20 Questions Christians Can't Answer!

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posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


History is an awfully big word and it means so much to every human being.

Bad and good are also distinctions we make based on our historical conditioning.

If you choose well, you will survive well. And your presence on ATS is a good start.

I don't believe in the inherent "badness" of people. Perhaps "misguided", but few are purposefully bad. Most of what I've come to understand is that it takes a lot of people to "deny ignorance", so that the truth can set you free - and believing that you can share experience with other people is an important step in learning to empathize and figure out who your true friends are.




posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 03:20 PM
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I do not consider myself a Christian, nor do I have any affinity towards a certain religion. I am going answer a few of these questions from one perspective. Some of these perspectives I have grown past you could say. Also I do not claim any of these to be "truth" just thoughts that have came to mind or resonated with me throughout my "seeking".

Nice post OP, S&F

Remember I do not consider the "truths" at all. Just one way to look at certain questions raised by the OP.




1. When Noah’s ark landed, how did the kangaroos make it back to Australia?


The "Ark" was not a normal boat as we believe. The Ark was a submissive vessel of sorts that contained the DNA of many different forms of life to preserve "life" after the flood.




2. If the ark was covered in pitch or tar to make it watertight, it also made it airtight -- how did the animals survive more than one or two days living in complete darkness without any fresh air? Remember, the rain lasted 40 days and 40 nights. Noah couldn’t open the window in the top.


The animals did not need fresh air because it was simply the genetic code DNA of the animals being preserved.




3. Since Adam and Eve didn’t know right from wrong before eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, why did God then punish them for something they didn’t understand they were doing?


Yahweh or the "Logos" of this creation became jealous when we chose to eat of the fruit, he thought we would follow his instructions. After we disobeyed him, he became upset.


4. Why would God place a forbidden tree in the garden so close to his innocent creation and allow Satan to tempt them into eating from it, all the while looking on without doing a thing to prevent it?


Yahweh began to worry his creation was not "evolving". He needed a catalyst to "jump start" the growth of his creation. A decision was made by Logos "higher" up the ladder than him. It was decided the catalyst would be "choice".

Up until this point "humans" never really had a choice of anything but perfect bliss. Yes the Garden was beautiful, but in a sense it was a beautiful prison we could never evolve or grow out of, or continue our path up the spiritual ladder of creation.

It was decided Lucifer would "fall" from their place higher up on the creation ladder and offer this catalyst of choice. Yahweh was not happy with this decision of a catalyst that may allow creation to have choice (free will). It was not his choice though, as the decision was made by Logos higher up then him. He had asked for a catalyst and he got one, just not the one he had hoped.

He believed the "plan" for free will would fail, because his creation worshiped him and would not disobey his word. The tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil was placed in the Garden. "We" chose to eat of the fruit, and the rest is history.

Yahweh became enraged at his creation and kicked them out of the Garden. More to that, but I will leave it here





2. If God is all-knowing and all-powerful, and has everything under control, why does he keep asking for money every Sunday?


Those are humans asking for money because they believe they are doing gods work. Free will is a #### but don't hate them. Churches do a LOT of good for their local communities.




1. The Bible tells us that God sacrificed his only son so that we can go to Heaven (John 3:16), but the Bible also tells us that he raised his son back from the dead again. If God didn’t really lose his son, then how is that a sacrifice?


"God" did not sacrifice it's son. That was made up by us humans to rationalize the killing of a very enlightened and loving human being.


Remember I do not claim these to be truth at all. You can point out why they are wrong and I'll agree with you



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by r2d246
 



so I better jump on that Atheist band waggon pronto, and become a bitter, lifeless, caluse, moron,


Insulting people doesn't make you sound smarter, and it doesn't do much for your argument either. It just shows that part of your problem might be coming from thinking you're better than other people.

That's the impression it gives me, anyway.


and then I can start sprending my religions faith of Atheism too. ya that sounds great, where do I sign up! Cuz Atheists have the universe all figured out and I want to be just like them.... and Tom Cruise too!


