A man a woman and an apple.

reply to post by amatrine

The concept of no physical death is based on the Religious Text of the Bible. It is a Religious Belief and is not backed by Science or Logic nor can it be proven.

We know with 100% certainty that Humans have existed in various forms of development for at least 5 Million Years. We also know that Modern Man is a classification that contains two of these forms of Humanity...Homo sapiens and Cro magnons.

Cro Magnons first appeared 40,000 Years Ago. Homo sapiens as we are now evolved from Cro magnons who were virtually identical to us...as we appeared 12,000 years ago. We are the current Evolutionary form of what was once Cro magnon.

Previous to this are many Evolutionary forms of Humans. Needless to say all of Mans developmental forms have been found as Fossils. They did indeed DIE. Many fossilized Homo sapiens which we are classified as have been found and Carbon Dated up to 12,000 years ago. Cro magnon fossils have been found and Carbon Dated up to 40,000 years ago. It is important to note that these people who lived 40,000 years ago were almost identical to us and no one here could tell the difference between a Cro magnon and a current day Human in a Police Line up.

Since the Bible states the Earth is less than 6000 years old...it is obvious that Ancient Man wrote it as Ancient Man would not have the knowledge of what the true age of the Earth was nor would he know how long Man had existed.
Split Infinity

reply to post by PaperbackWriter

I used to think as you do and I was an Atheist. I am now an Agnostic for some very good reasons.

I am a HUGE SKEPTIC. I always need Proof before I will believe something. It was much to my Great Surprise when some PROOF presented itself in a manner I was unable to debunk no matter how hard I tried. I was very thorough and systematically went though every possibility to find a Logical Answer for what I experienced. None could be found.

The things I experienced not only surprised me but opened my eyes to the reality that there is much more to existence than I thought there was. It took some time to come to terms with this but it happened and it was very specific as well as apparent.

I am not afraid of Dying as we all die. I am not afraid that there would be nothing after death as we do not have memory of anything previous to birth. So what you are assuming of me is not correct. What I do know is there is something more to our existence than we realize and it is not like anything people have as of yet detailed it will be by Religious Text. It is something quite different. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

I never said I thought Death was the end of the road. What I did say is that I believe that Organized Religion has it wrong. Religion is a form of Control with it's text written by Men.

Religion it is indeed the slavery of the thought.

God didn't create religion.

He created man and all beautiful things on this earth but we humans make it look ugly and soulless.

A Human Body is the culmination of several Billions of Years of Evolution. The Body is a Bio-Mechanical Machine. Our Brains have sufficiently Evolved to the point where we can ponder our existence.

We create the word "Machine" but we didn't create something more beautiful and complex than we are then who create us!

Originally posted by winterkill
What if the story of Eden really took place. What if Earth was actually terra formed 6000 years ago and the translation has been botched on purpose so you would never know.

You might best begin considering exactly what is expressed within the Genesis Account.

No where is there any indication the Earth was Terra Formed 6000 years ago. Adam, the first Agricultural/Farmer individual, was created some 6000 years ago, but many predate him, and that dating is not fixed to a specific time frame.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by piequal3because14

 

The APPLE was most likely a POMEGRANATE as Apple Trees did not grow in the area that was between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers which was the area that was described as the Garden of Eden.

Split Infinity

While you do have some valid points in the expected locale of said Eden, those rivers and names predate the "Creation" of Adam. Throw in the events that occur over the next 1000 or 1500 years leading upto Noah, and then add in a flood where familiar civilization needs, (or begins) to re-emerge, and we loose all clarity of where exactly Eden may well have been.

If one was able to locate some Egyptian artifacts that expressed the Tigris and Euphrates prior to the Flood of Noah being located there, then that could make you correct.

Failing that, those rivers, known prior to the flood could be thousands and thousands of miles away from where two rivers that now bear those names are located.

I trust you understand the remarks.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by piequal3because14

 

I don't agree with how its all taught.

After all, god had told them they would die if they ate from the forbiden tree. The serpent told them they certainly would not die, and they ate from the tree and did not die. Now they would later be punished but thats not what god said would happen, he said they would die, so it looks like god lied.

Your expression and expectations are misleading my friend.

Genesis 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

GOD didn't lie. Adam dies my friend.

As for your remarks that followed, I think they bear some truths, albeit mixed within confusion.

The Genesis Account expresses a visitation to Earth, and a direct involvement in the manipulation of Mankind as a species. First, on the "Sixth Day" the Hunter and Gather peoples are created in the image of the "Creators", namely GOD and the Sons of GOD. That's of course the Biblical Expression applied to those Creators.

