Particle physicists confirm arrow of time — for B mesons

reply to post by AllIsOne


You bloody LEGEND - thank-you!!!

You have exercised the Demon - my house is now clean........

www.veteranstoday.com...

WE need to get our current understanding of science right in regards to time, the planets and so fourth. We base everything on false data. We have it backwards and only time will show us that. (No pun intended)


Linear time is false - therefore time travel becomes possible. There is no paradox in time, its us , man who created that thought, get rid of that thought and time travel works, the whole thing is THERE IS NO PARADOX.


See above link for article about Cern and time recently:

This is what I've always suspected.

So I never subscribed to Time Travel. I think it would take enormous amounts of energy and like you said, it would be suicide. So we're trapped in time so to speak.

Time Travel is possible though.

First I don't call it Time Travel but Time Hopping.

If you can warp space-time, then you're not traveling anywhere. You're connecting say a point in 2012 to a point in 1980.

So again, as soon as your ship "travels" it's trapped by time. When space-time is warped around the ship, then the ship isn't traveling. Space-time is just carrying it from point A to point B.

Originally posted by stirling
There is absolutely no proof i am aware of that "time" is a singular flow.....
There could be many kinds of time depending upon the energy/entropy level of the particular space you happen to inhabit....
Local conditions like gravity, state of field,highly ionized/energized gas clouds could have effects we dont as yet understand....Time...or rate directional flow could be a product of other factors.....
In other words, time could flow at different rates relative to other localities....Indeed the aliens have told us this is so......that time is not uniform.... throughout the universe.....Though we can see this inside of black holes for ourselves....

Stirling, you are absolutely correct there is not one single "absolute time".

Time is always measured with respect to a reference frame. This is one of the basic tenets of Relativity.

reply to post by Maxmars


While it's nice to speculate, we have really no idea what spacetime is. Einstein's theory is like understanding one little wheel in a machine the size of the known universe. I suppose a civilization a million years ahead of us will have a much better grip on the subject.

But then again it's the beauty of science to advance our knowledge one step, or one drop at a time, until we have an ocean.

Cool stuff.

You could go backwards in time I suppose, all you would have to do is make a copy of this universe down to the pinpoint in time you wish to travel, then create a stasis field something that would put you out of the range and effect of entropy, which should not be that hard but escaping the bounds of cause and effect is going to be almost impossible because really that's what gives the universe it's structure and all things you see like the laws of gravity and electromagnetics and all that is just cause and effect in action. But anyways basically you would have to find a way or build something that lets you step out of the matter and rules of the universe. And then you can reverse polarization and contract everything back to that one pin point in time in the universe that you have copied as static data which you wish to go, and then the current universe would diverge and split from the original one going down its own route and the other going down your route.

Off course you would have to know were everything is in the universe you wish to go is, if you want to go in your current form keeping all that you accumulated and are to that point from the other universe ie your divergent spot place and time, and to go back to the place and time you wish to go to you would have to know everything about it down to were every last particle in the universe is, well not that precise as it would do the calculations itself kind of like how the mind fills in gaps, same thing would apply for the universe as its a sort of mind as well. But you would at the least have to know were the planets and the suns and the galaxies are and everything in them at the point in space and time that you wish to go. Because if not then you would probably end up in the void of nothingness in the wrong galaxy or in the middle of a supernova and probably half a billion gazillion miles in the depths of space from were you want to go when you step out of the quote on quote field or into the place and time you wish to go.

And even then if you got everything right on that part then you would have to know things like the rotation of the planet at the specific time and place were you want to go to and were everything is at that specific time place and order because when you shut off or step out of the field you don't want to be in the middle of a mountain or at the bottom of the sea, as it would not likely be good and depending on what ship or whatever contraption you used to escape the other universe and its laws, well things may go boom once something foreign is all of a sudden implanted and introduced into the new universe and that something most likely would be you. It would kind of like all of a sudden a giant iron ship would just sort of go "poof" and appear at the bottom of the ocean it would displace all the matter ie water around it crushing it with its pressure, same idea goes for space and time and everything in it such as the particles you and everything else is made of, leading to much fireworks.

Its simple really, but always leads to much boom more often then not me thinks. It would be best to first step and converge in a neutral zone like in the depths of space and then go to whatever planet and time and place you wish to go. Basically in a way it would be like remodeling a house, it would take more effort and energy to remodel it then it would to build a whole new house from the bottom up. And really time does not exist, its just an expression to describe and keep track in relations to the things in this universe from a point of reference or view that's all it really is. If you try to go back in time without first setting the place and everything in the universe you want to go back to in stasis then it would literally not go back down its original route or anywhere, all matter would just keep going and moving and evolving, all you would have done is just reverse and disrupt its usual on goings, it would be a jumbled mess ie chaos, or as they like to call it primordial, before it sets into different patterns ie life and all that stuff and it would continue on only in a whole different way so in the end you would have not gone back in time you would have gone back into a whole different sort of dimension and arrangement of things.