Atheists aren't the ones taking all of their answers from a 2,000 year old book and confessing that they would still believe in a 6,000 year old Earth even if all the evidence stated otherwise (and it does).

They will admit they don't have all the answers. From what I've seen, it's the Christians who pretend to know everything and then use that pretentious mentality to judge everyone they meet.

Perhaps you should be a little less condescending. You're not in much of a position for it.


I hate to tell you this, because I don't want to accuse you of being condescending. No, and I repeat NO actual mainstream religion ever said the Earth is 6,000 years old. That is claims made by individuals stretching back to the 17th century based on the level of understanding around geology at the time, which then fed some fundamental groups........ but of course it's a nice one to cherry pick and think that everyone both agrees with that and takes all aspects of the Old Testament literally - isn't it? It's such ignorant statements without looking a little deeper that actually makes you condescending as you are picking opinions that match to your own midset.



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by r2d246
This whole thing is such a pointless argument. The Atheists believe there is no god. Christians believe there is. So what? We each believe our own thing. Some of us agree to disagree. Problem solved.


Why do you narrow your post to Christians? There are many faith based systems out there including the faith in no faith known as atheism.



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by something wicked
 


Because for Christians, there's only two sides: those who believe in "God", and those who do not. They tend to look at the world in black and white, even though it is composed of 50,000 shades of gray which shimmer and shift if you look at them long enough.



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by something wicked
 


Because for Christians, there's only two sides: those who believe in "God", and those who do not. They tend to look at the world in black and white, even though it is composed of 50,000 shades of gray which shimmer and shift if you look at them long enough.


You really are very condescending aren't you? You think those of the faiths of Isalm or Judaism do or do not believe in a God? That Atheists think there is or is not a God? That is a very childlike point of view you have put forward there, good luck with the real world



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by MikeHawke
Just one thing i have to ask. Why does everybody feel like religion is wrong because people do bad things?if a scientist lied about his information or tweaked some readings in his theory's favor. I wouldn't go as far as to blame the entire science community for his mistake. Or If I went out to get dinner somewhere like an outback steakhouse. Then the food sucked and was cooked poorly and my waiter/waitress was never around. I wouldn't go blaming the entire chain. I would probably hold the wait staff responsible.
.

Sure...but that analogy only adds up under certain circumstances. It explains the occasional lone nutcase like a Jeffrey Dahmer....but it fails miserably in all of the other instances during the last 2000 years when the directive to be barbaric CAME FROM the religious hierarchy in the first place.

If you go to Chipotle or Qdoba and have a bad burrito...there's a good chance it's a problem with the cook or perhaps even the manager/franchise owner. However...if you go to Taco Bell and have a bad burrito the only people you can blame is the composite mass of corporate hierarchy that has deceived the public into buying its pseudo-food and yourself for being dumb enough to think you were buying anything other than well-seasoned dog food being pawned off as being "fit for human consumption" only by the most liberal of interpretations.

In Christianity ALONE the "one bad apple' theory DOESN'T explain these BROADLY ENDORSED and INSTITUTIONALLY SANCTIONED actions and events:

1. Witch Trials
2. Genocide (Native Americans, Jews, Pagans of all kinds)
3. Using the Hamitic Myth as a justification for the African Slave Trade
4. Manifest Destiny (both of the America's and the bizarre symbiotic relationship between Evangelical Christianity & Zionism)
5. The Spanish Inquisition.
6. The Crusades.
7. COUNTLESS instances of religiously-sanctioned child abuse.
8. The Catholic Church's support of Adolf Hitler.
9. Discriminatory policies between the sexes.
10. Religion's role in initiating/perpetuating a "Fire & Brimstone" criminal justice system which is partly-to-largely responsible for Prohibition and The War on Drugs.

Now...if during the last 2000 years there had only been ONE of these events you could maybe chalk it up to being the work of a single over-zealous preacher (the "cook"), a bad sect (the "franchisees 5 or 10 restaurants), a certain time period (the restraurant's lunch/dinner "rush" or a bad shipment of beef or something).

