly susceptible to systematic errors, and a subsequent paper has found no evidence for such correlations in six other isotopes, and sets upper limits on the size of any such effects.

Given the last bit in relation to accuracy and the very small percentage in changes and the limited affected material, has anything changed to make the Radioactive decay rate change an issue?

I skimmed the posts and some allegations and presumptions, like the flare detection seems to go beyond reality...

It amazes me how little the majority of society knows about this. It's unfortunate that instead of investigating things first, human nature says shoot first, ask questions later...

Here is more recent info some may want to read further on...

New system could predict solar flares, give advance warning August 13, 2012 by Emil Venere (Phys.org) -- Researchers may have discovered a new method to predict solar flares more than a day before they occur, providing advance warning to help protect satellites, power grids and astronauts from potentially dangerous radiation. Read more at: phys.org...

I will add more info as I am able to. In the mean time, google "radioactive decay rate change" if it's not too much trouble. The fact is the decay rate is changing. That is a fact, not my opinion. My opinion, is that if other radioactive elements are being effected, the radioactive elements found naturally in all humans SHOULD be effected as well. We all know about opinions, time will tell if MINE stinks or YOURS does!

reply to post by Panic2k11


If it is indeed seasonal, then it seems like the most likely explanation is that it is a relativistic effect, i.e. the distance to the sun, as the closer an object gets to a large mass, the larger the time dilation; this is the same as when an object speeds up.

And that's the problem with reports of studies like the one mentioned in this thread. The researchers don't mention whether they considered this relativistic effect.

I think this is a fine thread OP.
Very intriguing.

And if decay rate was observed to slow down during a solar flare
that should be enough to get many wondering what the implications are.
Subtle or not. I find no woo woo. Just a little understood mechanism
of an enormous energy producer.

Sounds to me like this one experiment coincidentally going
on as a Flare erupted, accidentally caught it, by mistake or odds.
It may be more common than we know.

reply to post by MrInquisitive


That was why I see a problem in how it can be extrapolated to predicting "future" solar flares (I think that it is the point you are making by underlining Relativistic dynamics).

One needs to consider that Sol system is not static. I think that the error may be in that it does not predict flares but can be an early warning for a flare directed to us (I can see that working), but they mention neutrinos, so we are speaking of speed o light (event-to-target), since the scale of the changes are so minimal I don't know how they could get an accurate measurement of the buildup to the peak (as the effect of the flare reaches the destination).

I noticed that the above post, before yours seems to be critical of my observation, since it was not a reply I took the chance to make your own reply to me clearer to all and to address my questioning of the viability further...

Have they included the increased amount of radiation fallout bombarding is daily since just a few days after the FUKUSHIMA NUCLEAR DISASTER that occurred in March of 2011? The infant mortality rates have risen from the amount of radiation carried over by the jet stream and the currents of the Pacific Ocean. I feel there's a massive coverup going on in our mainstream media and government that dwarfs the "Fast & Furious" and "Benghazi" cover ups.

It's probably an interesting and notable short-term effect, but I'd be willing to guess that the effect evens out in the long-term average. Also isn't the sun doing what can also be done in the laboratory with a particle accelerator? Nuclear events aren't exactly that isolated unless shielded from othter sources of radiation and half-life is described on a statistical rather than fixed basis.

Now if the phenomena was strong enough where I could perceptably feel it (as heat produced from accelerated decay), I think I'd be having much more serious issues with radiation burns. We shouldn't have that kind of problem unless something goes terribly wrong with both the magnetosphere and ionosphere, in which case the effect may be like camping out within the Van Allen belt. Also keep in mind that this type of radiaton isn't to be confused with infra-red or UV from direct exposure, since those don't have any noticable effect on radioactive decay.

Originally posted by MrInquisitive
reply to post by Panic2k11

 

If it is indeed seasonal, then it seems like the most likely explanation is that it is a relativistic effect, i.e. the distance to the sun, as the closer an object gets to a large mass, the larger the time dilation; this is the same as when an object speeds up.

And that's the problem with reports of studies like the one mentioned in this thread. The researchers don't mention whether they considered this relativistic effect.

Actually I did find mention of that in my research, but I don't know why you call it relativistic. It's just distance. The Earth is closest to the sun around every January 3rd, so one might expect to see more neutrino radiation at this time just because of the distance and geometry.

Originally posted by ConstantConfusion3

Read more at: phys.org...

The findings agree with data previously collected at the Brookhaven National Laboratory regarding the decay rate of chlorine 36; changes in the decay rate were found to match changes in the Earth-sun distance and Earth's exposure to different parts of the sun itself, Fischbach said.

And also:

Further research is needed to confirm the findings and to expand the work using more sensitive equipment, he said.

These changes are small and they need more sensitive equipment. If confirmed, it's an interesting effect but it still seems like a stretch to think the human body can detect a 0.1% change, which is the order of magnitude of the changes seen. And there's still the "If it's confirmed" according to your source...meaning it's not confirmed yet.

Also, keep in mind there are many other factors affecting us at any given time, like temperature swings and humidity swings and atmospheric pressure swings and the the list is long, that can be much greater than that 0.1%. So even if somehow humans were sensitive to such small changes there would still be the signal to noise ratio, compared to all the other things we are known to be sensitive to.

Ok here's a couple links:

PhysicsWorld.com

Discovery News Link

I will post all the links I have as soon as I get more time to do so. None of this information should be taken the wrong way, although there are some websites crying DNA mutation, it is nothing of the sort. A very slight percentage of rate change, but it is varied nonetheless. I do wonder how that variation could effect the decay events within living beings.

I apologize for not directly responding to each post, I am very busy with my children so it is difficult to dedicate the time necessary to discuss much. I will, however, post more info as I can for all to do with as you please. Take care!

Originally posted by MrInquisitive
reply to post by Panic2k11

 

If it is indeed seasonal, then it seems like the most likely explanation is that it is a relativistic effect, i.e. the distance to the sun, as the closer an object gets to a large mass, the larger the time dilation; this is the same as when an object speeds up.

And that's the problem with reports of studies like the one mentioned in this thread. The researchers don't mention whether they considered this relativistic effect.

Replying again because I don't think my first reply was complete.

In addition to the annual effects there are other claimed solar-related effects which wouldn't be related to time dilation. In addition to 12 month, there are 6 month and even 1 month cycles, plus the solar flares, all claimed to be possibly solar related. But the data is pretty sketchy and they admit they need better data to confirm the correlations they are postulating. Regarding the cause(s), they haven't put much emphasis on that yet but I don't see how time dilation could account for the 12, 6, and one month cycles as well as solar flares, not that I find their data extremely convincing, and even the authors admit it's not, yet.

reply to post by ConstantConfusion3

Thank you for posting sources. It makes your thread a lot better!

Tesla actually predicted that nuclear decay involves particles coming from the Sun, its very interesting and probably related to neutrinos. It makes me wonder if a neutrino triggers beta decay, instead of releasing an anti-neutrino afterwards.

However all this stuff about feeling neutrinos is clearly nonsense, there is no physical mechanism to feel a neutrino. It's impossible.