NEWS: Castro breaks knee, arm in fall

Originally posted by khruschev
Ok, you say Fidel Castro brought poverty, and dictarship to his own people, but American government and their presidents, have brought poverty and dictorship to many other countries... USA has invaded Afganistan, but I still don't see Osama ben Laden caught, but I do see everyday civillian casualties. In Iraq, I don't see any WMD found but I do see oil being exported to the USA, and I do see people die everyday, and I do see that there is no peace, no law, and no order... Same goes for Kosovo and Metohija province in Yugoslavia (now called Serbia and Montenegro)... Albanian terrorist forces (KLA) have been fully backed by the US Army, Yugoslavia was bombed, many civillians died,...........

That tells enough on American democracy... At the same time, we do have poor, and unhappy people in Cuba, but still peace, law and order are maintained...

First off....the US did not invade Afghanistan to stay over there like Russia did back from 1978-1988....until with the help of the US, China and Saudi Arabia, the Russian forces were defeated... in that war the Russians killed over 1 million Afghans, and 5 million became refugees in other countries, while 15,000 Russian soldiers died and 37,000 were wounded... in this conflict, it was the Russians who killed all the Afghans, because the Afghans were united, forgetting their differences, to fight against the Russians....

Second, it is a known fact that it has been the policy of almost every country in the world to use "the enemy of my enemy as my friend" if they had to fight a "common" enemy. This fact remains true even today, so you will see double crossings and countries using others to fight against their enemies and then even being betrayed by those which were supposedly allies.

(Added comment)---------------In the case of the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden, this is exactly what they did, together with other groups who decided to fight the west after their war with the U.S.S.R. ended, Osama expressed this in an interview back in 1995 or 1997...hat he was already thinking on attacking the west, including the US, back when we were helping him get rid of the Russian invasion...

Third, in the peaceful process that Clinton wanted for Iraq in the 90s, and with the agreement and help of the UN, there were sanctions on Iraq which killed over 500,000 Iraqi children under the age of 5....and that was supposedly through a peaceful process....

Fourth, this time around radical Muslims are killing as many or more of their own people than the coallition is doing...yes there are many casualties from Muslim moderates and coalition forces because of the insurgents, but it is also true that coalition fire have killed civilians by mistake.

Fifth, they just had the first free elections ever conducted in Afghanistan......

Sixth, the Taliban does not control Afghanistan anymore, and althou we haven't captured Osama yet, he is on the run and we have captured many of his high ranking officers, and we stopped Iraq from providing safe heaven and a training place to Al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations.

About the WMD issue, i expect we will find more about the oil-for-food scandal and wmd, as i discovered and gave evidence in another post that the UNMOVIC commission, which said that Saddam did not have wmd althou he did have banned weapons and documents for every wmd program, was being paid off directly from the oil-for-food program.

I do expect more will come forward about this, and I am sure the wmd issue has not ended yet.

Also...if it was oil all we cared for, it would have been cheaper and more profitable if we would have just kept buying oil from Iraq like we did before the war....

Kosovo was a different matter...it was Clinton who decided to send troops over there, a democratic president who went with no allies and with no true reason to go there and use the US military to help the U.S.S.R....i mean Russian government..... It was also under the Clinton administration that we mistakenly... bombed the Chinese embassy which helped give Clinton a reason to ease "his" relations, and sell military secrets to China as well as diminish greatly the funding, and downsizing our military and intelligence branches allowing other military secrets to be stolen by Chinese spies in a level never seen before.

About Cuba....if you call peace, law and order that people over there go without food for weeks, and hundreds of thousands or more have died, and hundreds keep dying trying to leave the country by risking the Atlantic sea in home made boats...and they cannot really express in public their true opinion about the Cuban regime and Castro, unless they want to get jailed and dissapear, or harassed, fired from their jobs, and with no way to get another job if they speak against the government... is that a peaceful country to you? really?....