But that's not reality. These ARE NOT isolated events. These sorts of events just keep occurring again and again and again on every continent on planet earth, during every single century, and across denominations.

At a certain point...you gotta start blaming the restaurant itself.


I've got a couple of points to respond to.... For #9, I don't believe in discrimination... but I do think that women are different than guys, and should be treated as such.

For #10... If you recall... Prohibition was a knee-jerk reaction right after Coca-cola was putting coc aine into their drinks... It was about the same time... People panicked and clamped-down bigtime. But if you think that "The War on Drugs" is a problem (I don't)... that's probably a different thread.

Yes... for the above, your logic would hold true... if the Franchise approved the above atrocoties.... The standard argumentive reply is that people do atrocities in the name of aethism as well... which is true.

If you can find New Testament scriptures to back up acts in the list... then fine. It's a problem. Otherwise, it's just man trying to validate / justify his actions by saying.... "the voices told me to"... or "the scriptures told me to"... That doesn't imply that God approved....even if they go to a stained-glass church right before- where the people up front have long colorful robes on... Or if they themselves have long colorful robes on, and are found in church every Sunday morning. It's not an automatic endorsement from God.

By the way... all the crap that man does in the name of religion does not change God one bit. God is still wonderfully all-loving... God Is Love.


17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.
James 1:17 NKJV
edit on 20/11/2012 by MarkJS because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by MarkJS
 


I think it's worth mentioning that any time it is said someone should be "treated differently", you're threatening to open a whole new can of worms. The human species is incapable of treating anyone differently without it getting out of hand, because once it's started, it's hard to say where the line should be drawn, and before you know it, everyone is yammering on about unfair treatment, favoritism, bias, and discrimination.

If we were able to efficiently draw a line and prevent it from being pushed further and further back, then I would agree. Unfortunately, we like to discriminate, and any opportunities to do so will be seized. Not everyone is as scrupulous as you, remember.



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Philippines
 



Wouldn't Jesus be the authoritative source for this kind of question? It could be similar to asking what happens to a Jew in their afterlife who has never heard of God?

We don't have one SMIDGEN of writing by Jesus available to us. Perhaps somewhere, sometime, someone did (or does), but that's the problem with scripture. NONE OF IT was penned by Jesus.




16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
2 Timothy 3:16-17

"By inspiration"... means by the Holy Spirit...a part of the Godhead.

and another about the validity of the scriptures and scriptural prophecy:


16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” 18 And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.

19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
2 Peter 1:15-21


Why do I believe that the Bible is inspired...? Because I tried it, and it worked.

Also.. the Bible has so many stories that man would not put in it... for example... of a patriarch.. I think Moses or Lot... being drunk and his daughters lying with him... The son of an Israeli king sleeping with his concubines on the top of the palace.... If man had their way.. all those embarassing little stories would have been wiped out long ago.

Then you have the story of the True Gospel...the one that Martin Luther discovered after reading the Bible.... That salvation is not 'bought'... or is even earned by good deeds.... But that it's a free gift, freely available to all.... much to the chagrin of the Catholic church. Another non-man made point the Bible holds.
This book was not written by man....
edit on 20/11/2012 by MarkJS because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 04:44 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


It's difficult to speak on this subject, because discussions can extend for hours and hours and hours.

It isn't everyone's cup of tea.

But some of the smarter people on the planet also realize, if you don't compromise on some things, you risk the possibility of never being able to savour the outcome of collective efforts.

Which is why "love" is the central theme, from which arises the need to empathize.



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by sensibleSenseless
 

I think you are saying: Pick your battles....

I agree... It's smart, for a couple of reasons...One... as you said.. the discussion can take hours and hours.. Two.. the energy used would be immense.. Three This is not really the topic of this thread (hey.. I didn't bring it up... just responded to it). Four.. .It would distract from the main topic of this thread.



