Zionism

I have read a lot of posts here lately about zionsim, in which the majority were negative in context. This led me to study a little bit more about exactly what zionism is, and wondered if most of the posters that were putting negative posts about it really understood what it is.
zionism-israel.com...

Zionism is the Jewish national liberation movement. "Zionism" derives its name from "Zion," (pronounced "Tzyion" in Hebrew) a hill in Jerusalem. The word means "marker" or commemoration. "Shivath Tzion" is one of the traditional terms for the return of Jewish exiles. "Zionism" is not a monolithic ideological movement. It includes, for example, socialist Zionists such as Ber Borochov, religious Zionists such as rabbis Kook and Reines, nationalists such as Zeev Jabotinsky and cultural Zionists exemplified by Asher Ginsberg (Ahad Ha'am). Zionist ideas evolved over time and were influenced by circumstances as well as by social and cultural movements popular in Europe at different times, including socialism, nationalism and colonialism, and assumed different "flavors" depending on the country of origin of the thinkers and prevalent contemporary intellectual currents. Accordingly, no single person, publication, quote or pronouncement should be taken as embodying "official" Zionist ideology.

Pre-Zionism - The cultural basis of Zionism, the tie of the Jewish people to the land of Israel, existed since the time of the exile, throughout the history of the Galut (Golah, Diaspora). In this period, Zionism was often expressed in Messianic movements. We may, with some truth as well as humor, call this the period of "impractical Zionism."

Proto-Zionism - Early 19th century writings and movements that advocated the restoration of the Jews to the land of Israel, without waiting for the Messiah. This included the rabbinical Zionism of rabbi Yehudah Alkalai and Rabbi Tzvi Hirsh Kalischer as well as the somewhat later practical and secular Zionism of Moses Hess, Leon Pinsker and others.

Foundational Zionism - In this period, Zionism became an organized political movement inspired and initially led by Theodor Herzl and then by Chaim Weizmann. It includes the development of Zionism from the first Zionist congress to the British Mandate, including Political Zionism, Cultural Zionism, Practical Zionism,Religious Zionism and Territorial Zionism. The latter movements were stimulated as a reaction to Political Zionism. This period also saw the emergence of Labor Zionism or Socialist Zionism. The principle concern of Zionism in this period was obtaining a charter for a Jewish national home. The Zionist movement was led by middle and upper class Jews.

Mandatory Zionism - Under the British mandate, the leadership of the Zionist movement came to be centered in the land of Israel ("Palestine") rather than in Europe, and became identified with the Labor Zionist leadership of the Jewish Yishuv (community in Palestine). In this period Zionism focused on settling the land, on defense against Arabs, and later on rescuing Jews from the Holocaust and the struggle against the British government. David Ben-Gurion led the Zionist movement during most of this period.

Zionism after the birth of Israel - The Israel War of Independence and the birth of the state of Israel marked a watershed in the ideological and practical development of Zionism. David Ben-Gurion again is identified with the initial period of Israeli independence. Inside Israel, "Zionism" became associated with "official" ideology and political cant, derisively known as "tsiyonut."

Zionism after the Six Day War - The Six day war wrought significant changes in Zionism. It made Zionism more respectable in the United States among American Jews and it kindled a Zionist reawakening in Jews around the world, especially in the Soviet Union. At the same time it encouraged militarism, the birth of the Greater Israel movement and ultimately helped to bring to power revisionist Zionism under Menachem Begin and the Likud party. It also encouraged the dangerously complacent belief that the existence of Israel is an irreversible fact.

Zionism under the Revisionists - The Yom Kippur War set in motion a train of events that led to disillusionment with Labor Zionist leadership. In 1977, the Likud party came to power. Israel and a portion of the Zionist movement became focused on developing settlements in the occupied West Bank and Gaza strip. Socialist ideals were discarded in favor of a free economy. The historical culture of Israel changed. The education system downgraded the contribution of the Labor Zionist movement and its leaders. The change expressed itself in all aspects of Israeli culture. Formal dress, once anathema to Israeli politicians and Israeli society, became acceptable and desirable. Revisionist and religious Zionist movements, once the fringe of the Zionist movement, insisted that they are the "real" Zionists, and Zionism abroad came to be identified with the settlement movement.

The "Post-Zionist" Reaction and dovish Zionism - Those Israelis who opposed the settlement movement initiated a reaction against the Zionist swing to the right. This reaction expressed itself in the form of Zionist opposition to government policies, and of anti-Zionist opposition, which called itself "post-Zionist." The Zionist opposition seeks to end the occupation and settlement of territories conquered in 1967. The latter group strives to discredit Zionism as a colonialist imperialist movement and wants to end the Jewish State of Israel. As a byproduct of the Oslo peace process and the subsequent violence, the post-Zionist movement achieved considerable prominence for a time. Professor Zeev Sternhell is considered a member of the Zionist opposition, while Ilan Pappe is a "post-Zionist," actually anti-Zionist, advocate of the abolition of the Jewish national home.