As for today, the term Alien applies just as aptly as GOD and the Sons of GOD. The Bible is very clear that the Sons of GOD are Alien. Alien meaning of course, not of this Earth. and we see the Fallen, (naughty Sons of GOD whom opt to take the daughters of Man in Genesis 6) leave their place of habitation and come to earth.

But as for Mind Erasure and Abduction that wouldn't have been the case prior to the Fall. They are tweaked creations that stepped forth from what was here previously.

This is continued through to the creation of The Man (Adam) who was designed to till the earth. Along with the WOman, who is wholely seduced by the serpent. These are new and improved individuals. Not previously evolved individuals that are altered to their new task.

Hope that I have made sense in expressing this. I tend to consider people who have something to say Biblically, actually have some understanding of the text prior to offering their views. I don't know you, so if this isn't the case, I can try again, if questions arise.

Anyways, have a good evening

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by UziLiberman
reply to post by itsthetooth

 

christianity stole from every other religious text merely editing the sex parts out and creating bogus concepts like virgin birth.
nope sorry you religious zealots can pretend all you want but all of us here, we're here due to our progenitors having in fact engaged in a sexual act.

in case anyone didn't notice that's what separates the abrahamic faiths from other religions, sexual repression.

A little harsh assessment, seeing that the Abrahamic Faiths come from the common origins of those you duly note.

And I would tend to suggest the repressionism is also a Dogma, Theology, Doctrine issue apposed to being something specific to the Text.

The interpretation is not exactly what is being expressed in the Book of Moses, for example.

I noted earlier, Eve was wholely seduced. This is the meaning of the English term Beguile.

You expression of what occured is quite accurate, and it carries through to the "Biblical Account" as well.

We just have this sect or that sect or cult making up things like Eve ate the Apple, because no one actually reads GOD letter to them. They place a Genealogy and Births and Deaths, and open it to read the one verse the sermon is about that contorts the message and strips away the context, to apply any intended result. Woe to the wolves leading the sheep astray.

Anyways, your expression is accurate. The tales offered by "Others" predating the Expressed Abrahamic Faiths only differ in Names. The message is a constant.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by piequal3because14
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

It is IMPOSSIBLE for only one Man and one Woman to populate a Planet as two people do not have enough Genetic Diversity to create our current population. After two Generations the Grandchildren and Great Grandchildren would have children with Birth Defects as well as those children most likely being STERILE.

Meh Split you might be right but you forget about the infinite divine grace.

We are limited as human beings and we think limited in our world.

"scientific facts are not historical reality"

As Billy Joel says, "You maybe right, but your both crazy.

No offense, but who is created on the 6th Day? MANKIND as a species. They inhabit this earth given dominion over the Flora and Fauna as expressed in the Genesis Account.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

By the time Adam and Eve come into the mix, MANKIND had been here spreading and doing as GOD instructed above.

The HISTORY of MAN makes this abundantly clear as well.

Adam and Eve, where never the first people created, so the premise that all originated from those two individuals is a mute point.

The Scriptures are even clear about this in another place.

Genesis 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

Cain goes to live in NOD, and knew his wife?

Are you going to suggest it was Eve?

Your two are crazy nutters.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by amatrine
reply to post by itsthetooth

 

Yes we do die . Before the apple there was no physical death , now there is.

Thanks for saying this in this simple manner.

I echo your view.

Prior to the "Event" that occurred in the Garden, there is no suggestion that death was a day to day event.

When reviewing the scriptures, we even see some supportive evidence of the notion that death was a foreign concept in the discussion that occurs between GOD and Cain. It appears that when Cain slew Abel, it may have marked the first death.

Biblically, there is a problem, since the two genealogies alone are followed, and those of the 6th Day seemingly are omitted with an intent.

Some may have died through their normal day to day lives since Hunting and Gathering do have some implied dangers. The wounded beast may have turned and fought back killing someone, or those fruits in the upper limbs that looked delicious, where on branches that did not bear the weight of the person who climbed the tree, resulting in the Gatherer plummeting to the earth.

I digress....................

There is also the premise found around the planet that suggests there had been Immortals here. That was the main goal of Gilgamesh, wasn't it? To seek the secret of immortality?

Anyways, an excellent point Amatrine

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by amatrine

 

Since the Bible states the Earth is less than 6000 years old...it is obvious that .......................

Again, NO WHERE does the Bible State anything like this. You really must stop spreading LIES, and making grand statements based upon the LIES you fuel.

The Only thing 6000 Years Old in the Bible is the Genealogy of Adam. NOTHING ELSE but Adam and his Bloodline through to Christ.