But hum ya cool cheese, I suppose now they can begin counting and categorizing every single last meson in the universe and all there functions, and how they all fit in to everything else as it would be important data. And when there done doing that likely some few gazillion years from now then we can get started on that time travel machine thingy. Or you can always go the short route and just create a whole new universe. Or do as the gods do destroy this one and recreate another in its place.

reply to post by JayDub113

Quantum Entanglement cannot communicate information. Information cannot be communicated past the speed of light. Even quantum teleportation has the limitation that information must travel at no greater than the speed of light. So while some things might appear to travel faster than the speed of light, the meat and potaoes will have to travel the old fashioned way.

The only scenario where time is constant, is to the observer. Even if we find a way to hop around the past, the observer ie you, will experience time in the same fashion. I do not believe this is possible. What I know is possible is at great speeds, even orbital speeds, you can be shot into the future. Orbital speeds is pretty minimal, the change is there so you have to assume greater speeds will yield greater time differences.

You can never go back in time, only increase the rate of time for you, the observer. (as opposed to everyone else).

Time travel cannot work. Time is a created entity. However, things that exist when time as we know it started, can pass in and out of that reality.

All this is in the Bible yet modern man is just beginning to explain it.

Are we that far behind

Gravity is as to graveity as entropy is to a corpse.
Time on Earth, much different than the concept of time in space whether in deep space or on another planet with it's own atmosphere/chemistry and foreign sets of natural laws not experienced here on Earth. Long topics though there is no time travel to the past as the process of quantum flux creativity in motion moves forward with a new set of variables as catalysts of change in constant >motion>.....though one could venture into space, come back and be as a young man to his eldest son with or without the cane.

Blue shift-Red shift are interesting concepts/topics. I'm sure you remember that one OP?

I beg to differ, as time does not exist ..

time, is a measurement tool ... that is used to measure change.So, time, in and by itself ... is non-existant.

This, to my knowledge, has always been known. However, that any flow of change is irreversible ... is another matter entirely. It means, that "timetravel" is impossible ... but we already knew that, so that part of it, is not really interresting. But, rather, that any change in matter, can never be exactly reversed.

That is how I "read" the meaning of this experiment.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


The problem I see with time travel is in order to go back in time you have to travel faster than time itself which is impossible.. It may be possible to go forward but you could never come back.

Imagine you're standing next to a train track and a train passes you at 299 792 458 meters / second. This is the speed of light and most likely one day physicists will discover the speed of light is actually the speed of time. So if time flows through you into the past at 299 792 458 meters / second, in order to catch up to a specific point in the past, you would have to travel more than 299 792 458 meters / second or you would never catch up to that specific point of time.

This is precisely why you age less when traveling faster. You know the old scenario where person A jumps in a spaceship and travels close to the speed of light and returns to earth only to find he hasn't aged at all but person B who has been waiting for him is now dead because he would have been 900 years old. This is because as you approach the "speed of light" you're actually approaching the speed of time and time slows the faster you're traveling and comes to a halt at 299 792 458 meters / second.

reply to post by Sublimecraft

It's not that the arrow never reached Point B. It was already there.

Originally posted by Maxmars

This would mean that anyone travelling back in time might likely not survive the trip, as the laws of physics indicate a likely breakdown of matter states which would render such a theoretical trip - suicide.

As we move "ahead" in time, everything and all particles around us, including ourselves, go from a state of (somewhat) order to random disorder. This is a direct result of movement in itself. (by the way; "Random" is the key word in the previous statement.)

So what this shows is time moving forward plays a direct factor in the 'amount' of random disorder observed.

Theoretically, the same can be observed as time is reversed, but the disorder moving back in time is as RANDOM as it is moving forward. Meaning the past observed will not be 'exactly' as you remember it.

In simple form; You can't jump ahead in time, get the lottery results, then go back in time and expect to win the lottery with your supposed "winning numbers".

This is because the balls falling from the lottery machine are falling in a equally random manner as they would in any "time line".

Whether it's the past, the present, the future or "re-seen" past..etc, random disorder is ALWAYS a factor.

Originally posted by Sublimecraft
reply to post by Maxmars

 

But, my grandfather, God rest his soul, always talked about the following little paradox with me and it, to this day, still keeps me guessing - what is "time"......

An arrow is fired from point A and arrives at point B some time later – a certain distance away from point A.
In order for it to travel that distance, it must first travel half that distance. In order for it to travel that “half” distance, it must first travel half of that half distance. Mathematically, the arrow must travel through an infinite number of half distances. Therefore the arrow never reaches point B. But we the observer witness it landing at point B.

edit on 20-11-2012 by Sublimecraft because: (no reason given)

Actually if you add up all the distances, they all add up to the distance between A and B. logically when you think about it, and reason that there are infinite half distances, it may seem like an impossible situation. But this is a basically a discrete time system problem, even the geometric series will give you the same answer.

As to the article, I just downloaded it and will read it to critique it. I have a hunch that the scientists may have introduced measurement errors into the experiment. I am wondering what they did with the energy resulting from conversion of particles to anti-particles. Were they really using the corresponding anti-particles of the particles that were in the forward time?

be back later

reply to post by Maxmars


It would seem that the logical implications of unwinding progressive ramification would be enough to debunk time travel, but I'm glad to see that someone took the time and effort to structure the formula proof that basically states the very same thing. What's done can't be undone. Not in reality, anyway.