[edit on 21-10-2004 by Muaddib]

Muadibb, i respect your opinion, and I also want to remind you that JFK was the one (a democrat) who liberated the Cuban with the freedom flights into Miami, gave them shelter and every opportunity in the world to be free and enjoy the American dream.

This nation prospered under Clinton, but for his indiscretions, he was one of the best presidents we ever had.

I didnt see our country going to the dogs under these presidents and the US embracing communism.

You dont mind a president who lies, you dont mind a president who's every waking thought is to take away your freedoms. Your liberty is at stake. You dont mind the criminal acts, deaths, abuse, bla bla bla...
Ok. I respect that you have different beliefs...however, i happen to know that Cubans all call Kerry the Communist, thats his "nombrete"- (nick name)
Cubans nick name everything, and it might fly in south Florida, but the real world knows that being a
Democrat is not being a Communist. Anyway, Kerry will prevail and be our new president, i hope, we definately need a change for the better in this country, and we must be rid of Bush.

ps. I also left Cuba when i was 8, lived in Spain and in Florida among other places.

Originally posted by dgtempe
Muadibb, i respect your opinion, and I also want to remind you that JFK was the one (a democrat) who liberated the Cuban with the freedom flights into Miami, gave them shelter and every opportunity in the world to be free and enjoy the American dream.

This nation prospered under Clinton, but for his indiscretions, he was one of the best presidents we ever had.

I didnt see our country going to the dogs under these presidents and the US embracing communism.

You dont mind a president who lies, you dont mind a president who's every waking thought is to take away your freedoms. Your liberty is at stake. You dont mind the criminal acts, deaths, abuse, bla bla bla...
Ok. I respect that you have different beliefs...however, i happen to know that Cubans all call Kerry the Communist, thats his "nombrete"- (nick name)
Cubans nick name everything

, and it might fly in south Florida, but the real world knows that being a
Democrat is not being a Communist. Anyway, Kerry will prevail and be our new president, i hope, we definately need a change for the better in this country, and we must be rid of Bush.

ps. I also left Cuba when i was 8, lived in Spain and in Florida among other places.

First, there were many good things JFK did, and there were decisions he made that betrayed those he promised to aid...

The Bay of Pig invasion had been planned under the Eisenhower administration, yet it was Kennedy who decided that the invasion should continue. He had promised those Cubans that had gone to fight and free Cuba from the dictatorship of Fidel, with JFK's blessings, that the US would help them...yet he left them there to die and decided at the last minute, when the Cuban-American forces were already in Cuba that he would not send American forces to back up the Cuban dissidents.

Appart from that Kennedy fought against communist advances...it was after the 70s that the democrats began to steer their policies towards socialism/communism. Althou democrats are not trully socialists/communists, their policies are very much alike to the policies of socialist/communist countries, thus leaving a country such as the US more open for a dictatorship imo.

The nation did not prosper under Clinton, on the contrary, the last economic recession begun under Clinton's watch.

Summary: The great thing about economics, though, is that reality speaks louder than the words from the left. Sixty-two percent of the American public knows that the recession began under Clinton -- they were there and they experienced it. Now, with GDP growth running stronger than in any twelve-month period under Clinton, the American public knows that an expansion is well underway.

Excerpted from.
www.capmag.com...

Now, once more...as to whatever you are referring to as: "Bush lied"..... this has been discussed many times.... But do tell me....how did the president lie? and was he the first one or only one to "lie"?..... If you are referring to the wmd.....wasn't the world saying before the war that Saddam did have wmd? but there were countries that just wanted more sanctions....as in more oil-for-food programs?

As to my liberties, they are just fine, I can do now pretty much the same i was able to do under Clinton's administration....

If you are referring to the Patriot Act....once more...Kerry voted in favor of it...and as to the "draft issue"....it was brought up by 15 or 16 democrats and not one republican...

