Filing a UCC-1 against our government officials, page

Okay, first, let me state a couple things. I debated with myself where to put this and skunk works won because I am no lawyer and this was just a crazy idea that popped into my head as I was doing research on all these strawman, UCC-1, and power of attorney posts that have been popping up.You know the ones... Anyway,,,

My research has led me to believe that this stuff isn't really all that feasible. However, as I'm looking into the UCC-1 lien, an idea popped into my head that I wanted to get the great minds of ATS to look at from a different angle and see how feasible this would be.

There are numerous definitions of the UCC-1 lien available online, but I'll use the Source here at wikipedia for simplicity.

It is defined as such:

A UCC-1 financing statement (an abbreviation for Uniform Commercial Code-1) is a legal form that a creditor files to give notice that it has or may have an interest in the personal property of a debtor (a person who owes a debt to the creditor as typically specified in the agreement creating the debt).[1] This form is filed in order to "perfect" a creditor's security interest by giving public notice that there is a right to take possession of and sell certain assets for repayment of a specific debt with a certain priority. Such notices of sale are often found in the local newspapers. Once the form has been filed, the creditor establishes a relative priority with other creditors of the debtor.[2] This process is also called "perfecting the security interest" in the property, and this type of loan is a secured loan.[3] A financing statement may also be filed in the real estate records by a lessor of fixtures to establish the priority of the lessor's rights against a holder of a mortgage or other lien on the real property. The creditor's rights against the debtor and the lessor's rights against the lessee are based on the credit documents and the lease, respectively, and not the financing statement.

Using this definition above, couldn't we, the American people, be considered creditors against our government officials? By naming them debtors in that they receive pay taken from taxes collected from us for the performance of their services which we have contracted with them for? If our representatives aren't cutting the mustard, we basically place a lien against their pay until we are in receipt of the work promised.

I'm no lawyer, but on the surface, it seems to me that it would be possible. I would appreciate some input from folks here that are more knowledgable on the law than myself! Hey, we've heard crazier here, right?

*sigh*

Give it up about the UCC. It won't work, and would more than likely be considered a "bogus filing" and thrown out by any judge. Depending on the state, it might also land you in jail/fined.

It appears that law enforcement is taking greater notice of the bogus UCC filing/harassment lien issue lately. The Circuit Court of Will County, IL is hearing case # 2012 CF 235, The People of the State of Illinois v. Sharon Jamieson. The defendant is charged with 3 counts of mail fraud (class 3 felony) in conjunction with using the US Postal Service to deliver allegedly fraudulent UCC financing statements to the IL Secretary of State.

Link

Trust me, there is NOTHING TO BE GAINED via ordinary people filing these unless it is for a legitimate business transaction involving personal property (under article 9).

It it were a viable option for some kind of personal gain, other well-known people would have taken advantage of it.

You haven't discovered some kind of glaring loophole that a well educated lawyer hasn't stumbled upon.

These are also not legal documents by the way. They are public notices, and it is up to a judge in a court of law to determine the legal sufficiency of them.

Depending on your state, one could file a UCC-1 with the debtor "Darth Vader" and have "The Emperor" as the secured party, and the "Death Star" as the collateral. UCC documents only become legally relevant when they are used in court.

UCC (and more specifically those sovereign citizen) people crack me up.

reply to post by MystikMushroom

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Thanks for adding that info! I had already come to the conclusion that the strawman gambit was exactly that, a gambit. The phrase that had caught my attention was:

"A person who owes a debt to the creditor as typically specified in the agreement creating the debt."

I was curious as to how far a stretch it was to consider an election a public contract wherein they perform a service for a fee. Your Darth Vader analogy summed it up quite nicely.

So much for that idea...

reply to post by SumerianSoldier

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Please do not be discouraged from looking into this, this is NOT false, this is quite real, the difference is that many people fail to do their homework and get caught in the system they are trying to be released from.

There are TONS of pieces of info about this, that is logical and works!! Especially if you are trying to be released from financial bond. The UCC filings are very complex, if you are not willing to look further and do some serious research then yes, this isnt for you.

Peace, NRE.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver

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I will continue to look into this, I'm always researching one thing or another! The one thing I can't get my head around is how it could possibly release you from debt (Or bondage if you prefer), even after doing the research.

