Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

Native American Indians & The People of Palestine......One in the same..And it's a damn shame.

page: 5
27
<< 2  3  4    6 >>

log in

join

posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 08:29 PM
link   
reply to post by frazzle
 


The left has damaged the Native Americans (Indians) to the point where they owe them a major apology and compensation.




posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 08:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by openyourmind1262
For pete's sake folks I'm talking about the Native Americans of long ago and how they were done. Not modern day Native Americans.


But, in fact, modern day Indians are a lovely comparison to the Palestinian Problem, especially if you look at the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act (ANCSA).



Alaska became a state in 1959 and, of course, those Inconvenient Indians (couldn't resist a plug for Thomas King) had to be dealt with just as the Palestinians needed someplace to go. The Alaska Statehood Act took 100 million acres and, after a decade of legal wrangling with Stuart Udall, they were awarded 44 million acres and around a billion in cash.

Israel owns around 22,000 sq. kilometers and the West Bank and Gaza strip currently have a tad over 6,000 Sq. kilometers.

Sounds like the Indians got a better deal if you ignore population density.


That's where the similarities end, though, because, in 1971, instead of nationhood, the Alaskan Indians became corporations (Sealaska, Arctic Slope Regional Corporation, etc.)

In the end, we'll see who survives as a distinct people who own the land they live on... the Palestinians or the Tlingit, Haida or Aluet.

My money's on the Palestinians over the long run.

edit on 20/11/12 by masqua because: Little mathematical oopsy



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 08:40 PM
link   

Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by dollukka
 



There has never been a country named as palestine, area which was called as palestine was part of Jordan. So according to old testament ( written 1400 B.C ) God gave Israel to jews.


Doesn't matter how many times you repeat that, I have a copy of Collier's World Atlas and Gaxetteer, copyright 1938, right here on my desk which clearly shows on page 100 a country named Palestine, separated from Transjordan by a big orange border . No Israel, though.

Who wrote the Old Testament? Big clue.


In fact Josephus (100 a.d) called it Palastine in greek. and even the greek word is born out of the very old name of the area...Pe-le-sheth (hebrew b.c.) meaning a land of strangers and wonderers....said to be from the word pa-lash or pa-lesh meaning to roll i.e. in dust to morn.

Translated in english as Palestina, Philistia, Palestine.

It is used in biblical and other literature to mean all of historic Israel and.....important here.... in certain context all the nations of that area to include Israel, Juda, and their relations Amon, Edom and Moab. The people know today as "Palestinians" today are certainly of the last three nations which are of very old related to the Israelities.



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 10:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by CincinnatiReds
I take it you're not a believer in Darwinism?


Maybe you should actually understand what Darwinism is. It is not survival of the fittest in the context used today..........



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 10:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by ninjamikec

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by openyourmind1262
 

Interesting analogy.

Theres probably some other good analogies out there as well. Maybe the Civil Rights movement? Difference there being that Blacks were taken from their land. With the Palestinians, their land was taken from them.



What is/are "Blacks"? Are you trying to say Africans? They were not taken, they were sold, mostly by their own people. Some by french settlers.


Are you being serious? Regardless if they were sold or not, the slaves were forcefully TAKEN from Africa. Do you think they willingly wanted to go on a boat ride to a plantation?

And Africans are not one giant blob of people, it was usually warring tribes who sold one another.



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 11:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by DrGod

Originally posted by Quadrivium
reply to post by openyourmind1262
 

How very little do you know of the area?
Even if there was not a Nation of Israel, there would still be fighting in the Middle East.
There is always fighting in the Middle East.
What do you suggest? Get rid of all of the Jews? Get rid of all of the Christians?
There would still be fighting in the Middle East.


Sure.
Get rid of everyone everywhere except for white, fat, southern baptists between the ages of 3 and 63.

I am not a baptist, thank you very much!!!