Here are links to the bills for the draft....

www.congress.gov...:SN00089:

www.congress.gov...:HR00163:

As to what Kerry stands for on this issue...let me quote directly from an archive that is from his own site...and I quote...

John Kerry believes that in these times, we need to bolster these efforts with a nationwide commitment to national service. Whether it is a Summer of Service for our teenagers, helping young people serve their country in return for college, or the Older Americans in Service program, John Kerry's plan will call on every American of every age and every background to serve. John Kerry will set a goal of one million Americans a year in national service within the next decade.
.............
As part of his 100 day plan to change America, John Kerry will propose a comprehensive service plan that includes requiring mandatory service for high school students and four years of college tuition in exchange for two years of national service.

Excerpted from.

web.archive.org...

This was taken quickly from the John kerry site, but it had been saved by those who saw his "100 day plan."

You can also find references to this in other sites such as the following.

The plan Kerry outlined today offers young Americans from all walks of life a chance to serve their country. His "Service for College" initiative will offer young people who agree to serve for two years in one of America's toughest and most important jobs four years of tuition at a public university in return. These young people will be able to serve as teachers, police officers, tutors, and in other key roles.
.........
KERRY OUTLINES RECORD EXPANSION IN NATIONAL SERVICE

500,000 in National Service Within Decade-National Call to Help Children Learn-Pays for Every Penny

America is built on simple principles: Everyone should have the same opportunity to get ahead, and everyone has a responsibility to give something back. The men and women who serve in our military take the greatest risks and make the ultimate sacrifices. John Kerry honors their service, and he also believes that Americans who are not in the military want to serve and ought to have opportunities to do so.

Since September 11, Americans have been searching for ways to contribute to our country. But President Bush has broken promise after promise to rally "armies of compassion," even causing cuts in AmeriCorps because of bureaucratic failures.

Today, John Kerry calls on all of America's young people to serve, especially meeting education challenges, and he outlines his agenda for domestic service. John Kerry would engage 500,000 more Americans in national service each year within a decade, compared to 75,000 in AmeriCorps this year. As part of his commitment to the fiscal responsibility this administration has recklessly abandoned, John Kerry will pay for every penny of his service initiatives with resources to spare. At the same time as he is making the hard choices required by the reckless Bush deficits, John Kerry is proposing the largest increase in domestic national service in our history.

Excerpted from.

releases.usnewswire.com...

You truly want to see a draft? Then vote Kerry.


Now, don't get me wrong, the US is not all well and dandy at this moment, we do have problems even under Bush, but imo with Kerry as president we will be much worse.



[edit on 21-10-2004 by Muaddib]

You can find also in the following link the dueling plans that Kerry and Clark have for the "new army of patriots" as well as a link to the original kerry page which had this info and dissapeared for some reason.... Let me quote part of the Kerry plan...

Enlists young people "to protect our nation from future terror attacks" via the expansion of Police Corps, an educational program that pays officers for their education in exchange for their work commitment after graduation.

Excerpted from.
www.utne.com...

Does that sound similar to another program of using the youth to protect from future terror attacks?


Now, I haven't found yet one policy of Bush in which I can see evidence that he plans to have a draft, and he has said it many times, it is not going to happen.


[edit on 21-10-2004 by Muaddib]

Muad, i read your link. It paints George as the best choice. Right wing propaganda. Sorry
Right, NOW George is going to do wonderful things for the country. Where's he been for the last 4 years?
Whats he done for this country? Protected us?

Any ways we both agree on Castro

Fidel Castro is a very intelligent person regardless of whether you think is is evil or not. Personally I think he is a better leader than either of the two morons looking to win the next term in the good-ol-USA.

Hey, did you know that we actually have more than two choices? So where are they? Oh, yeah... This is a democracy... I swear!

