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The Quest To Find Out What Happened With Ancient Science/Knowledge! What Happened And Where Do I S

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posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


Problem is, earth shattering things WERE found there, only we didn't know until after the fact. LIkely many will never be known.


Howdy Furry

Like? If you mean the known advances in hellenistic science or something else? If it was the former it wasn't too earth shattering as the Chinese didn't seem to notice.....




posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 



No, there were not reports of something earth shattering being found there. Problem is, earth shattering things WERE found there, only we didn't know until after the fact. LIkely many will never be known.

But one example is that at Alexandria, Hero discovered the locomotive power of steam.


Ok, question, his works were preserved, we know about them, how was anything lost? I am not sure I understand your point. Can you tell me what Earth Shattering things were found?



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


Are you saying that absence of evidence is evidence of absence?



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 08:59 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


Yes. Do you think otherwise? Do you think we have 25 moons circling us despite the absence of evidence? Or are you saying you believe things with no evidence whatsoever? I don't understand the point of that post either.



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 



I am saying that we have evidence that there were groundbreaking things researched at Alexandria. We have proof of it. Hero's steam work is one such proof. BUT, it wasn't until much, much later that its import was seen. Had it not been preserved, we would not have known of it.

How many other "discoveries" were made whose genius was not readily apparent? Things that seemed so mundane as to likely not give the Chinese or Indians the impetus to take notice, but that (like Hero's simple steam engine) held the key to something far, far greater?

RE: your moons statement....you do a poor job of being sarcastic. We have loads of evidence that there is only one moon well beyond just visual acuity. So, in the absence of evidence that there are more, the evidence that there is only 1 is what rules. I don't understand the point of your reference?
edit on 22-11-2012 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 



I am saying that we have evidence that there were groundbreaking things researched at Alexandria. We have proof of it. Hero's steam work is one such proof. BUT, it wasn't until much, much later that its import was seen. Had it not been preserved, we would not have known of it.

How many other "discoveries" were made whose genius was not readily apparent? Things that seemed so mundane as to likely not give the Chinese or Indians the impetus to take notice, but that (like Hero's simple steam engine) held the key to something far, far greater?

RE: your moons statement....you do a poor job of being sarcastic. We have loads of evidence that there is only one moon well beyond just visual acuity. So, in the absence of evidence that there are more, the evidence that there is only 1 is what rules. I don't understand the point of your reference?
edit on 22-11-2012 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)


I still do not follow. His work is not lost, it was preserved. Can you show me where he knew of any practical use for it? The knowledge was not lost they simply did not know a way to use it, that came later. This is a poor example of ancient knowledge that was USED for a purpose being lost. I think you need to read the OP again, and the statements about the Library I responded to. There is no question that things were invented where the inventor did not know what they had and someone comes along later and says "WOW, do you have any idea what you have here?".



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 10:03 PM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


Seriously, I am not going to explain this to you again. I am sorry you do not understand, and hope that this helps to make it clearer (as it is obvious you don't understand what I am saying, despite my multiple attempts to clarify):

I know it was not lost. I have said that as explicitly as i possibly can. Let this serve as final notice that in front of the entire world I am stating that the steam thing by Hero WAS NOT LOST.

Now that I have hopefully (and finally) put that to rest, lets move on:

It represents an example of something THAT WAS NOT LOST that had great potential that was unseen. It wasn't one of those things that stood out as the genius it truly was to be grabbed up for use by the Chinese or Indians. But, since we know that a lot of stuff was lost, and we know that there were many hidden gems (true gems, like Hero's work) that did exist in obscurity, it would seem to be totally probable that there were some other items of research of equal magnitude, roughly, that were lost.



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


Depends on what you consider a moon

Earth's other 'Moons'

And from the wiki


Quasi-satellites orbit the Sun from the same distance as a planet, rather than the planet itself. Their orbits are unstable, and will fall into other resonances or be kicked into other orbits over thousands of years. Quasi-satellites of Earth include 2010 SO16, (164207) 2004 GU9, (277810) 2006 FV35, 2002 AA29 and 3753 Cruithne. Cruithne, discovered in 1986, orbits the Sun in an elliptical orbit but appears to have a horseshoe orbit when viewed from Earth. Cruithne has been nicknamed "Earth's second moon".



Sorry just picking on you Big Furry! You are correct there is just one moon - most of the time



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


Seriously, I am not going to explain this to you again. I am sorry you do not understand, and hope that this helps to make it clearer (as it is obvious you don't understand what I am saying, despite my multiple attempts to clarify):

I know it was not lost. I have said that as explicitly as i possibly can. Let this serve as final notice that in front of the entire world I am stating that the steam thing by Hero WAS NOT LOST.

Now that I have hopefully (and finally) put that to rest, lets move on:

It represents an example of something THAT WAS NOT LOST that had great potential that was unseen. It wasn't one of those things that stood out as the genius it truly was to be grabbed up for use by the Chinese or Indians. But, since we know that a lot of stuff was lost, and we know that there were many hidden gems (true gems, like Hero's work) that did exist in obscurity, it would seem to be totally probable that there were some other items of research of equal magnitude, roughly, that were lost.


Ok, please re-read the OP and the person who started talking about the Library, here is a quote.