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 11:24 PM
link   

Originally posted by openyourmind1262
reply to post by MamaJ
 


Thank you. That's exactly what I'm saying. America allmost erradicated the Indians. Israel is erradicateing the Palestinians. And the world watches. As far as a rant about Israel. Israel is a shat hole. It's my opinion. What I don't like is the fact certain mods always invade threads. Is that meant to disrail. Or do yoy all just have nothing at freaking all to do? Sorry to those of you who don't see the parable. You probally the same ones that turm a blind eye toward a Palestinian child being blown to bits. It's a mute point to rant or argue over a shat hole nation like Israel. I hope their erradicated in due time.
edit on 20-11-2012 by openyourmind1262 because: (no reason given)


These threads keep popping up with the same tired lies about the Jews stealing the Palestinians land.
1. There never has been a nation of Palestine and thus there are no Palestinians based on that.

2. Arabs and Jews have lived in the region we call Palestine, so if one is a Palestinian so is the other.

3. The Arabs had 3 nations created just for them in 1917 and given 80% of the land of the Tran-Jordan mandate. Those nations were Syria, Lebanon and Jordan! Israel was given 20% and the Jews lived there already. They didn't steal anyone's friggin land!

4. This region has always fought over land, and differences between Arabs and Persians go almost as deep as Arab and Jew. You could kill all the Jews and these people would still be fighting and trying to control the region.

5. The Arabs have been offered their own territory even after 1917 on three seperate occaisions and they said "no". So, it's not about land, it's about killing Jews for them.

6. Israel has had two wars with their Arab neighbors started by said neighbors. The Arabs lost and as is customary they lost their advantages.

7. Israel is not going to cease being a Nation ever again. The Arabs need to go home to their countries or agree to live in the land in peace.

8. That's not going to happen so we are going to see perpetual war.
edit on 20-11-2012 by UnifiedSerenity because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 11:35 PM
link   
Excuse you, but it was Jewish land LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNGGGGGG before Palestine. And you're b**tching that they got THEIR land back? lol...
edit on 20-11-2012 by Shaxuul because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 11:40 PM
link   

Originally posted by Logarock

Translated in english as Palestina, Philistia, Palestine.

It is used in biblical and other literature to mean all of historic Israel and.....important here.... in certain context all the nations of that area to include Israel, Juda, and their relations Amon, Edom and Moab. The people know today as "Palestinians" today are certainly of the last three nations which are of very old related to the Israelities.


I think your history of how the region became known as Palestine is flawed. The Romans called it that as an insult the the Jews who called the land Israel. The Arabs in the region do not refer to themselves as Philistines at all. Prior to 1967 no one ever spoke of the Arabs living in Israel as Palestinians as if they were some separate people from the Arabs in Jordan, Syria or Lebanon. Most Jordanians are from said Arab groups and are not Hashemites who are the Royal Jordanian family who guarded the holy sites like Mecca.

The Arabs in Israel only started to call themselves Palestinians to try to make themselves appear to have a more legitimate claim to that land than the Jews. That whole region was called Palestine, thus all the Jews, Christians, and Arabs there are Palestinian.

The Turks controlled this region for 400 years! Who did they take it from? Why not give it back to Turkey eh? We know that's not going to happen. Just because some group screams something for 40 years does not make it the truth. The media has coddled these terrorists whose only goal is the destruction of Israel for far to long.

My only solace is something I read about a rabbi in the 1100's used gematria and astrology to predict the future in this region. His dates come down eerily to 2017 as the time of liberation / Messiah. I had already gotten this date by by using biblical references and not code. Here is his prophecy:


JERUSALEM – Judah Ben Samuel was a legendary and prolific German rabbi of the 12th century who made some astonishing and specific predictions about the future of Jerusalem and Israel that came true.

Following the Christian crusades to the Holy Land, between 1096-1270, a regular correspondence developed between the Jews in the Holy Land and the Christian West. Thus, for example, the rabbis in Worms and Regensburg in Germany knew that Saladin’s Ayyubids had been ruling in the Holy Land since 1187.