Originally posted by dgtempe
Muad, i read your link. It paints George as the best choice. Right wing propaganda. Sorry
Right, NOW George is going to do wonderful things for the country. Where's he been for the last 4 years?
Whats he done for this country? Protected us?

Any ways we both agree on Castro

DG...read the last link and the information about them...

Founded in 1984 by Eric Utne, UTNE MAGAZINE reprints the best articles from over 2,000 alternative media sources bringing you the latest ideas and trends emerging in our culture... Provocative writing from diverse perspectives... Insightful analysis of art and media... Down-to-earth news and resources you can use... In-depth coverage of compelling people and issues that affect your life... The best of the alternative media.

Excerpted from.
www.utne.com...

About U.S. Newswire


U.S. Newswire is a national news release wire service which provides a direct communications system between the world's leading public interest news sources and the news media that cover them.

Since 1986, organizations small and large - including The White House Press Office - have called on U.S. Newswire's unique resources to provide distribution of press releases and related materials to the news media and online services via USN's electronic wire service feed (the same newswire technology used by the Associated Press), as well as broadcast fax, e-mail, satellite and a broad range of Internet-based news delivery services.

Excerpted from.
www.usnewswire.com...

Let me see what other sources i can find about this...

Here is one on Clark's plan.

Democrat Wesley Clark says if elected president, he would create a corps of civilians who could be called up for service in national emergencies much like the National Guard.

Excerpted from.
www.cbsnews.com...

The following is a democratic site, just look at it DG.

In looking to the future at 2020, Senator Kerry says that "I want to create a seamless web of service where every American - young and old, rich and poor, of every race, religion, and background - can enlist in a new army of patriots who will serve on all the frontlines of our future - guarding our nation from danger abroad, strengthening our homeland security, reducing illiteracy, preserving our environment, providing after-school care, helping our seniors live in dignity, building new homes for those who need them - and in all of this, building a nation that is more truly one America."

Excerpted from.
www.2020democrats.org...


It is not right wing propaganda.

You better look well at the above links, before they suddenly dissapear.

Sorry for the double post... I just had to reply to this one...

the US did not invade Afghanistan to stay over there like Russia did back from 1978-1988....until with the help of the US, China and Saudi Arabia, the Russian forces were defeated...

You're right... We had to go over there to destroy a monster our tax dollars created. Who's money and weapons sponsored what become the Talaban? Your money did... And it still is... We can thank our elected officials for staying out of the "who's dick is bigger" game known as the Cold War. Oh, wait... I guess they didn't and it messed up the world... Oh well, at least we have control over the Opium trade.

This country is messed up... So many people walk around believing whatever they see on TV and never bother to look any deeper into the subject. Do some homework. Know your history. It is essentail for the survival of civilization... Otherwise we will all die from our own ignorance and arrogance.

Ok im having a weak moment. I dont like the link at all. Not at all.
I'll read it more carefully and post again tomorrow.
Im very open minded and i will check it out- Thanks

... he has said it many times, it is not going to happen.

A politician is what you can call yourself when you lie a lot but have a college degree. Kind of like an engineer... Someone that knows how to use duct tape for everything with a degree.

Originally posted by tacitblue

A politician is what you can call yourself when you lie a lot but have a college degree. Kind of like an engineer... Someone that knows how to use duct tape for everything with a degree.

Can you tell me how this helps at all in this topic?
Making a joke?

So, no comment on the link on what Kerry proposes for the "New American Patriots"?

And please, do not tell me to read up on history, althou I do make mistakes and I am not an all knowing person I have read and know enough about history to back up what I say.

I am not going to say that republicans are angels and have not made some "shadowy deals"... I believe most, if not all politicians, are somehow corrupted....unfortunately that's the truth about politics/politicians "all over the world."

If i saw one piece of evidence that I could corroborate that told me that Republicans have a plan like Kerry's to make a mandatory draft i would call Bush a liar. If it was only Bush the one to say before the war that Iraq had wmd and something must be done about it, including using force...I would say Bush is a liar.... But Bush was not the first, or only person/administration to bring forth this point of Saddam and evidence of wmd in Iraq....

