If there were no spiritual consequences

Imagine that there is no God, no Galactic Federation, no High Council, no Karma, no Reincarnation and ultimately no spiritual consequences for your beliefs/thoughts/actions in this physical world. Everything you do or have done to you remains confined to this physical plane. There is no Heaven or Hell, purgatory, cycles, rebirth or Nirvana etc.

Keeping this in mind, please take an honest look within and answer the following questions:

1) Would your attitude towards life change?
2) Would your attitude towards other people change?
3) Would you take part in more selfish behaviours?
4) Would you take part in fewer altruistic behaviours?
5) Would you fell more liberated or shackled than you currently do?

* * * * *

ETA: I didn't intend for this to be a "would the world be more lawless, immoral and materialistic without religion" thread. One can still be spiritual and disbelieve in a Deity. One can still be a good person without the fear of consequences of being a bad person.

It would be like playing a computer game I guess. Nothing mattering.... wow, what a wonderfully calming thought!

I was born knowing this isn't really the way it is tho..

Nope I would stay true to myself and just be a decent person (like now )
Hope and luck? luck is random anyhow and we all hope for things.
Maybe we would be better off knowing there isn't anything after death cos we wouldn't waste the time we have.

Edit: On reflection I have removed this post as I don't want to influence other people's answers to the OP.

It obvious. Those that only behave decently because of religion, would probably go mental; killing, stealing and being altogether a**holes. [Not that some religions stop you from doing that anyway]

Those that have lived decently without any religion would just continue as they have. I love animals, am very polite, have a great sense of justice and honour nature around me. Hey and guess what, I am what believers call an Atheist.

Shows you really who is intrinsically ''good' and who isn't.

No , I don't think I'd change a great deal. I assume you still have to face the wrath from people in your life, loved ones etc. Treat people how you wish to be treated and so on.

Gods, karma and the others are not my greatest fear in life anyway. It's how I'm preceived by my loved ones. I do like to beleive in luck & hope, it's got me through a few tough times wishing on a star. So I may keep these 2.


Eta: great you've change no. 5, my post looks like a fail now with out the 'luck & hope' option
Thumbs up to luck & hope anyway, I am keeping them still.

People who need their religion to keep their baser selves in check honestly frighten me.

I sincerely hope you never lose your faith.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


If the only thing stopping you from being an asshole is a belief in the supernatural, that is a poor reflection of your character in my opinion. The idea that someone can't live a happy and contented life and be a good person without some supernatural crutch is just a whole lot of nonsense.

Thanks for sharing your thought experiment~

Though even if no external force lay judgement upon us - we still always have to answer to ourselves internally - because beyond the programmed belief, we know and feel what is worthy for another, because we know and feel deserving of the same.

Another way of putting it is "do unto others"....because healthy feelings and thoughts arise happiness and we intuitively know and feel what is right for ourselves and others as connected beings simply based on the space we share - Earth!

∞LOVE
mayallsoulsbefree∞

The only problem I have with this analogy is that we have to keep on existing on some level being we are energy and cannot just seize to exist. We can change, morph, etc, but you cannot disappear entirely from what I understand.

So going with this premise, I would conclude that the essence of my retention of the human experiences would remain on a subatomic level which would then meld with others. What or who is orchestrating this process to extract the “experience”? Could we be the “aliens” coming in human bodies to experience a physical dimension? My ego would hope so if this is the case.

Taking the above into consideration, I’ll answer No to questions 1 through 4.

Question 5 would be a Yes. I could reason that if Karma and/or God is out of the equation than all that happens would be a random outcome. I would liken it to us being stuck in a game of The Simms. The question remains, are we on story mode or free play?

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
Imagine that there is no God, no Galactic Federation, no High Council, no Karma, no Reincarnation and ultimately no spiritual consequences for your beliefs/thoughts/actions in this physical world. Everything you do or have done to you remains confined to this physical plane. There is no Heaven or Hell, purgatory, cycles, rebirth or Nirvana etc.

Keeping this in mind, please take an honest look within and answer the following questions:

1) Would your attitude towards life change?
2) Would your attitude towards other people change?
3) Would you take part in more selfish behaviours?
4) Would you take part in fewer altruistic behaviours?
5) Would you fell more liberated or shackled than you currently do?

* * * * *

ETA: I didn't intend for this to be a "would the world be more lawless, immoral and materialistic without religion" thread. One can still be spiritual and disbelieve in a Deity. One can still be a good person without the fear of consequences of being a bad person.

edit on 19/11/2012 by Dark Ghost because: (no reason given)

1-5. No.

Lol. Kind of sucks to already have this mindset.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


If that were true then we wouldn't need ATS at all. There would be nothing out there anywhere. Life would be so boring. Why even get out of bed? Like seriously. People who believe that kind of thing can't think outside the box, and really they have nothing to live for.

Even without a system of beliefs, there are consequences. The laws of physics cannot be suspended, here anyway. Most of us have an innate sense of right and wrong, what is it based on? As some posters have alluded, the reactions of others to our actions? Our own reactions to the actions of others? So a learned thing?

Personally I think we are born with it. Perhaps it is evolutionary and therefore genetic, some code in our brains to aid with social interactions and thus keep us alive.