At this time, Judah Ben Samuel published the results of his biblical calculations (Gematria) and astrological observations and summarized as follows: “When the Ottomans (Turks) – who were already a power to be reckoned with on the Bosporus in the time of Judah Ben Samuel – conquer Jerusalem they will rule over Jerusalem for eight jubilees. Afterwards Jerusalem will become no-man’s land for one jubilee, and then in the ninth jubilee it will once again come back into the possession of the Jewish nation – which would signify the beginning of the Messianic end time.”

One jubilee is 50 years (Leviticus 25). It is the 50th year after seven times seven years, the year in which each person should regain ownership of his or her land. Ben Samuel’s calculations were purely theoretical; there was absolutely no sign at that time of their being fulfilled. He himself was not able to experience their fulfillment, for it was only 300 years after his death that the first of his predictions were to come true.

The Mamluks, who had been reigning in Jerusalem since 1250, were conquered in 1517 by the Ottoman Turks. They remained for eight jubilees (8 x 50 = 400 years), that is to say they were in Jerusalem for 400 years. Exactly 400 years later, in 1917, the Ottoman Turks were conquered by the British. The League of Nations conferred the Mandate for the Holy Land and Jerusalem to the British. Thus, from 1917, under international law, Jerusalem was no-man’s land.

Then, when Israel captured Jerusalem in the Six Day War of 1967, exactly one jubilee (50 years) after 1917, Jerusalem reverted to Jewish-Israeli ownership once again. Thereby, according to the prophecies of Judah Ben Samuel, the Messianic End Times began.

But to recap the astonishing predictions: In AD 1217 this scholarly and pious rabbi prophesied that the Ottoman Turks would rule over the holy city of Jerusalem for eight Jubilees. Now, keep in mind, he made this prediction 300 years before the Ottoman Turks seized control of Jerusalem in 1517. If indeed 1217 and 1517 were jubilee years as Judah Ben Samuel believed, then his prophecy was exactly right, because exactly 400 years after the Turks took control of Jerusalem they were driven out of the city and the holy land in 1917 by the Allied forces under the command of General George Allenby – on Hanukkah, by the way.


It's quite interesting, and you can read the rest: 12th-century rabbi predicted Israel’s future
edit on 20-11-2012 by UnifiedSerenity because: (no reason given)
edit on 21-11-2012 by UnifiedSerenity because: (no reason given)
edit on 21-11-2012 by UnifiedSerenity because: typo



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 11:45 PM
link   
There is an interesting article Is the name Palestine accurate which shows what I am referring to, but I will quote a small part :


The Philistines were not Middle Eastern or Arab. The Philistines are believed to be an Aegean people (from the Adriatic sea near Greece.) who, in the 12th Century BC, settled along the Mediterranean coast of what is called the Gaza Strip.

The Moslem/ Arabs in that area started calling themselves “Palestinians” nearly 40 years ago. “Palestinian” refers to people who live in Palestine: Arabs (“Arabic speaking peoples”), Bedouins, Druze, Christians, and Jews. No people or nation ever ruled as a sovereign national entity on this land there is no Palestinian language or culture in past history.Palestine, as a country does not presently exist. No Arab nation has their historical roots on the land and no one have claim to this territory other than the Jews.

After the second Jewish revolt under Bar Cochba (A.D. 132-135) it is said the Roman emperor Hadrian renamed the land of Israel and Judea as Palastina ('Palestine') after the ancient enemies of the Jews - the Philistines. Because of his hatred of the Jews, it was meant to be an insult to dishonor them and remove their history. Hadrian built Aelia Capitolina, in the area of the destroyed Temple and dedicated it to Jupiter-Zeus demonstrating the supremacy of the Roman deities in Judea. He then forbid the Jews from entering.

The land kept this name until 1948 when the British Government gave up its mandate to partition Palestine between the Jews and the Arabs. The majority of the land was given to the Arabs. However, the Arabs refused this offer as they wanted ALL of the land and attacked Israel. Today Palestine is used like it was from its inception-as an anti Jewish term.