As for your other points Tacit... First the US helped, with the help of two other countries, the Taliban to fight "communism".... This doesn't mean that the US owned the Taliban, or that the US government can tell them what to do..... It just means that back then the US "used" the Taliban and Osama, when they didn't show their extremist views about the west and what they wanted to do against the USA after finishing with the Russians.



[edit on 22-10-2004 by Muaddib]

Yeah, it is a joke... Haha.

My point is rational logic would have avoided the current situation we are in all together. Cuba is just one of many examples of how irrational US government policy is... And the people who make those policies. We would have no conflict if people were rational.

This post is about Castro and Cuba... Tell me... What rational justification is there to still be putting sanctions and political pressure on Cuba? There is no rational reason. It all boils down into an arguement worthy only of spoiled kids in Kindergarden. Cuba would never have turned out the way it has had the people in our government at the time Castro taken power not been so spoiled and whiney. So some wealthy capitalists got there money stolen. Big deal. They stole a lot more from the Cuban people... The revolution is testimate to that.

Our government is run by irrational people. Period. They are the reason empires rise and fall.

Education does not make you smart. You are born either smart or stupid... The current state of the world is evidence to me that the most dangerous type of person is someone who is educated yet stupid.

So, no comment on the link on what Kerry proposes for the "New American Patriots"?

No. No comment. Why? Doesn't it bother you just a little bit that it is precived that we only have two choices for president? I don't like Bush. I don't like Kerry. Both are idiots and, in my opinion, merely puppets jockeying for a pretend PR job known as the president. Can you really imagine either of them actually formulating some sort of progressive bill or legislation? Funny to read? Probably. But scary as hell at the same time. Its the collective group in power that can be very dangerous.


[edit on 22-10-2004 by tacitblue]

Originally posted by tacitblue
This post is about Castro and Cuba... Tell me... What rational justification is there to still be putting sanctions and political pressure on Cuba? There is no rational reason. It all boils down into an arguement worthy only of spoiled kids in Kindergarden. Cuba would never have turned out the way it has had the people in our government at the time Castro taken power not been so spoiled and whiney. So some wealthy capitalists got there money stolen. Big deal. They stole a lot more from the Cuban people... The revolution is testimate to that.

There are several reasons to put pressure on Castro, even with sanctions, with the amount of money that Castro has, he could still feed all the people in Cuba and he would still be rich....

Sanctions on Cuba are sanctions on "Fidel." Whether or not there were sanctions on Cuba, the country would be having the same problems as it is having now, and this was demonstrated by what happened right after the revolution, and what slowly began happening in Cuba before there were any sanctions.

Castro began, right after the revolution, to impose rations on the people, this was before the sanctions and continue today. A family gets a "libreta" which is a small notebook that has the amount of food, and other items that Cubans can only buy each month. You cannot exceed this unless you buy food at the black market, (well, not exactly a black market but a dollar market...almost the same, normally Cubans can't buy in these markets unless they go there with a family member that is a resident or a citizen of another country) and the "libreta" does not give enough food, or other items including toilet paper, for one person, much less for a family.

Castro exports, most of the food and other products that is grown and made in Cuba....people that gather the food, mostly all Cuban children from age 9(or 10)-17, can't even eat any of the products they gather, they are watched most of the time, althou i am sure some are able to steal some of this food, but this is not the case for every child in Cuba...

Castro is a communist, and believe it or not, a communist regime so close to the US is a threat that must be in check. Castro has in place ever since the beginning, anti-American propaganda, much like the Soviet Union had before the...collapse....and much like what they are having once more in Russia.

If Castro could, he would use anything to attack the US if he knew he would win, and this is a fact.

