Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by Kidfinger


So how many of the military/vets do you see voting for Kerry?

Well, under the circumstances, I would say that Kerry will get at least 40 % of the vet vote. There has just been to many lies passed around that are taken as the truth (from both sides). Alot of the vets are older and set in there ways. The older generation, once they are set on something, usually dont change thier mind about anything.

Edit:quotes not working right. sorry

[edit on 10/22/04 by Kidfinger]

Kerry has never said that he hates vets or military, that is a lie, and no body in this post can say also that vets are not supporting him.

Just like any other candidate he have opponents and supporters, so twisting worlds or views is not going to change the facts.

Of course they twist words.

My father is a vietnam vet, he is definately supportive of Kerry.

The Vietnam vets I know are solid for Kerry. They see the same shyte happening as back then and are disgusted. The WW2 guys I know pretty much support Bush. My one V.vet friend's old dad damn near spit fire he hated Kerry so bad. My brother (who's in the S.C. Guard) says they're all for Kerry b/c Bush lied about the WMD and has totally screwed the pooch in Iraq.

Originally posted by deeprivergal
Of course they twist words.

My father is a vietnam vet, he is definately supportive of Kerry.

That is a refreshing bit of news I know a few vietnam vets here in louisville, 4 actually, and out of those 4, only 1 supports John Kerry When I talk to them about this election, one of them actually told me he was to old and set in his ways to go changing his mind now. The other two that are for Bush said they believe the swift boat ads. Im glad some of them can see past the deciete

Here it is, Kerry stating that it is honorable for soldiers to die for the UN but not for the US alone.



There is a story today in the Washington Post by Helen Dewar and Thomas Ricks, the headline: Help of Allies Among Three Key Themes. I want you to listen to this quote from Kerry. This quote is actually from April 17th of 1994 on CNN's Late Edition. This is back when Frank Sesno hosted the program. This is the third paragraph of the story in the Washington Post today.

"Kerry's belief in working with allies runs so deep that he has maintained that the loss of American life can be better justified if it occurs in the course of a mission with international support. In 1994, discussing the possibility of U.S. troops being killed in Bosnia, he said, 'If you mean dying in the course of the United Nations effort, yes, it is worth that. If you mean dying American troops unilaterally going in with some false presumption that we can affect the outcome, the answer is unequivocally no.'"


This is only one of the reasons Kerry will only receive 25% of veterans votes.

I tell you this, here in the town I live is so Republican that you do not find a democrat place to get banners or stickers and the people that manage to get then and place then in their houses the banners were stolen over night not traces of been vandalized just disappeared.

Well last week the first democrat center was open due to an overwhelming demand and the person in charge was smiling from ear to ear in the news he said that the support is so great is not worlds to described it and that they cannot keep banners or other stuff in the offices due to the high demand and I starting to see more bumper stickers around before it was none, now we know that the area is highly Republican but is some improvement.

Also we are having one of the biggest turn around on voters’ registration in years.

Originally posted by Carseller4

"Kerry's belief in working with allies runs so deep that he has maintained that the loss of American life can be better justified if it occurs in the course of a mission with international support. In 1994, discussing the possibility of U.S. troops being killed in Bosnia, he said, 'If you mean dying in the course of the United Nations effort, yes, it is worth that. If you mean dying American troops unilaterally going in with some false presumption that we can affect the outcome, the answer is unequivocally no.'"


This is only one of the reasons Kerry will only receive 25% of veterans votes.

First off, give us a link. Second off, I dont think there is a mention of Honor any where in this paragraph. Also, you cant give a paragraph and say this is what the whole story is about. Thats called taking it out of context. This also worked agianst your original claim. It sounds to me like Kerry is saying its not worth sending our troops to die in international matters. If we are asked to do so, then it should be with other ally country troops. It should be a JOINT effort. Bushies are good for taking things out of context.

This is the bottom line...
1. Whether you think he deserves his medals, Kerry volunteered to serve in a combat zone. That is a pretty risky thing to do just to get some possible edge in the political realm.
2. By joining the Texas Air National Guard, Bush did his best to ensure that he wouldnt have to fight in Vietnam, and that is the best case scenario for him. Worst case is that he essentially went AWOL.
3. Nothing that Kerry testified about was a lie. We did commit attrocities in Vietnam. He never claimed that most soldiers did, just that it had happened. Sure, the NVA and Vietcong commited more, but America has higher standards. Even one war crime is to many for America.

I am continually amazed that Sen Kerry gets any support from Veterans after making statements such as these:

And so a New Soldier has returned to America, to a nation torn apart by the killing we were asked to do. But, unlike veterans of other wars and some of this one, the New Soldier does not accept the old myths. We will not quickly join those who march on Veteran's Day waving small flags, calling to memory those thousands who died for the "greater glory of the United States"." "We will not readily join the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars...." "We will not uphold traditions which decorously memorialize that which was base and grim"
- John Kerry

Originally posted by jrsdls
ECK, of course some Vietnam Vets support Kerry, all his friends from the VVAW are sure to support him, as well as Jane Fonda, can't forget the Viet Cong, he is in their hall of hero's. Even ABC went to Vietnam and found some more Vietnamese veterans who support Kerry. just as Ted Koppel.

