It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
I agree absolutely without any restrictions. It's cowardly, and treasonous to oneself.
it's dishonest to declare a belief to avoid an outcome of damnation, when disbelief is the person's reality. Certainly, God can tell the difference from a church goer who is hedging his bets against damnation to those who are sincerely seeking God.
I agree with you that it is a very unpleasant doctrine. But is it the sort of doctrine that makes Christianity inherently illogical and contradictory? I don't see that yet. It might very well put some people off; it might not be what the advertising pros would recommend to reach a larger audience. But in addition to God's mercy, His justice was not something the Church just invented, it was what they were told. By a fairly reputable Source, I might add.
So, in my opinion the fundamental flaw of Christianity is the doctrine that God sends disbelievers to hell, disregarding their sincere search for God in places other than the churches brand of dispensed wisdom.
There is a difference between rejecting the offer and never knowing it existed. But, you're absolutely right, it's probably the saddest thing there is. So why? Because God knows every soul is infinitely valuable. Was it Moses that made the deal with God "Lord, if there are 20 righteous men here will you spare the city? God says "Ok," Then Moses asks what if there are only 10? How about 5? I believe God thought the gain of a soul was so important (remember the shepherd with a hundred sheep who went to find the lost one?) that it was right to put the choice of death before Jesus.
It's mind boggling to think of how many Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, and others, are being deceived by Satan into rejecting this gift. So much heavenly work, Jesus did, for so few souls.
Well, when a CEO sits down with the Union head, the workers don't have any say in it. They iron out the deal as representatives, and the workers make up their own mind on it. Jesus was mankind's representative. Yes, God, but also a man who was tempted. He was born among us, drawing milk from Mary, lived among us, played with us, was our perfect representative. The deal was made, and we can vote to accept it or not. (By the way, I don't think Satan had anything to say about this deal.)
So even if we believe that Jesus' death was the price paid for a new covenant for all of mankind, not just Jews, the deal was struck between Jesus, God and Satan. We didn't have a say in it.
Noah's covenant was different because, if i remember correctly, it was one-sided. It's a little like the difference between telling a kid he can have $10 if he mows the lawn, and just telling him you'll give him $10 for his birthday. Why didn't God get a promise from Noah? I don't know.
When God promised Noah that he would never kill every living thing by water again, it wasn't dependent on anyone's belief. Why is this covenant different? How can Satan's deception or our ignorance be greater than the intentions and actions of God and Jesus combined?
Beautifully said. The important choice is yours. Many think God made a mistake when He gave us the ability to make life-changing choices, but He did. He gave us the respect to say, I won't control you even if it's for your own good. You're free to choose the path you like. You may or may not like the results, but I won't force you.
I didn't have a choice when I was born of who my parents were, or what color my skin would be, or what country I would be raised in. But this very important spiritual choice, upon which my fate for all eternity rests, is mine and only mine to make. Because God has to do something with me, one thing or the other, the choice is mine. Even though God and Jesus did this thing, this cosmic eternal miraculous thing, it means nothing unless I belief it.
You're right, Heaven and Hell are real, believe in it or not. God's in Heaven, Satan's in Hell. Through the course of one's life, people are asked every day, Do you love God, or do you love Satan? The question is never that blunt, but it's always being asked. It's not too surprising that, if one goes through life to the very end saying I don't love God, that one ends up making their home in Hell. God doesn't force. We are asked to choose one or the other. After we choose, we get what we choose, an eternity in the home we asked for.
In what universe does belief create reality? If Jesus' sacrifice was real and Satan and Heaven and Hell are real, then my belief or disbelief doesn't change that. But disbelief does guarantee me a seat in Hell, according to the Catholic Church.
One can only be succesful based on what the goal was. The goal wasn't to make sure that every Human went to Heaven, the goal was to break open the prosecutor's jail so that every human could go to heaven, if they wished.
So this is the problem. Either Jesus was successful or he wasn't. If I go Hell because I don't believe, then in my opinion, Jesus failed his mission. Can God fail?
May I dsagree a little? God's plan has succeeded whether anyone believes it. The question is whether anyone acts on the freedom the plan gave us. Will anyone walk out of the jail?
That's my problem, the fatal flaw of Christianity, IMHO, that God needs my positive belief for his plan to succeed.