What the next 4 years are going to look like

reply to post by Thepump


And the condescension continues I am a slave to no one considering those evil rich are paying the majority of taxation for the majority, and always the first targets how are they not slaves?

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Thepump

 

Funny thing is

Millions of Americans who came before the " I want it all,I want it now, and they don't give a crap how crowd" came along.

Put themselves through school(like I did) bought their own home(like I did) they also reared a child and then went right back to work.

What makes people of today think they are just so damn better than our ancestors?

Yeah I agree there are some "small people" around here.

edit on 19-11-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

Actually if you've ever picked up a true history book outside of indoctrinated high school you would understand that in exception for the very select few, before the civil war, only the wealthy ever went to school, or "owned" anything. There were two "classes" before the civil war, upper class and lower class. It was like winning the lottery today that someone who was born into the lower class ever got the chance to "work their way up." There was no ladder... if you weren't born wealthy you would likely never be anything but poor and that was just how it was and there wasn't a whole hell of a lot you could do about it. Most small time farmers ( most of them) didn't even "own" their farm.

Know anything at all about the industrial revolution? It was a new kind of slavery. An entire family ( including children ) would often have to work in terrible conditions just to make the rich richer while they still hardly had enough to "get by." EVERYONE except thieves or the rich had to work 14 - 18 hours a day/ 6 days a week on average and usually only got part of Sunday off for church so they could go be indoctrinated.

I understand that for whatever reason there are some of us who would love nothing more than to go back to such a system for whatever reason but I simply lack the ability to grasp any kind of an understanding as to why. I mean I assume it's because they already have more than the "average" person and think that it would be fine and dandy for them. But what many of them fail to realize is that this is an entirely different time, many of us do not fear "God" enough to obey every last demand that comes from those with more than us and would fight before accepting a lifetime of slavery. I am not alone in the massive amount of people who would die fighting not to become more of a slave than I already am.

I am on to you. The changes that you desire are changes that you believe would be a shift in power from the government to the wealthy. It would be no different for those with nothing but much different for those with everything. However, the problem now is that the wealthy already has too much power and controls the government. Most of us understand that it would only get much worse if we allowed them undeniable and out in the open control. You might think that wouldn't be so for them, only for the lower class but that's where you would be wrong.

If what you claim to desire ever comes to fruition then it will be a sad day for us all but I believe that the wealthy will be hit the hardest because people now are not people in the 1800s, society has evolved and we would not stand for the things that our great grandparents would have. Those with nothing to lose and much to gain would come after those with much to lose and little to gain and the wealthy would not be able to fight them all off, they might last a day, maybe a week, perhaps a month if they happen to be incredibly lucky, but eventually the masses would kill them in attempt to take their stuff. Such a time would be much more dangerous for those "with" than for those "without."

reply to post by Jerk_Idiot


If you were to familiarize yourself with my posting history you'd see that I have stated, time and time again, most of the things you have discussed.

I am staunchly against lobbying and lobbyists.
I am staunchly against tax loopholes that favor corporations and the wealthy.
I am staunchly FOR term limits and ethics reform in our representatives.

While I have no personal opinion about arresting and convicting current or former high profile politicians - as, IMO, it would be pointless and nothing more than a witch hunt - since they all operate within the current "law" ( or lack thereof ) - I do believe that the details of their wrongdoings should be chiseled into the stone of history and laid bare for all to see.

As for assertions that I come across as a "disinfo agent". Well, that is what it is. We are all people communicating in a medium where such evils do exist and I take no offense in my motives being questioned. As should everyone elses and at all times. I personally rely upon my posting history and continued advocacy for the marginalized to demonstrate that, even if I have an agenda, it serves the many and not the few.