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 05:56 PM
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1. When Noah’s ark landed, how did the kangaroos make it back to Australia?

The bible original text says the flood of noah covered the "eretz" which can mean land, region, dirt, country, and rarely world. Thus, I think the flood was to wipe out the Geber Nephilim, and was regional. In fact Chinese records of a great flood that went to the top of Mt. Ararat. No Kangaroos were needed to be put on the ark.


2. If the ark was covered in pitch or tar to make it watertight, it also made it airtight -- how did the animals survive more than one or two days living in complete darkness without any fresh air? Remember, the rain lasted 40 days and 40 nights. Noah couldn’t open the window in the top.

Actually, nothing in the texts indicates there were no air vents. But, if you want to assume it so be it.

3. Since Adam and Eve didn’t know right from wrong before eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, why did God then punish them for something they didn’t understand they were doing?

They were told NOT to partake of it. Thus they disobeyed God and followed the liar. We still haven't learned that lesson.

4. Why would God place a forbidden tree in the garden so close to his innocent creation and allow Satan to tempt them into eating from it, all the while looking on without doing a thing to prevent it?

That's a good question. My belief is God knew man would fall, and in a means to teach them love and forgiveness allowed the temptation. God's ways are far above man's and one man, Job, once questioned God and you can read what happened in the book of Job.


5. When the women went to Jesus’s empty tomb, was the stone already rolled away, or did the angels roll it away after the women got there?

The bible says it was rolled away in other accounts. Taking one passage over another about a similar event is a good way to stay ignorant.



6. On the first day of the week, when Jesus rose from the dead, how many women went to the tomb, and which ones?

Why? What do you care who or when they went? Obviously someone is knit picking.

7. If you believe the creation account in Genesis is mere allegory, then why don’t you throw out Paul’s epistles? Because he believed that the creation account was a historical fact.

I don't believe it was mere allegory and Paul's writings are heresy. He was not an Apostle, he never was chosen by Jesus / Yeshua, and he was rejected by Asia (Ephesus) which is revealed in the book of Revelation of God's favor upon them for rejecting those who claim to be apostles and are not. Paul was accused of being a liar and thus he would write in his letters, "I'm not a liar". I'll trust Yeshua's disciples over a Herodian Pharasee any day of the week.


8. How many donkeys did Jesus ride in his triumphal entry into Jerusalem? Was it one donkey, like Mark, Luke and John say? Or was it two donkeys like Matthew said?

Gee, maybe Matthew was saying the used two donkeys like the young donkey which Yeshua was no was being led by his mother. I know, common sense need not apply.


9. Matthew and Luke both provide genealogies for Jesus, going all the way back to Adam. Using both of those lists, who was Joseph’s father?

Not sure and I don't really care because he wasn't Jesus' father.

10. Was Jesus crucified on the first day of the Passover like the gospel of John says? Or the next day like the other three gospels say?

Now, that's a really good question finally. Let me see what I can dig up. It will probably take me 2 minutes..... here I go.

Ok... it is possible the the synoptic gospels account time in the traditional Jewish means thus the third hour would be the same as the Roman 6th hour. Hence there is no controversy.



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 06:08 PM
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These questions show a distinct snotty attitude of derision towards Christians. Now, I will admit that most Christians do not study their bible nor do they feel the need to do so. It's what they were raised in, they believe it, and why rock the boat, but when real issues arise their foundation is that of sand and not stone. That is to their own detriment. I believe in what I do based on many years of study in both biblical and esoteric texts as well as ancient history writings. You're attitude notwithstanding, I will answer your questions whether you are are really seeking answers is questionable, but for the sake of the weak and shallow of understanding, I think they deserve to hear from someone who believes based on study as well as heart knowing.

EDIT: To add questions for people who can't watch the vid:

1. The Bible tells us that God sacrificed his only son so that we can go to Heaven (John 3:16), but the Bible also tells us that he raised his son back from the dead again. If God didn’t really lose his son, then how is that a sacrifice?