Originally posted by lcbjr1979
reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


I always lived with the assumption that much of the knowledge of the ancients was lost when the library of Alexandria was destroyed.


He is not talking about things that were invented and the use was not realized, he is talking about amazing inventions that were used by the Ancients to build the Pyramids and cut granite better than modern day lasers!

Those things do not exist. Is it possible things were lost in the Library? Yes. What is being discussed in THIS post did not happen. I believe we are on the same page, I simply do not think your point has any validity on this particular post as it is discussing thigs that the Ancients KNEW their use and used them. I believe that is where we are clashing, I am putting your posts in the context of the OP, if I remove that context you have some valid points and I agree with you.



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


touche!



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


yea, i was responding to a poster, not the OP.



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 11:41 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


yea, i was responding to a poster, not the OP.


Yes, you responded to me. My post you responded to was on topic, I would expect a reply to my on topic post to also be on topic. We should just stop this though, as I agree with you that things in the Library could have been lost, just not in the way that the other poster implied. It's quite common for an inventions true potential to not be realized by the original inventor, but by someone else. Even today.



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 12:46 AM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
There's always been a lot of stupid co-existing with a lot of stoopid.
Did I really say that? Must be true, cuz what I meant to say was: There's always been a lot of knowledge co-existing with a lot of stoopid. Duh!


You've got to be kidding me! I had a life-changing epiphany trying to figure out what the hell you meant, and can you imagine the look on my face when I scrolled down, life changed and all so I'm ready to take life by the horns, I'm ready to take on whatever life throws at me, and THIS is what I find?? You meant something entirely different?! Not cool, man.



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 03:02 AM
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edit on 11/23/2012 by subjectzero because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 06:02 AM
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It was the loss of stability that led to this, combined with the rise of Christianity (sorry guys). Allow me to explain (from a European PoV, ignoring the Middle East and Far East achievements!)....

Loss of the protection of Empire meant people had to go back to fending for themselves. It meant the loss of organised farming (on any great scale), it meant the collapse of irrigation (meaning more famine), it meant the loss of time - simply to sit and think about how things work. There was also the wanton mass destruction of written records (both at monasteries and libraries) meaning a further loss of knowledge.

This is all allied to the rise of Christianity as the powerhouse religion. People went from believing that the gods were implaccable, so no point worrying about them too much and instead focusing on what mankind could achieve / fulfill to instead thinking "pah, it is the will of God". This sea change in attitude cannot and should not be underestimated. Whereas before, (some) people strived to understand the world around them, etc, after the collapse of Empire people strove to understand God instead.

To quote the great Stephen Fry, "Religion: S*#! it".
edit on 23-11-2012 by Flavian because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by 3n19m470

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
There's always been a lot of stupid co-existing with a lot of stoopid.
Did I really say that? Must be true, cuz what I meant to say was: There's always been a lot of knowledge co-existing with a lot of stoopid. Duh!


You've got to be kidding me! I had a life-changing epiphany trying to figure out what the hell you meant, and can you imagine the look on my face when I scrolled down, life changed and all so I'm ready to take life by the horns, I'm ready to take on whatever life throws at me, and THIS is what I find?? You meant something entirely different?! Not cool, man.
Sorry...call it my Nigel Tufnel moment:

David St. Hubbins: It's such a fine line between stupid, and uh...
Nigel Tufnel: Clever.
David St. Hubbins: Yeah, and clever.




Self edit to say that I could pump the original concept as stated...but I tend to have a more optimistic view.
edit on 23-11-2012 by JohnnyCanuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 09:43 AM
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Human history has been re-written by the victors of wars, and religious rulers for as long as we've had some form of letters to scribble down. Be it, rocks, wax tablets, papyrus, parchment, or regular old paper. The worlds history isn't what you might think it is. So your statement about finding out about earily greek life..

Well its simple..

They herded sheep, lived mainly in grass huts, unless it was more of a city -state. Then it was alot of huts. They'd spend 98% of there money on building vast temples to there gods. The gods no one ever saw in the flesh.
Sound familiar..
People would be hungry and die but the glourified temples..with all there statues and gold would shine bright for the gods that no one ever saw.

They still do that , you have people all over the world going hungry, but the churches and temples are flowing with gold..and its all to a god that no one has ever seen..

So my point is this. Its nice you want to learn about the ancient past, except you won't find what your looking for, history is written by the conquor's..and re-written, and re-written..

::holds out a cookie:: relax eat this..and by the time you finish it you won't remeber a thing, and you'll feel right as rain..




posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Self edit to say that I could pump the original concept as stated...but I tend to have a more optimistic view

I, on the other hand, saw nothing wrong at all with the statement as originally written. I took it as a reflection on a matter of perspective.

In fact, your first version was by far the cleverer of the two pronouncements. Lesson: always go with your first instinct - even when it's Freudian.

Harte



posted on Nov, 24 2012 @ 01:42 AM
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Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Self edit to say that I could pump the original concept as stated...but I tend to have a more optimistic view

I, on the other hand, saw nothing wrong at all with the statement as originally written. I took it as a reflection on a matter of perspective.

In fact, your first version was by far the cleverer of the two pronouncements. Lesson: always go with your first instinct - even when it's Freudian.

Harte


I too perferred the first version, it made perfect sense in the context of ATS





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