Sociopaths and Psychopaths live in the world you describe and yet one would not call them liberated

Interesting questions to ponder.

I would be the same person.

Because i never factor a higher being into my daily life.

Everything i do would be my responsibility. I will not be forgiven(guilty conscience) for doing something that will make others suffer and i will live a miserable life the more bad things i would commit.

Taking out the part where you can be forgiven in a single prayer makers the person commit more crimes because he has a safety net.

Like someone mentioned, it is the people who believe god who need to be kept in check if we found out there is no god.... because that's the only thing that's holding them(not all) back....committing crimes.

In an apocalypse world, the Atheists/Agnostics/Agnostic Atheists, are the protectors.

reply to post by luciddream

Keep in mind that some atheists have done/do horrible things and have no sense of morality. I don't think it's faith or lack of that determines morality, it's the individual's personality.

Anyways, as for OP's questions. I don't know if I can really answer them properly because I'm kind of different when it comes to 'faith'. I don't deny the possibility that there may be some supernatural force or intelligence out there that brought everything into existence. It might be true. But if it is true, I don't care about it, and I don't care about my reason for being here if there is one. I'm not going to be subservient to something when I didn't even ask to be here in the first place. I don't owe it a thing. My answers probably don't matter, but I'll answer anyways.

1) Yes and no, it would confirm that all existence is indeed pointless, and that would change my mindset somewhat, but I'd be the same as I was before in some ways because as I said, I don't care even if there is a "spiritual path."

2) No, just because life is pointless and ultimately meaningless doesn't mean that we should take it out on other people.

3) I don't know what this implies exactly. Indulgence? I already indulge in a fair amount of things without worrying about consequences, so no, I wouldn't be doing these things more. But I wouldn't be doing them any less either

4) No. I always help people if I can just because I don't want to see anybody suffer.

5) I don't feel shackled now because I don't fear consequences. So neither. I would remain the same.

I'm a fairly decent person. I never harm animals or people. I'm always friendly and give everybody the benefit of the doubt upon meeting somebody new. I will help people if I can and won't expect anything in return. I guess my only downfall is my sense of humor. I tend to make (and laugh at other people's) jokes when major catastrophes happen. I guess maybe it's just easier to deal with things that way. Laughter is the best medicine

reply to post by Dark Ghost


I would and never felt more free by eliminating the promises of other men.

reply to post by Xaphan

Keep in mind that some atheists have done/do horrible things and have no sense of morality. I don't think it's faith or lack of that determines morality, it's the individual's personality.

You are contradicting to yourself.... your first sentences does not make sense and i agree 100% with the 2nd sentence.

You say Atheists have done horrible things in the past? is it because they were Atheists? or because some lunatic ALSO happened to be an atheist. i seen many use Stalin and Pol as example, which is not 100% true because they were primarily motivated by political issue, they used religion as a way to convince others.

Unlike religion, where everyone follow the same rules, there is no "same rule" for atheist to follow and wage war on others.

Atheists = have no belief, neutral......so you could have billion and trillion possible "atheists" each with different personalities, but you can't link all of their crime to Atheism as a sole source. Unlike other religions where they have a doctrine that all follow.

Its like me telling you that Hitler killed people because he was a vegetarian.... and therefore all vegetarian as bad...in truth.. Vegetarians and Hitler have no common except the fact that they are vegetarians... his hatred might be due to him hating meat eaters but it was mainly political and racial.

This emerges from the fact, religious believe that "if you do not believe, you are not of good nature" which leads to people thinking everything an Atheist do will result from their religious teaching (in this case, he has none, thus he is a bad person).

Since I already don't believe in any of those things it wouldn't affect me at all.

Notional spiritual consequences of actions are irrelevant, its actual consequences on other peoples well being in the here and now that count.

Empathy with others is all thats needed to make good decisions. If you don't have that you're broken and no amount of religious books will make you well.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


Easy answer. No to all five. Why? Because these choices are based on who I am, not any of the parameters in your thought experiment.

Have a nice day.

Originally posted by luciddream
You are contradicting to yourself.... your first sentences does not make sense and i agree 100% with the 2nd sentence.

You say Atheists have done horrible things in the past? is it because they were Atheists? or because some lunatic ALSO happened to be an atheist. i seen many use Stalin and Pol as example, which is not 100% true because they were primarily motivated by political issue, they used religion as a way to convince others.

Here's my point, you said:

Originally posted by luciddream
In an apocalypse world, the Atheists/Agnostics/Agnostic Atheists, are the protectors.

You're saying that they would be the protectors because of their lack of faith. My point was that not all of them would be. You're putting emphasis on saying that the Atheists would be the ones helping the situation, and as you put it, is that because they were Atheists? Or because these protectors just happened to be Atheists? I'm sure some religious people would be trying to help the situation too. At the end of the day personality dictates behavior, not religion or lack of.

TL;DR - Both Atheists and religious people have the potential to do bad things. Saying that Atheists would behave solely on the fact that they are Atheists is kind of a logical fallacy.

(I have no intention of starting an argument or turning the thread into a sh*tstorm by the way.)