Yeshua had no way of knowing he was coming back. He tasted the first and second death and thus is qualified to sit in the seat of judgment. Let me ask you how much it would hurt you to put your child amongst a bunch of unbelieving vipers who rip his skin from his body, knock all his teeth out, pierce his head, then mock him as he walks amongst them towards a most painful death. Then, watch your child nailed to a cross as his enemies laugh at him, gamble for his clothes and pierce his side. I would imagine even knowing he is coming back that would be a hell of a sacrifice, but if you don't think so then I imagine you never a tear for anyone who suffers and dies.


2. If God is all-knowing and all-powerful, and has everything under control, why does he keep asking for money every Sunday?

God owns it all. It is right to feed the ox while they are treading out the grain. Pastors must be paid to do their jobs, but I do believe there is excess. In fact only 2 churches are approved of by God in the book of Revelation. One fact made them special to God, but I won't cast pearls to swine, so if interested go study Revelation and find out what made them different from the other 5 churches. So far I haven't found 1 church like them where I live and thus I don't go there, but I won't judge anyone's faith who does.


3. The Bible tells us that God regretted making Saul king (1 Samuel 15:11), but if that’s the case, doesn’t that mean God didn’t know the future? Because if he knew he was going to regret making Saul king, he would’ve never done it in the first place.

It's called free will. God did not choose Saul. I'll stop here, but in case anyone wonders who has not studied the bible, there is a good answer for everything, but only if you really ask, seek and knock for truth with a single heart will you get it. If you just want to ridicule those who believe things, then you have your reward already.



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 07:01 PM
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Hahaha, atheists and agnostics are so ignorant that they actually think the Bible is literal. LOL. Wow. Thanks for the laughs.



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 08:12 PM
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I've skipped several pages, so I apologize if these questions or statements have been asked. I used to be a christian because of how I was raised. Later on I began to ask myself the same questions and it led to me abandoning the christian religion.

1. Psalms 139:16 "Your eyes saw my unformed body all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be". This verse basicly states that god knows your life before you are even born. He knows all choices you will make in life, meaning the choice you think is yours to freely make has already been chosen for you. No free will. Also meaning he knows the life you will live and your destination after death whether it be heaven or hell. To put someone on earth knowing they will live a bad life and go to hell is absurd and definitley not a loving thing to do.

2. John 14:6 "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.". Ok. what about the people who live and die in an area of earth that have never/will never hear of jesus? according to this scripture they do not receive the honor of going to heaven and are either forced to go to hell or stay on earth? For those that say they have the chance to be before christ and accept him is completely idiotic. Imagine being dead for tens/hundreds/thousands of years and then being awoken in the presence of the lord and him say to you, i am jesus, i am the way to an eternal paradise, i am gods son and i am the one who awoke you. Do you accept this and believe in me? well of course they would. For those that lived around jesus and met him, they get to witness this dude make wine from water, heal the blind, walk on water, etc....why is it they would get undeniable proof of existence and a simple yes i believe and yet we get no proof but an old book telling us to believe some hogwash?

3. Do you realize how long eternity is? it is forever, and someone who lived a bad life gets to live for a weasly 70 years and sins through out those years and gets to suffer for ever. isnt that absurd? or what about the person who lived a good life without religion or gods playing a part of it, yet die and are banished to hell forever to suffer for being a good person without worshiping god?

4.A lot of people give too much credit to god, when in fact he has done nothing. you have surgery and a skilled doctor performed excellent surgery on you and everything went smoothly and you thank god rather than the doctor, or you get a job that you have worked hard for along with the education that you have received over time and the first "person" you thank is god, when in fact it is you who earned the things given to you. You did it, be proud of yourself, not some invisible being that exists in your mind.