~Heff

reply to post by Thepump


What does it take to get it across to you people? The problem is not the social programs. We can deal with those who abuse them later. They are not the real problem. It is not the taxes. We have enough taxes enough to pay for everything we need. The problem is the corruption. The bridges to nowhere. These are caused by the immunity that was given to those in power. So long as they have immunity it does not matter how much in taxes we pay. It does not matter what social programs we have we will never be able to pay for them. Not until we stop what is going on by eliminating the immunity give to public officials. And if you really want to change things you have to get rid of the government burecrats that are NOT voted in but everyone goes to. The ones that ACTUALLY writes the laws that our congressmen do not read.

reply to post by Anundeniabletruth


Actually for those who ever picked up a history book would know a college degree was not needed or government assistance was needed to be successful in this country.

There is that infamous Superiority complex striking again,

reply to post by Hefficide


Nobody reads Heff they just run with whatever floats their boats.

Originally posted by Jerk_Idiot
reply to post by Thepump

 

What does it take to get it across to you people? The problem is not the social programs. We can deal with those who abuse them later. They are not the real problem. It is not the taxes. We have enough taxes enough to pay for everything we need. The problem is the corruption. The bridges to nowhere. These are caused by the immunity that was given to those in power. So long as they have immunity it does not matter how much in taxes we pay. It does not matter what social programs we have we will never be able to pay for them. Not until we stop what is going on by eliminating the immunity give to public officials. And if you really want to change things you have to get rid of the government burecrats that are NOT voted in but everyone goes to. The ones that ACTUALLY writes the laws that our congressmen do not read.

You are talking about congressional staffers?

I think I agree with a good deal of this.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Anundeniabletruth

 

Actually for those who ever picked up a history book would know a college degree was not needed or government assistance was needed to be successful in this country.

Water is wet

Fire is hot

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by Jerk_Idiot

 

If you were to familiarize yourself with my posting history you'd see that I have stated, time and time again, most of the things you have discussed.

I am staunchly against lobbying and lobbyists.
I am staunchly against tax loopholes that favor corporations and the wealthy.
I am staunchly FOR term limits and ethics reform in our representatives.

While I have no personal opinion about arresting and convicting current or former high profile politicians - as, IMO, it would be pointless and nothing more than a witch hunt - since they all operate within the current "law" ( or lack thereof ) - I do believe that the details of their wrongdoings should be chiseled into the stone of history and laid bare for all to see.

As for assertions that I come across as a "disinfo agent". Well, that is what it is. We are all people communicating in a medium where such evils do exist and I take no offense in my motives being questioned. As should everyone elses and at all times. I personally rely upon my posting history and continued advocacy for the marginalized to demonstrate that, even if I have an agenda, it serves the many and not the few.

~Heff

I can attest to this on your behalf.

An agenda benefiting the few would be the OP, not Heff

just eat these, they will make you feel better

Originally posted by Razimus

just eat these, they will make you feel better

Are those communist muslim colors?

reply to post by neo96


"There is that infamous Superiority complex striking again,"

Not at all my friend. I am superior to no one. And I am very aware of the fact that one did not have to obtain an "education" in order to be successful in the first 2/3 of the 1900s. As a matter of fact, as far as "education" is concerned, I wish it were still possible for a young person such as myself to be able to "apprentice" and work his/her way up the ladder. However, in society today such is simply not the case. One either goes to "college" or trade school or one is practically never permitted the opportunity to begin training at any "skilled" practice.

I am an engineering student and I can confirm for you that it is simply not possible for one to land an entry level position in my field without that piece of paper. I tried for 5 years after high school before starting college. Care to guess what every single company that I tried to work for told me?

"We're sorry but if you want to do that you have to have a degree in engineering, we may consider someone with a math or physics degree but we can't hire someone without a college education."

Paraphrasing for the average answer from everyone.

Personally, I do not approve of that system. But it is not our government who requires them to demand the college education and any company can choose to hire any legal citizen if they so wish. So, at the very minimum, at least some of that blame does fall on the businesses. They could change that part of how the system works if they wanted to. I find it difficult to blame the government for that one unless I was pushing for more government regulation...