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by piequal3because14


As it maybe clear, I have read your thread and now turn my attention to your thoughts.

There was never an Apple.

There was a fruit, but it is symbolic apposed to an actual fruit.

It is wonderful to inquire and seek answers, but those answers have been presented to YOU in the letter GOD had created for YOU.

Take the following conversations and your should clearly see the answer you seek.

First, GOD and Eve. There is meanings to words my friend. Consider these words.

Genesis 3:13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

The Serpent utterly seduced Eve.

5377 nasha' naw-shaw' a primitive root; to lead astray, i.e. (mentally) to delude, or (morally) to seduce:--beguile, deceive, X greatly, X utterly.

I suggest based upon the next part of the conversation between GOD and the serpent.

Genesis 3:14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Two things are here.

1 - A severe curse is administered
2 - Talk turns to Seed, as in offspring. Not speaking in terms of fruits, but conception.

And then we have this section of conversation that takes place again, between GOD and Eve.

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Again, we have completely left the premise of Eating Fruits behind and smacked right into Child Birthing.

Now, if you opt to ignore the Context of the Chapter, and the thought brought forth within the whole text, to affix your belief that this matter of Forbidden Fruits is something to do with an Apple, then that's your choice to make.

I would suggest you study the Text yourself first, prior to making that choice.

King James 1611 Bible
beguile

A couple of links for study, and research.

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by Shane

Very true are your words and thank you for them.

There was never an Apple.

The apple is an imaginary one,
"The key of this growth is the snake ,he is still present today in an apple,as we eat from that apple everyday without knowing."

"When a man looks into a woman's eyes between them suspended in air stands an imaginary apple."

It is wonderful to inquire and seek answers, but those answers have been presented to YOU in the letter GOD had created for YOU.

It is more complicated than this from a scientific point of view but here somewhere around these boards you may find an answer.

reply to post by piequal3because14


Thanks for the remarks.

I understand your suggestion in regards to the Science aspect. Pending one's outlook on the Time Line of the Genesis Account, there isn't much different in the story line, as it applies to the Heavens and the Earth. That is a topic spoken to in much more detail in several other books in the Bible. Job has some insightful remarks within that event.

I actually enjoy Science and have never believed the presumed or implied assertion that Science and the Bible are polar opposites. What can be found, but IS seemingly overlooked or ignored, (as the case maybe ), within the scriptures is really much different than most sects or cults of Christianity offer. But then, that's is where the Dogma, Theology and Doctrine override the Word of GOD to promote concepts that actually are contrary to what is within the Bible.

We had a very excellent thread that presented a Biblical Account from "In The Beginning" to the Start of Humanity, as we know it to be today. You can review it at The Following Thread

Anyways, Thanks again and chat later.

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by Shane


The Adam and Eve story is based on another story that comes from the ancient Sumerians. Humanity has been around for some 5 Million Years in one form or another.

The story of Adam and Eve is just that...A STORY. Split Infinity

reply to post by Shane

The Bible implies this timeline. You are correct that it does not specify. But the reality is that Modern Man in the form of Cro Magnon which are almost identical to Homo Sapien have been around for 60,000 years.

You would not be able to tell the difference between us and Cro Magnons. They had a larger brain than we did.

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

While I agree in context to the Sumerian and other cultures predating the narrative expressed in the Books of Moses, it is from UR that this Story comes from. Abraham came from a "Cradle of Civilization" region, and the "story line" would echo that of the elder. Names and minor variances are all that separate a majority of these tales.

The basic information still reflects a common theme.

As for the Story of Adam, again I express it as follows. From the period after the "Day of Rest" which would be the 8th day, if one is so inclined, Adam is created. The Bible records a Genealogy from Adam to Christ. This is the Old Testament and first few books of the New Testament. A Family Line. That Family line, taking today into account is 6000 Years old, roughly speaking.

As for the "suggestive aspect" that dates the earth, which a great segment of Christians tend to agree with, yes, if could be confused as indicating this. (The earth is 6000 years old)

Thankfully, we only need to read our Bible to see this concept is a outright lie, or at best an intended misconception with the Goal to Keep the Sheep Stupid.

The Pulpit, will say what the Sheep need to know. They say, so it must be true.

There are many similar occurrences that express confusing concepts while the simple solution tends to be ignored. Reading the Bible. It is quite clear about things like this.

And I also agree that something resembling Mankind, as we are today, have inhabited this planet for many years and predate most of what is even expressed in Genesis 1. As is shown in the Link presented earlier, the Bible doesn't argue that. This Planet is Ancient, and it's history vastly larger than most sects / cults of Christianity would like the Sheep to believe.

I trust you also understand what it is I am suggesting.