5. God has people (not everyone) that are good because they seek reward (heaven) and fear punishment(hell). then you have atheists and others that do not believe in a particular god nor reward/punishment that are good because it is the right thing to do. why would god want someone that is a christian doing good things for reward over an atheist doing good things because it is what they feel is right with no reward expected? not to say that all christians are only good to seek reward, nor am i saying that all atheists do what is considered good. just why would god deny a deserving individual eternal paradise based upon what they believe, rather than their actions in life.



I have other things that cause my questioning, yet i cant seem to remember them at the moment. if i happen to remember the other issues i will post when i can. Even if my questions are able to be answered it still doesnt change the fact that to believe god will punish people for not believing in something that can NOT be proven to them and to have an outcome based on beliefs rather than actions is silly.

I personally do not believe in any human worshiped god. id like to think we may at death be subject to our actions in life, and based upon them may have a bad afterlife/reincarnation or a good afterlife/reincarnation. i do not believe the bad afterlife would be an eternity though as that would not be fair, rather that person begin again. example a person lived badly and died at the age of 47, well they would have a bad afterlife for 47 years and begin again and hopefully learn to be a better individual with no conscious recollection of the past. or we could all become spirits and roam the earth/ other dimensions if possible. or we could just die and that be the end. these are all just theories and not necessarily what i think will happen.



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Philippines
 





To begin... You start by saying that the disciples of Jesus (the people who were with Jesus during his preaching/gospel) -- those people also acknowledge Paul, the supposed writer of Romans and the supposed author of many other New Testament books -- those same disciples upheld Paul as an equal, if not greater disciple even though he never met Jesus in the flesh?


Yes, the disciples upheld Paul as an equal and some of them traveled with him on his journeys to preach the gospel.

The Holy Spirit bore witness of Paul to the others.
edit on 20-11-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)


Thanks for your answers Deetermined. This may not come as a surprise, but you're the first person I have communicated with in a LONG time that has a good understanding of the bible. Mostly people choose not to respond from my experience.

Ok, so the discussion point we're at now is (feel free to correct):
- Paul wrote Romans, in particular Romans 2:12-15, which says that gentiles living outside "the law" will be judged outside of "the law"
- Paul is acknowledged as a "divinely inspired" writer of many new testament books, though he never saw Jesus Christ once while he walked the Earth.

If/after we get over the hurdle of someone (Paul) writing about half of the new testament (13 books out of 27), all the while never witnessing the gospel of Jesus, we can argue the credibility of the writer or accept his writing as plausible and compare it to other texts.

Frequently when I talk to Christians, I am told that Jesus is the only way to salvation and I need Jesus or I will go to hell. Meanwhile, the most prolific writer of the new testament, who never even saw Jesus when he was alive, is saying that people (gentiles) who never heard of "the law" will be judged outside the law.

What is the definition of "the law" that Paul is talking about in Romans 2:12?

When I look at other verses by Paul and others in the New Testament, it's no wonder people think that Jesus is the only way to heaven. Even Jesus says this:

John 14:6 "Jesus said unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes unto the Father, but by me."

Huh? So people can only get to the "Father" (this means in heaven right?) through Jesus? What about those living apart from the law, as Paul writes?

We can find more verses about salvation:

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Romans 1:16 " I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile."

1 Peter 3-5 "3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade-kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time."

I hope you can understand my confusion. I can find more verses talking about the "salvation" through the belief of Jesus Christ. My point still remains: why do all of these verses (many written by Paul) say that Christ is the ONLY way to salvation / heaven? And then in a few verses Paul says that those outside of the "law" (again, meaning what exactly) are judged differently.

There is only 1 reference to this question, from Paul, while there are TONS of references that seemingly contradict Romans 2:12-15.

What does Jesus have to say about this issue, besides describing himself as the way, the truth, and the life?

Again, this is my interpretation that keeps me skeptical of Christianity... Though not to a point of negatively affecting my life. If anything, not thinking about religion is living pretty free =)



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 09:48 PM
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reply to post by XxJustaSexiBoyxX
 

1. Psalms 139:16 "Your eyes saw my unformed body all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be". This verse basicly states that god knows your life before you are even born.
I don't know where you got that interpretation from, but it does not say that.
It just says the The Lord saw him before he was born.
The point of the chapter is the person speaking is arguing that "you know me and I am no idolater, like those other people who are my enemies, so smite them for me."