Do you honestly believe that people like myself enjoy the idea of paying all of that student loan money back to uncle Sam? I would have much preferred the "work your way up" system where I wouldn't be indebted to anyone just so I can work... I think it's retarded that my generation is required to go into debt slavery just so that we can get a job. Who the hell wants to pay to work?

reply to post by Hefficide

The problem I have with you Heff is from everything I have read that you have said on here you are intelligent. Yet you continue to state conservatives have no compassion for the poor. That we should continue to give money by taxes that you KNOW will not go to them. That is my problem with you. Others I can ignore but by what you have written I know you know better. You ignore the real problem. The lawlessness that has been put into law. Insider trading legal for the congress. Murder allowed by the federal branch. Not even considered legal but no one will follow up on it. Murder committed by the police with their answer being I was afraid. If you were less intelligent I could excuse it. You sound like a good man but on here you actually push for the status quo. It has to change. The rules have to be the same for all. Until that happens no amount of revenue either by taxes or other means will help and you know it! That is why people want to leave. I suspect that most people know this at least subcounciously. I suspect that is why your family member choose sucicide but I disagree with his option. I always preferred to die fighting. It is quite possible I will end up in a tent in a few months due to the IRS but I pay more taxes then GE does and I am a mere worker. Funny thing is if I was cheating the government I would have the money to pay for the lawyers.

What I would like you to do is to use your intellect to change the situation rather then blaming conservatives for not wanting to waste money. It is not about the poor. It is like the Red Cross where very little of what you give goes to help people. Why should we give more if it is not getting to those who need it? Deal with that first and then come to me. If I am still around I will give more. Not before. You know that is the problem not the lack of compassion from conservatives you claim.

reply to post by Jerk_Idiot


~sigh~

I also go to great lengths to specifically state that I have no issue with conservatives at all. My ire is directed towards the farthest of the far right. I am equally as intolerant towards the farthest of the far left. Others, including some of the most right wing conservatives on ATS will, I believe, attest to this.

My personal desire is to dispel the propaganda that now riddles our society. This is my area of interest - understanding the mechanisms by which divide and rule work. They are, today, more prevalent than ever. Despite what the news and the pundits say, We, The People, have more in common than we have in opposition. That is the key to this. They spend a LOT of money making us focus upon those differences. I spend my time pointing out their ruse and hoping to reach as many as I might through this limited medium.

Sadly they will win - and they will continue to divide us.

The tragic part is that they have no idea, at all, of the powers they are unleashing in the interest of holding onto their power and paradigms. They are seeding the clouds, so to speak - and the coming storm will be like none that has come before in modern history. If the ghosts of Rome could speak - they might offer us this message...Find that which binds you lest you see your entire world rent apart.

As to why I tend to speak for the poor and not the rich? The answer is simple. I've been both. The poor have less of a voice in this fight - and I've always been a sucker for the underdog in any fight. It's a character flaw of mine - to always want to punch the biggest guy in the bar.

~Heff

Originally posted by Thepump

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Thepump

 

Yep the world is the same as it ever was considering all the people who are trying to burn the rich and keep them in chains to service the majority as slaves.

Guess they are just so damn cool.

Stop being a drama queen Neo, I bet you don't wear high heels and mascara, it is unbecoming.

Please show me a link of burning rich men?

And you stating that the ELITES are slaves is pretty stupid Neo, the Elites are the ones
enslaving humanity.

You are the slave, who does their work for free here with your half cocked concepts.

More sweet quotes from the mastermind:

I believe this is wisdom shared by Neo96....

"Well the Uss Liberty was a spy ship and they were spying on Israel no doubt it sucked but hell why do people still have problems with it?"

There is no such thing as the "military industrial complex"

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Thepump

 

And the condescension continues I am a slave to no one considering those evil rich are paying the majority of taxation for the majority, and always the first targets how are they not slaves?

edit on 19-11-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

Chump change I say... Why? Because they own the racket that's been put in place:

"But the size of the total system had grown to $67 trillion in 2011 — more than the total economic output of all the countries in the study."