First of all, can we let go of the Jane Fonda thing, already? It's so hateful and tasteless. Sorry - I know that whole thing really burns alotta people up. She became a born-again Christian and publicly apologized to the Vietnam Veterans she may have hurt. Do you believe in forgiveness? I hope so. We will all be judged according to the way we judge others. At least that's how the good book puts it.

They supported him, probably because he came home and blew the whistle. To Kerry's courage in the face of the establishment, I can only say BRAVO!

Originally posted by COOL HAND
I am continually amazed that Sen Kerry gets any support from Veterans after making statements such as these:


And so a New Soldier has returned to America, to a nation torn apart by the killing we were asked to do. But, unlike veterans of other wars and some of this one, the New Soldier does not accept the old myths. We will not quickly join those who march on Veteran's Day waving small flags, calling to memory those thousands who died for the "greater glory of the United States"." "We will not readily join the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars...." "We will not uphold traditions which decorously memorialize that which was base and grim"
- John Kerry

Put the kool aid down and you're head might clear up.

[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

Originally posted by Otts
Was Kerry a registered Democrat, or leaning Democrat when he appeared before the Senate in 1971 to denounce government policy in Vietnam?

I'm pretty sure he was a Democrat before he testified.

How far back in time did Kerry's accusations go?

He didn't necessarily support the war when he went; but he refrained from criticizing it until he came home and was asked to testify.

I don't know if the Democratic party was as divided on the war in 1971 as it was in 1968, but if it was, it would mean that Kerry went up against some people in his own party who had defended the war in Vietnam - powerful people like Johnson, Hubert Humphrey, Robert McNamara, etc.

If that's so, it sounds pretty gutsy to me.

It was probably even more divided. Kerry went up against the establishment. That's an act of courage. Telling the truth usually is.

According to what I've heard, Kerry didn't speak out against the war until he was discharged from the Navy.

Originally posted by Carseller4
Here it is, Kerry stating that it is honorable for soldiers to die for the UN but not for the US alone.



There is a story today in the Washington Post by Helen Dewar and Thomas Ricks, the headline: Help of Allies Among Three Key Themes. I want you to listen to this quote from Kerry. This quote is actually from April 17th of 1994 on CNN's Late Edition. This is back when Frank Sesno hosted the program. This is the third paragraph of the story in the Washington Post today.

"Kerry's belief in working with allies runs so deep that he has maintained that the loss of American life can be better justified if it occurs in the course of a mission with international support. In 1994, discussing the possibility of U.S. troops being killed in Bosnia, he said, 'If you mean dying in the course of the United Nations effort, yes, it is worth that. If you mean dying American troops unilaterally going in with some false presumption that we can affect the outcome, the answer is unequivocally no.'"

When you say someone said something, you should provide a quote from them and a link. This is NOT a quote of what John Kerry said. Do you understand that? Also, you can twist Kerry's words all you want. Those of us who understand the breadth and context of his statements are unaffected by amateurish, sleezeball tactics. Thanks anyway, tho.

ECK,

Isnt it funny that some Bush supporters like to quote John Kerry's history?
Isnt it ironic though that when a Kerry supporter tries to quote from Bushes past misdeeds(First million from the BinLadens) they accuse us of lying, or being qa Micheal moore fanatic, or whatever just to change the subject back to Kerry's past? I love how Irony and Comedy seem to ebb and flow together

Originally posted by Kidfinger
ECK,

Isnt it funny that some Bush supporters like to quote John Kerry's history?
Isnt it ironic though that when a Kerry supporter tries to quote from Bushes past misdeeds(First million from the BinLadens) they accuse us of lying, or being qa Micheal moore fanatic, or whatever just to change the subject back to Kerry's past? I love how Irony and Comedy seem to ebb and flow together

You know it, man!

I also find it ironic that when presented with my above statements, the argument over the past mistakes disappear Well, IMO, I guess Bush supporters know who really has the worst record of past achievments, otherwise there would have been a flood of nanananananana, instead of logoffs

Yep. They barely show their faces round these threads anymore. That's what happens when one tries to defend the indefensible.

[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

I myself being a vet will also be supporting Kerry. I have also talked with some Vietnam vets I know and they have said the exact same things that there were atrocities commited by American troops. One of them even had a Viet-cong's ear in a jar to prove it. We know that bad things happen in war, thats just the way it is. We may not like it ,but it happens. John Kerry was telling the truth and thats what counts and he had the ba....s to do it. GW Bush didn't even have the ba...s to fight for his country. Thats why he joined the guard and with a little help from his daddy's friends he got out of going over. I also wanna state that our guys in Vietnam did exactly the same things to the Viet-cong that they were doing to our guys. The Viet-cong just did more of it from what my Vietnam friends told me. Again what they did was wrong , but war makes people do crazy things.