2. John 14:6 "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.". Ok. what about the people who live and die in an area of earth that have never/will never hear of jesus?
That was a threat to those he was teaching, not to reject him. People come to God through Jesus. If they don't know Jesus because they never heard of him, then it is rather academic because they don't know God either, since God is defined by Jesus.
What they would know, or think they know, would not be god, but whatever people dream up if left on there one to devise a god.

3. . . . banished to hell forever to suffer for being a good person without worshiping God?
"Worshiping God" involves mostly living ethically as God would instruct you to do. People who have no natural inclination to do that would be removed from normal life and kept where they can not cause any harm to others. They can take that opportunity to think about that.

4. . . . You did it, be proud of yourself, not some invisible being that exists in your mind.
You could have gotten killed in an accident before you ever reached that point, but were saved, and did not realize it was God who did that.

5. . . . just why would god deny a deserving individual eternal paradise based upon what they believe, rather than their actions in life.
What if it wasn't "eternal bliss" and it wasn't especially all that different from life now? Would you still care it you lived where you could see the sky rather than eternal twilight in an underground chamber?
What I mean is, is that the source of your resentment, this idea that someone might be enjoying something while you aren't? You hang out with people like you, and you have to do something beyond what you are maybe comfortable with in this life to have a better situation in the next. If saying you want to be like Jesus makes you uncomfortable then that was you just opting out of a nicer afterlife, so enjoy.
edit on 20-11-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by r2d246
 



This whole thing is such a pointless argument. The Atheists believe there is no god. Christians believe there is. So what? We each believe our own thing. Some of us agree to disagree. Problem solved.

r2d2,
the problem won't be "solved" until everyone agrees on the eventual discovery of the TRUTH. Like everyone agrees on MATH.
Disagreement is the heart of conflict. So, it's not pointless at all.


It is pointless because the bible says God reveals himself to whom he wishes. That's why some of us are hardcore and others are in the dark. Or you could believe the opposite, we're the nut jobs and you're in the know. And we're both locked into our points of view. So how is anyone ever gonna pick a side. That's not gonna happen as long as God doesn't show up in the clouds. Besides not everyone believes in STUPID MATH! Get real "math" what a joke that is! Oh ya I BETTER HIT THE MATH BOOKS CUZ I STILL NEED THAT "A" ! LOL Math, you mean mathematics? Like what you learn in school? Oh my gosh get real. Math doesn't explain tons and tons of stuff. And what limited math you do have is a gift to you from God. So again see we don't agree. The absolute is there is no absolute. Some of us aren't gonna stop believeing in God, others aren't gonna start. That's mostly all there is to this argument. The other thing I'd like to know is when do the Muslims, Buddists, Hindus, and others get there day in this kangaroo court? Why is it always just Christians that Atheists are SO FREAKIN OBSESSED WITH??? It's nuts, Atheists seem only psychotically obsessed with Christians. it's an actual PSYCHOSIS!!! Not different than a stalker! Only that instead we're trying to say "come in from the cold" come in side and be with us but as the stalker you'd rather lurk in the shadows and stay obsessed with your little fantasy of somehow disproving Christianity so that you'll escape Gods wrath. Thats' so nuts! Like why not escape the Muslim wrath??? They believe in monotheism. You might want to try escape there God as well!
edit on 20-11-2012 by r2d246 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 12:52 AM
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reply to post by namine
 


Dear namine,

Don't play games and claim you don't know your bible when you clearly do, you recite many verses. Don't play dumb. My father was a war hero, he truly was. He went to an event and listened to all the speakers, generals and decision makers. He said to me that what they said was true from their perspective and he told me that everyone fought their own war. He was left to die, he was considered expendable. The foolishness is in thinking that each Apostle saw the same thing or understood it the same way, they saw what they saw and interpreted based on what they saw. Get it?