Source


These banks are individuals mind you. The whole system is rigged whether you believe it or not.

reply to post by Hefficide

My problem is you propagate the same propaganda that you claim to want to dispel. As I asked you on another thread you listed your beliefs. They are the same as mine. Yet you are a liberal and I am a conservative. I have also fought as you have claimed. You would not believe me if I told you my fights. Most do not until they see me do it again and again. You claim to fight for the poor over the rich. I claim to fight for both. Wasting money is not good for either. Saying waste money for the poor is not reasonable and you know it. The waste is the problem. Yet you say give more even though it is wasted? You know better, Others may not and I do not fault them for their lack of knowledge. That is why I wonder if you are a disinfo agent. You say give more even though you know it will not get to those who need it. Like I said change the situation, eliminate the immunity which allows people to confiscate the money, and I believe you will have enough for the poor. If you do not THEN and only then come to me and I will give more. Until then it is like what happens in Africa. You send money to help the people and it is confiscated by the warlords. No help at all to those that need it.

reply to post by Jerk_Idiot


As to where I have said to "give more", I am at a loss. Unless you refer to my belief that the Bush era tax cuts should be allowed to expire. It is my belief that these cuts should expire - as they have actually been in place substantially longer than they were originally intended. They have run their course and now it is time to move beyond them.

I believe it was you who, earlier, complained about a major corporation paying less taxes last year than you did as a citizen tax payer. If it was not you I apologize - but feel that the point is valid and germane to our conversation. It is morally reprehensible that such a state of affairs should exist in any society. An entity worth billions contributing less than one working man.

The system is broken - of that there is no doubt. It is corrupt, incestuous, and perverted by a select few who have bent our nation into a piggy bank that they seem to have unlimited personal access to. Cronyism and graft are so rampant and normal that we don't even flinch when we are shown the truth of it. It is a very tempting thing for us to want to starve this beast. To use the blade of Democracy as a tool to sever the endless stream of revenue that seems to end up in all the wrong places and in all the wrong hands.

The problem is that those who abuse the system have created their machine with built in hostages. The sick, the elderly, the disabled, and the poor. These evil people have created a class of human shields to protect them. The machine is built so that when we do, as a people, eventually refuse to play along anymore - it is those people who will suffer the most and die first.

I find this unacceptable and morally intolerable. If the time has come for the tree of liberty to be refreshed in blood - it will not be in the blood of the defenseless and infirm. It does not have to be that way. Change can be accomplished without the type of extreme measures most tend to gravitate toward pondering.

Time and time again I use a term: The government exists at the consent of the people. This is a fact that they are well aware of - but that they do not want us being knowledgeable about. They will do what we tell them to do, provided that we can unite our voices long enough to do the telling. That is why they keep us divided. As long as there are multiple voices, demanding inconsistent things - that can be used against us.

In the big picture, right, left, middle, or otherwise... it's going to get worse before it gets better. We, as a nation, exceeded our means for a very long time. Even now, in this recession ( depression ) we continue to do so. We have become addicted to addiction. More, more, more, bigger, better, newer. This is a huge part of the problem with our society. We all feel entitled to that 70 inch HDTV on the wall, and the four other, slightly smaller ones, we have throughout the house.

We point fingers at our corrupt politicians for their avarice and it echoes empty - as we haven't addressed the avarice in our own homes. We fail to tar and feather our corrupt leaders because we relate to them on some level. They're getting theirs just as we get ours.

It's the lack of balance, you see. That is the core problem. All of these other issues? Simply symptoms of the disease.

We have to fix the machine itself. Then, once that it done, we can start fine-tuning it and adjusting it to run in a more efficient manner. The misappropriation of our tax dollars and their appropriate or inappropriate use? These are symptoms.

The disease? That ones easy... Selfishness.

~Heff

4 more years of idiots thinking both political parties don't work for the same agenda

shouldn't this be in the rant section?

As for what you've ranted about OP,

4 more years with Romney would be just as like 4 more years with Obama.

Either way, no one knows the future (unless you know Doc Brown).

So bicker away, knowing not one of your words will change anything nor will it cause some sort of change in politics. In the end, it's democrips or rebloodlicans. So what are you? Red or Blue?

I'd like to say we're all purple but purple isn't an option is it?



tl;dr

This is a rant move it to rant section.