The name Palestine was adopted by the Moslem residents of the Holy Land and used for their advantage. “Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel... “ (Zuheir Muhsin, late Military Department head of the PLO and member of its Executive Council, Dutch daily Trouw, March 1977).
edit on 20-11-2012 by UnifiedSerenity because: explained who philistines were
edit on 20-11-2012 by UnifiedSerenity because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 12:46 AM
link   

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by imagineering
I am native american, and I see nothing I can agree with in your post. Life has been great for me and my family. From what I have seen, life is what you make it and there really is no comparison with the two groups. The U.S. is not bombing nor oppressing native americans or vise versa. I can live where I want, we all can. I can work where I want and I go where I want. I see zero correlation.


Thats bs too, you can only speak for yourself personally. No one can speak for entire culture or race, impossible.

Maybe some natives felt oppressed, which is provable, while others didnt feel oppressed, which is also provable.


I always love when people try to speak on the view point of an ethnic group that they arent a part of, Then when then a person who is actually is a part of this group comes in and says their statement is false they are all "AH WHAT DO YOU KNOW!!?"


while hes not a spokesman for natives everywhere his opinion carries more weight than others here given his background.
edit on 21-11-2012 by paganini because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 03:11 AM
link   

Originally posted by Sissel

None of them are forced to be there. I know for a fact. Many live and work outside of the rez, and earn decent incomes, and still do not pay federal or state income taxes, which is fine by me.


No we are not forced to be here. Yes many do live and work outside of the rez and earn decent incomes. No we are not free from paying taxes. We pay federal income taxes but we do not pay state income taxes.



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 03:44 AM
link   

Originally posted by aniapi

Originally posted by Sissel

None of them are forced to be there. I know for a fact. Many live and work outside of the rez, and earn decent incomes, and still do not pay federal or state income taxes, which is fine by me.


No we are not forced to be here. Yes many do live and work outside of the rez and earn decent incomes. No we are not free from paying taxes. We pay federal income taxes but we do not pay state income taxes.



Thanks for that information.. I worked one place with five Natives and come tax time, they would all write, YOU OWE ME, on their federal returns, and never paid a dime, even if the form said they owed something. None of them ever got audited, or even a letter back from the IRS. So I could be wrong about the federal taxes, but these people never paid a dime. They also did not have anything withheld from their paychecks.



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 06:36 AM
link   

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity

Originally posted by Logarock

Translated in english as Palestina, Philistia, Palestine.

It is used in biblical and other literature to mean all of historic Israel and.....important here.... in certain context all the nations of that area to include Israel, Juda, and their relations Amon, Edom and Moab. The people know today as "Palestinians" today are certainly of the last three nations which are of very old related to the Israelities.


I think your history of how the region became known as Palestine is flawed. The Romans called it that as an insult the the Jews who called the land Israel. The Arabs in the region do not refer to themselves as Philistines at all. Prior to 1967 no one ever spoke of the Arabs living in Israel as Palestinians as if they were some separate people from the Arabs in Jordan, Syria or Lebanon. Most Jordanians are from said Arab groups and are not Hashemites who are the Royal Jordanian family who guarded the holy sites like Mecca.

The Arabs in Israel only started to call themselves Palestinians to try to make themselves appear to have a more legitimate claim to that land than the Jews. That whole region was called Palestine, thus all the Jews, Christians, and Arabs there are Palestinian.




Thats is what I just said....the whole region was called Palestine. I did not say anything about "Philistines"...look closely...Try reading a little better. And no the Romans didnt try insulting anyone by calling it Palestine. It was called Palestine, in an old form, before the Romans ever came along.

Several of the Jewish prophets used the word to mean all the tribes in that area to include some that were not Israeli.....in B.C. script. Dont post modern jewish thinkers if you dont even know what the very old ones said about the land.

Pel-e-sheth..... the land of strangers and wonderers..say it real slow. A word used in B.C. From the word Pa-lesh.