You did not answer what I asked, what do you care what crazy Christians like me believe, what do you care? Ask me to find the dumbest christian that I can to answer your questions. What difference would it make? What difference would it make to you and I am very sorry if you judge christians by the dumbest answers that you get from people that claim to be believers.

Do you really believe you are so brilliant that this is the first time these questions have been asked in 2,000 years? I will ask a simple question, how many religions said they would be spread to the all peoples and that afterwords they would have a great falling away? It is a simple answer, none except Christianity and they got it right.



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 02:14 AM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by iwilliam
 



To be clear, I'm not certain that he did. This could be one of the many really bad translations-to-english found in the bible.


So, bottom line: the Bible is completely unreliable. Which means Christianity is completely unreliable. Wow, that simplifies the matter a lot. Thanks!
edit on 19-11-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



I'm not sure how you drew that conclusion, as that has nothing to do with what I was saying whatsoever. Next time try brushing up on your comprehension, or otherwise thinking a little longer before being so hot to respond with your "witty" mockery. If you look again you'llsee, I said that this was an issue with translation-- which has nothing to do with the "reliability" of the original text-- only the crappy translation. I'll even given an example below.





Originally posted by openeyeswideshut
I've got another question to add.... Why does hell exist? If God can forgive anything than why can he not forgive you for not asking forgivness?



That's actually an awesome question. My personal opinion is that it does not exist. Definitely not in the way it is commonly portrayed.

I personally believe that if there is an afterlife, when we die we all go to the same place, generally. Hell, I think, is maybe the moment as you're dying when your whole life flashes before your eyes, except suddenly your perspective is widened so greatly that if you were a real jerk, you know it and you know just how bad. I think that guilt, and that lesson is hell. That, or separation from god. Which I suppose would be non-existence.

Biblically speaking: Many people are unaware that there is not one, but several words in the original text which end up being translated as "hell." In the old testament, the word that gets translated as "hell" is "sheol" and its literal translation would be "ground." In these instances, when it is saying that you will end up in hell, it is saying you will end up in the ground. It means death. A spiritual interpretation might be that of a spiritual death. Even some of the evangelicals refer to the "second death," that being the death of the everlasting soul. Is that what "sheol" means? I don't know... I suppose that is open to interpretation. Literally speaking it means "ground."

In the New Testament (definitely IMO the more unreliable of the two -- too many authors etc) there are several terms used which end up translated as "hell." Only ONE term is ever used by Jesus himself that ends up being translated as "hell," is the word "Gehenna." Gehenna was a valley outside the old Jerusalem. In very far past days sacrifices to moloch were made there, and in later times it was used as a dump for trash. The one instance where Christ mentions peril of being thrown into Gehenna, he is basically saying you will be trash, or will be thrown away like trash. Could this be interpreted differently? Maybe, I suppose. But that is part of the interesting (and dangerous) thing about these texts.

Another word you have is "hades." Christ does not use this word, and this term is stolen from the Greeks, obviously, and it does, in fact, mean "underworld." But as I've said, I do not stand behind everything in the bible. But apparently early church leaders thought references to "pagan" lore to be more acceptable for the New Testament than some of the Nag Hammadi stuff


Then you have the wacky book of revelation and its mention of the lake of fire. I think "the second death" is found here as well (as in, you are thrown in the lake of fire and your soul perishes). To the best of my knowledge, the book of revelation is the closest you get to proper fire-and-brimstone hell, aside from the few mentions of "hades." But I like to think revelation is either highly metaphorical, a really bad trip, or some dude losing his mind on a little island. Although I admit that some days I look at the world and the way things are going and wonder if I might be wrong about that.... or if some nuts out there are trying to force their own little version of armageddon on the rest of the world.

edit on 21-11-2012 by iwilliam because: (no reason given)
edit on 21-11-2012 by iwilliam because: (no reason given)





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