Your position is quite valid. ;up;

I also believe the Bible's Account is just as valid, when reviewed and context is considered.

Have a good evening.

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by Shane

I understand your suggestion in regards to the Science aspect. Pending one's outlook on the Time Line of the Genesis Account, there isn't much different in the story line, as it applies to the Heavens and the Earth. That is a topic spoken to in much more detail in several other books in the Bible. Job has some insightful remarks within that event.

First thank you for the link.

Bible is a book to get man closer to his own hi(story),in the same time Science has it's own Bible,the Bible of science is writen in the modern times of mankind.

What we should remember that both are written in books and both can be subject of modification as events will occur.

Shane,

Could you please explain how it is that you came to take the writings of the bible so literally?
Lots of study, memorising verses while young, a burning desire to disprove other religions?

Please take my little test and report your findings. Your writing is very thorough and you are so very well spoken it would enlighten me. Thanks.

When you quote from the bible, have you ever asked yourself this:

1. Who was there?
2. Who saw it?
3. Who wrote it down?

A modern day court of law won't let you even testify if you can't answer these questions in regard to a case.
And the courts are becoming more ATS monded everyday..."Pics or it didn't happen"....lol

Thanks in advance,

oxi

reply to post by Shane


You wrote a very elegant post. Here's to you!

Split Infinity

Originally posted by Oxidadoblancoquepasa

Shane,

Could you please explain how it is that you came to take the writings of the bible so literally?
Lots of study, memorising verses while young, a burning desire to disprove other religions?

The Bible, (King James 1611 Bible), is a letter to You, inspired by GOD through his servants with a clear and direct message for You.

With that said, I acknowledge there are also flaws with this Letter, albeit due to man. These flaws are found within the Transliteration, which carried more Dogma, Doctrine and Theology of man, and missed the opportunity to simply Translated the Letter, as the Original Texts intended.

Take the confusing aspect of some suggesting this Planet is Ancient, and apply it to those whom opt to think it is only some 6000 years old. This is steming from the applied Term "DAY", and presumed implications that we generally associate to that term. We see it today as a period of time and generally affix 24 hours to be it's intended meaning.

When we look to the actual word used in the Book of Moses, we find this isn't quite that "Fixed", so to speak

yowm yome from an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literal (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figurative (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverb):--age, + always, + chronicals, continually(-ance), daily, ((birth-), each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever(-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as (... live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year(-ly), + younger.

As shown, Yown has many implied applications.

Please take my little test and report your findings. Your writing is very thorough and you are so very well spoken it would enlighten me. Thanks.

When you quote from the bible, have you ever asked yourself this:

1. Who was there?
2. Who saw it?
3. Who wrote it down?

A modern day court of law won't let you even testify if you can't answer these questions in regard to a case.
And the courts are becoming more ATS monded everyday..."Pics or it didn't happen"....lol

Thanks in advance,

oxi

Strange, you make this query, yet that same court of law is based upon Biblical Tenets and when testifying in those courts, one still swears to tell the truth upon the Bible. Strange isn't it?????

Most of the Books of Moses, are writings that in all likelihood, where written years after Moses Died/Was Taken.

They are based upon the Oral Histories of the 12 Tribes, which as note earlier, are coming from a Mesopotamian Origin through Abraham.

I place these writings as being quite accurate in many aspects, YET, I also see the same History presented in other cultures of the Ancient Past. Same events, Different perspective. We must remember, the "gods" had one aim. Self Glorification. The story is the same, and the name get changed to reflect the view point of the specific god, or as the case may be, goddess.

Not too many would have "SEEN" the events expressed in the Books of Moses. (1 Possibility could be Enoch, since there is no indication death came to him.) As for the balance, that would be subjective based on the individual book being addressed.

As for the scribes of these books, this is the Divine Inspiration of GOD through the Instrument being used.

The story presented is expressed and recorded as Inspired.

But when we tend to see this in a more modern outlook, they are collectively bound within one text. referred to as the Bible.

This does nothing to note the colorful past of curious individuals which had a hand in "Crafting" what Scripts where found to be acceptable. Here, Dogma, Theology, and Doctrine seep into the picture and taint it with the a skew perspective of man apposed to what GOD intended.

Take this through to 1611 when a Mason has some Irish Scribes translate and construct the King James 1611 Bible.

Is an Irish Scribe going to argue against the Church of the Day? I think not. What the "Church" wished to have presented prior to the Translation, would carry through in the written account. Concepts non biblical are introduced.

Thankfully we have the Original Texts we can review and see these intentional premises being introduced.

I hope that covers your query.

Have a good evening

Shane