Pel-e-shet....Pal-e-stine....real slow. It may help if you understood how words evolve. Its called a cognate...Pel-e-shet to Palestine.

Etymology
edit on 21-11-2012 by Logarock because: n



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 08:35 AM
link   
There is no Palistinian 'Homeland', that's the major error in your illustration...

www.google.com...://www.contenderministries.org/articles/israelhistory.php&rct=j&sa=U&ei=L-SsUIrmOon-8ATr_ICoDA&ved=0CBUQFjAA&q=pales tine%27s+historic+homeland&usg=AFQjCNHiUpHp4yy0eXq51mvFWe-yKcumpw


So...
This will be argued forever, but knowing history might be beneficial in coming to a conclusion..... just maybe. ISRAEL has been attacked constantly, they only respond, not initiate hostilities, big diff..... So it's not at all like Indian Affairs really.



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 08:36 AM
link   

Originally posted by Plotus
There is no Palistinian 'Homeland', that's the major error in your illustration...

look up the 'British Accord circa 1922....


So...
This will be argued forever, but knowing history might be beneficial in coming to a conclusion..... just maybe. ISRAEL has been attacked constantly, they only respond, not initiate hostilities, big diff..... So it's not at all like Indian Affairs really.



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 08:41 AM
link   
reply to post by Malcher
 


For the love of god, get your head out of your ass!

"The Left" did no such thing of the sort. I'm so sick and tired of these idiotic #ing generalizations on ATS!



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 08:42 AM
link   
reply to post by paganini
 


I'm also NA and I think most people in this thread are full of hooey and have no right commenting on something that doesn't affect them personally.

Your pity is unwanted.
edit on 21-11-2012 by VaterOrlaag because: (no reason given)
edit on 21-11-2012 by VaterOrlaag because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 08:45 AM
link   
reply to post by mamabeth
 


News Flash: It's a goddamn book!

You keep standing up for Israel as they continue their ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians.

Such upright citizens on here.



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 09:19 AM
link   
reply to post by Logarock
 



In fact Josephus (100 a.d) called it Palastine in greek. and even the greek word is born out of the very old name of the area...Pe-le-sheth (hebrew b.c.) meaning a land of strangers and wonderers....said to be from the word pa-lash or pa-lesh meaning to roll i.e. in dust to morn.

Translated in english as Palestina, Philistia, Palestine.

It is used in biblical and other literature to mean all of historic Israel and.....important here.... in certain context all the nations of that area to include Israel, Juda, and their relations Amon, Edom and Moab. The people know today as "Palestinians" today are certainly of the last three nations which are of very old related to the Israelities.


There is no doubt that Sephardic Jews lived in Palestine historically, although I don't know that I'd take Josephus' word for anything after the business in the cave. My historical knowledge is shaky here, but as far as I know the Jews of Palestine never named Judea or any other part of Palestine "Israel", they were merely inhabitants there, wanderers, like many other tribes of people.

So the big question is, if Jews had such an interest in making their cherished homeland theirs alone why, long before the first and second world wars, were they so firmly enscounced all over Europe instead of keeping the home fires burning in Judea?

The obvious answer to that question is that European Jews were only Jewish by dint of their conversion to that religion in the 700s AD, not through any blood ties to the Jews of Palestine or physical connection to that land. Can anyone claim that the rank and file European Jews had ever even set foot in Palestine much less lived there for generations? These are the Ashkanazi Jews, with the Jewish religion but a completely different ancestry.

Its as if a thousand years from now African Americans declared the state of Virginia as their homeland and claimed the whole country as their own ~ and for many it actually is their homeland, but not as an independent country separate from the other inhabitants.

But hey, when you think of it, that's exactly what Europeans did with the land of the Indian tribes of Turtle Island, claimed it and renamed it and locked up the original owners so who knows, it could happen.





new topics

top topics


active topics

 
27
<< 2  3  4    6 >>

log in

join