If someone goes to court against you, regardless of whether you show up or not, regardless of whether you acknowledge the alleged debt, a judgment can be issued against you. Failure to pay that debt can lead to a bench warrant being issued for your arrest. A cop shows up and arrests you and, if you resist, it compounds the damage and then you're REALLY in bondage. One of the things I keep coming across in the research are people talking about how they take control of their "strawman", file a power of attorney on behalf of their strawman, etc... One of the primary reasons I see posts and blogs on this are people attempting to get out of paying taxes. (hey, who wouldn't, right?!) However, whether you acknowledge that debt or not, a judgement can still be issued against you and here come the bracelets or the garnishings.

People talk about how everything deals with law. Well, to me, that makes no sense either. (And I'm not being a smart-azz. I'm just stating that maybe I haven't traveled down the rabbit hole far enough and my logic; based upon the knowledge I have acquired thus far, leads me to believe this isn't possible... Anyway)

Say the IRS states you owe them back taxes even after you have jumped through the appropriate hoops. What's to keep them from getting a judgement against you regardless of what you you think of their charge? If everything is based on law, you would need to know every in and out against the coming barrage. Dangerous, to be sure...

They say the reward for patience is patience, it seems the reward for research is more research...

reply to post by SumerianSoldier

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Its mostly in part of us being taught the compete opposite about the "law". Ordinary citizens are not supposed to be up on the law, they are supposed to abide by the rules, no questions asked.

Everything is contractual. There has to be 2 parties and both have to agree on the terms, the only thing is that we openly oblige these contracts with our signatures. Most people that are mostly looking to get out of debt, dont need a UCC filing.

We have what is called a 3rd party debt. This debt is bought by a company that wishes to collect. They collect with harassing calls, and overdue charges that they do NOT have the right to do, its just that nobody questions it.

The thing is that it is bought debt, so in actuality your debt is cleared from the original corporation, this is one of the easiest to get covered, and removed.

This is not stealing, or being a thief, this is in fact playing the same games that are being played by them. Keep searching though, there is tons of info out there, and people will try to scare you.

There are a few places that you can find answers to this, you can start by reading the redemption manual, and the Mary Croft book and watch the videos. Even if you decide not to file, there is no down side to having the information anyway.

Peace, NRE.

reply to post by MystikMushroom

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UCC (and more specifically those sovereign citizen) people crack me up.





Well, members that have been here since 2006 and have yet to understand the necessity for action, regardless of validity, in regards to understanding how the system works, and what affects it and what does not, make me want to puke.


But, hey, at least you have good taste in musicians...and haircuts.

reply to post by SumerianSoldier

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Maybe i can answer that.

Law is not a set of rules, as such. Law is more of a framework by which we can come to an agreement.

The agreement contains the laws, which are binding because we agreed to them. The "trick" is this:
1. There is no value in money except as a PROMISE of FUTURE LABOUR
2. As you human, you can promise anything you want to
3. As a citizen, you are limited to the banking system, which is a con game that you are losing.

The ICC is valid, but easier to get wrong that right, in which case you'll be screwed, badly.
Actually all you need to do is resign your agreement with the state, returning ALL id's, licenses, etc. You will revert back to your APPLICATION for birth certificate, the origional piece of paper that your father signed at birth, applying to be registered with the state.

You'll be a foreign citizen, WITHOUT an embassy to help you.

reply to post by harryhaller

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Okay, so now I'm thoroughly confused... With your explanation, couldn't the idea from my initial post work against members of the government? Haven't they entered into an agreement with the American people in some sort of contracted matter for money by pandering to us for our votes with the promise for services not rendered in the manner promised? (Provided they haven't circumvented the charade themselves.)

reply to post by SumerianSoldier

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Keep a low profile. don't do anything that will get yourself red flagged by the g00v. That way you'll likely live an carefree life. But if you start stiring the pot you'll run into all kinds of problems.

reply to post by r2d246

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Brother, I'm sure I'm already on big gov's lists for one thing or another...

reply to post by SumerianSoldier

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Sort of.
Political parties are all playing in the game, don't matter if you vote a or b, because you have just approved of using the alphabet, which is all they need to hear.

You and i want to get out their system. You can, you have to be able to, but it's like having to win a game of chess, without ever having learned to, against Kasparov.

You have to send the govt a letter, and they will target you for it. How badly you want to get out?

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