Castro has sent spies into the US and quite a few of them have been able to infiltrate government positions in the US, there were some cases a couple years ago or so of communist Cuban spies that were found to be working for the US and were caught/imprisoned. I do believe it is very possible that there are quite a few other spies in the US, and not just from Cuba.

Originally posted by tacitblue

Our government is run by irrational people. Period. They are the reason empires rise and fall.

Wrong....the reasons for empires rise and fall.... it is the natural cycle of everything that exists under the Sun and the Moon....

Not all empires or civilizations have ended because of internal strife.

Originally posted by tacitblue
Education does not make you smart. You are born either smart or stupid... The current state of the world is evidence to me that the most dangerous type of person is someone who is educated yet stupid.

If this is the way you try to make your point i can see how "smart "you are... resorting to insults is no way to prove your point....

Education makes you aware, and gives you knowledge of current, and past world issues.

If you think that education does nothing at all to improve the lives of people, then perhaps noone should go to college according to you.... People would be just as smart and as knowledgeable as anyone you can find in the streets with no education....

It is true that the "streets" do teach some valuable...surviving skills...if you plan on living on the streets all the time, and this might not be enough to be alive in the streets for a long time anyways....., but not all of it is good, or will you be able to better yourself, your family, and your life in society without any education at all....

Originally posted by tacitblue
No. No comment. Why? Doesn't it bother you just a little bit that it is precived that we only have two choices for president? I don't like Bush. I don't like Kerry. Both are idiots and, in my opinion, merely puppets jockeying for a pretend PR job known as the president.

US citizens have been selecting a president from two candidates for quite some time, althou it did not start this way and lately we have some other parties. It is lately that people are saying this is a reason not to vote because it doesn't matter who you vote for...

If that's what you think, that is just your opinion, and does not make you any smarter than the next person... whether he/she is educated or not.....



[edit on 22-10-2004 by Muaddib]

Did you hear Brittany Spears is pregnant?

Did you know those people on Oprah had to pay taxes on the free cars they received?

What about that guy who lives near you who won PowerBall?

Cripes, no offense all, but who cares? I seriously doubt their going to be waiving the American flag in Cuba after Castro is gone.
Personnally I find the people on this site ten times more interesting than Fidel or any other magazine cover.

Originally posted by saint4God
Did you hear Brittany Spears is pregnant?

Did you know those people on Oprah had to pay taxes on the free cars they received?

What about that guy who lives near you who won PowerBall?

Cripes, no offense all, but who cares? I seriously doubt their going to be waiving the American flag in Cuba after Castro is gone.
Personnally I find the people on this site ten times more interesting than Fidel or any other magazine cover.

This is a news forum, news are made public, and people can choose whether they want to read about them or not. The point is to make them available for others to read.

ATSNN is still a news forum.

Originally posted by tacitblue
Fidel Castro is a very intelligent person regardless of whether you think is is evil or not. Personally I think he is a better leader than either of the two morons looking to win the next term in the good-ol-USA.

Hey, did you know that we actually have more than two choices? So where are they? Oh, yeah... This is a democracy... I swear!

i did not see your response until now...you obviously have no idea what is happening in Cuba if you say Castro is better than Bush and Kerry...hell, I'll vote for Kerry before Castro...and so would Cubans if they had that choice...of course Bush would be better than Kerry..

BTW, I don't think Castro is evil..i know he is evil and so do most Cubans and Cuban-Americans....

Do not try to discuss about a topic you obviously have no knowledge about, if you do want to talk about it then research what is really hapening in Cuba, but research it by asking those millions of Cubans that have left the island. Ask them the reason for them leaving, many of them risking certain death drowning, or being eaten at the shark infested waters off Cuba....



[edit on 24-10-2004 by Muaddib]

Muaddib some great post in this topic. Its nice to get a real view from someone that knows first hand about Cuba.

Current regulations make travel to Cuba very hard for any US citizen. So really most people have know clue what its like unless they lived there before or have family there.