Thanks for this article. It'll help the next time I'm locking horns with a magicalist disguised as a quantum theorist over this specific issue. What amazes me is that the very discovery (the quantum) that should have put all this nonsense away forever is generally trotted out to give credence to the most impossible beliefs and assertions. I'll never understand how establishing that the infinite gradient is a myth (which is what quantum physics is based on) has become the basis of every other version of infinite presence and/or capacity. It's as if white is the new black when the subject of quantum physics comes up. Like a "bizarro" world of opposites.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
reply to post by JayDub113

 

Quantum Entanglement cannot communicate information. Information cannot be communicated past the speed of light. Even quantum teleportation has the limitation that information must travel at no greater than the speed of light. So while some things might appear to travel faster than the speed of light, the meat and potaoes will have to travel the old fashioned way.

edit on 21-11-2012 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

Quantum Entanglement is only useful in data transmission if the data is binary and the high-low transition patterns can be - then - translated into usable information at the receiving end. The high-low state change happens faster than photon speeds, but it's not instantaneous. Not that anyone or anything could ever determine the difference between the speed of light and the contextual environment's Unit Rate of Change (or the quantum rate of "now", if this works better for you).

Truth is that Quantum Entanglement isn't going to revolutionize communication or data crunching power or much of anything. It's a neat little demonstration that still has modern physics with no idea concerning what exactly is being demonstrated. Then again, modern physics is still looking for evidence of the sticky, gooey Higgs Field to explain why particles exist, so don't expect any breakthroughs for quite a while. Just because you're a hammer doesn't mean that the world is actually made of nails. It just means that you can't imagine the world to be any other way.

reply to post by Maxmars


I once had a pet theory that I played around with that space (absolute void) was similar to a carbon copy on a form of paper. Each singular moment in time was imprinted into that singular point in space forever. Due to the fact we NEVER travel through the same exact point in space twice there is enough room for this without "overlapping" or "rewriting". So everything that has ever happened is still there imprinted in that singular point in space that the singular moment occurred. This also conserves information as it is never lost...

Speed of perception is a factor. Take a blinking light move it from point A) to point B) depending on the speed of the movement of all things considered one could perceive entirely different things. From 1 light blinking, to 3 lights not blinking in different locations, to a line of light blinking or not blinking...etc. The perception of that reality drastically changes in relation to your speed or its speed and the relative speed between the two.

A good experiment to try that will illustrate this is to spin something in a mirror then vibrate the mirror...depending on speed of vibration of the mirror the speed of the object spinning will change...you can make it look like its not moving, or moving slowly or moving backwards etc...

Time is merely the measure of movement through space and you measure that movement with speed and trajectory. Which implies you can change your reality if you can change your speed and trajectory. Astronauts and fighter pilots experience this time dilation. The degree of time dilation (perception change) experienced is directly proportional to the degree of difference in speed/trajectory from our currently locked speed/trajectory here on earth.

For example: the total speed/trajectory that the surface of the earth and everyone on it is traveling is ~1.25mill mph. The surface of earth and everything on it is traveling that fast not in a straight line but in a cork-screw like fashion. Its several different angular momentum trajectories experienced simultaneously...What we perceive is at rest is anything but. If a person in a ship were to travel in the opposite trajectory/speed as the surface of earth the time dilation (reality dilation) would drastically increase.

The human eye can only perceive a certain (I believe ~75 FPS) frames per second and misses anything that exceeds that. This is why most computer monitors cap out at 75hz refresh...anything past that is pointless.

This makes me wonder how much is happening that we aren't aware of. Go to you-tube and watch any number of high speed camera footage and see what 1second is like stretched over a minute...there is A LOT going on there that we are completely unaware of. I'm honestly surprised no one has thought of doing high speed camera photography in space to see what is all going on out there that we could never possibly see.

on micro and macro levels there is much more going on than meets the eye and that is where our imaginations step in to conceptualize that which we cannot perceive.

anyway I have completely blabled on and probably lost everyone at "I once had"

Time and perception/experience of it has always intrigued me thanks for the thread OP!

Originally posted by jonnywhite
reply to post by JayDub113

 

Quantum Entanglement cannot communicate information. Information cannot be communicated past the speed of light. Even quantum teleportation has the limitation that information must travel at no greater than the speed of light. So while some things might appear to travel faster than the speed of light, the meat and potaoes will have to travel the old fashioned way.

edit on 21-11-2012 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

So how does QE happen? Of course it is an exchange of information, but currently science doesn't know how to use it without breaking the entanglement

reply to post by Maxmars


This is very, very hard matter to understand.
OK, I know what Paradox of Time Travel is, relating to, meeting yourself from other time, your parents or other cousins when they were alive and young, etc.
I guess that a lot of energy would be needed for something like that, maybe causing some consequences into our time-3 dimensions continuum.
Interesting, some move toward, I guess...