Zionist Revival - The Arab Palestinian violence that began in September 2000 was accompanied by increasingly strident anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism, including calls for academic boycotts of Israel and calls for dismantling the "apartheid state." This induced a revival of Zionism and Zionist sentiment, especially abroad.

This was merely an attempt to let those know that read all of these things about Zionsim and not quite understand. So the question is, Is zionism really such a bad thing? In my humble opinion, no. I think a lot of people developed thier a line of thinking of criticism for zionism when the fallacious "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" which has been debunked as a hoax, but still continues to spread hate throughout the world.
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

It is a classic in paranoid, racist literature. Taken by the gullible as the confidential minutes of a Jewish conclave convened in the last years of the nineteenth century, it has been heralded by anti-Semites as proof that Jews are plotting to take over the world. Since its contrivance around the turn of the century by the Russian Okhrana, or Czarist secret police, "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" has taken root in bigoted, frightened minds around the world. The booklet’s twenty-four sections spell out the alleged secret plans of Jewish leaders seeking to attain world domination. They represent the most notorious political forgery of modern times. Although thoroughly discredited, the document is still being used to stir up anti-Semitic hatred. Origins of the Protocols Serge Nilus, a little-known Czarist official in Moscow, edited several editions of the Protocols, each with a different account of how he discovered the document. In his 1911 edition Nilus claimed that his source had stolen the document from (a non-existent) Zionist headquarters in France. Other "editors" of the Protocols maintained that the document was read at the First Zionist Congress held in 1897 in Basel, Switzerland. Note: According to reputable scholars, including Prof. Norman Cohn in his noted book, Warrant for Genocide, the world-control myth was actually lifted from a 19th century French politcal satire in which the alleged plotters weren’t even Jewish.

The Hoax Spreads Impact of the Bolshevik Revolution After the Russian Revolution in 1917, frustrated supporters of the ousted Czar rescued the document from obscurity in order to discredit the Bolsheviks. The emigre Czarists portrayed the Revolution as part of a Jewish plot to enslave the world, and pointed to the Protocols as the blueprint of that plan. The scheme of yoking the Protocols to the Bolshevik Revolution not only led to the allegation of a Judeo-Communist conspiracy, but promoted the forgery internationally. In later years, vicious Soviet anti-Semitic propaganda under Stalin and others echoed the conspiracy mythology of the Protocols. International Publicity In the 1920’s, two British correspondents, Robert Wilton of the London Times and Victor Marsden of the Morning Post, each of whom had lived in pre-Communist Russia, .promoted the idea of a Jewish conspiracy in Great Britain. Eighteen articles on the subject of a Jewish conspiracy as well as on the "Protocols" themselves were published in the Morning Post. Marsden translated the Protocols into English and in his introduction to the document asserted: . . . the Jews are carrying it out with steadfast purpose, creating wars and revolutions, . . .to destroy the white Gentile race, that the Jews may seize the power during the resulting chaos and rule with their claimed superior intelligence over the remaining races of the world, as kings over slaves."
A Polish language edition of the Protocols appeared in 1920. The following year the Arabs of Palestine and Syria used the Protocols to stir up resentment against Jewish settlers in Palestine, suggesting that the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine would further advance the "international Jewish conspiracy." This propaganda tactic persists in the contemporary Middle East; Arabic editions of the Protocols have been widely circulated by official Saudi sources, among others. American Debut The Protocols were publicized in America by Boris Brasol, a former Czarist prosecutor. Auto magnate Henry Ford was one of those who responded to Brasol’s conspiratorial fantasies. "The Dearborn Independent," owned by Ford, published an American version of the Protocols between May and September of 1920 in a series called ‘The International Jew: the World’s Foremost Problem." The articles were later republished in book form with half a million copies in circulation in the United States, and were translated into several foreign languages. By 1927 Ford had repudiated the "International Jew," but hundreds of thousands of people around the world had been encouraged by his initial endorsement to accept the Protocols as genuine. The Protocols and Nazi Germany The Protocols served to rationalize anti-Semitism and genocide in Hitler’s Germany. The myth of the Jewish world conspiracy permeated Hitler’s thinking, and he linked Germany’s economic hardship during the 1920s to the secret plot. Once in power Hitler invoked the Protocols to justify anti-Semitic legislat

edit on 18-11-2012 by Veritas1 because: (no reason given)

reply to post by Veritas1


Thanks for the link. I personally don't think Herzl was an angel, but I am for one someone who wants to consider all point of view. Thanks!

The only thing I don't get, is: They say all this protocole of Zion, links between Bolcheviks and Zion, links between Zion and Swiss bankers like Rothschild/Rockefeller, were all hoaxes. Who would make such a great hoax, and, most of all, what would be this person's motive?

reply to post by Veritas1

I have read a lot of posts here lately about zionsim, in which the majority were negative in context. This led me to study a little bit more about exactly what zionism is,

Before becoming an "Expert" in zionism you must look at "Several" sources. The link you gave does not give you a clearer picture than the other posters who you lump together as

negative in context

and wondered if most of the posters that were putting negative posts about it really understood what it is.

Please "Study" zionism a little bit more before comming to their defence and labeling most other posters as uninformed.

Zionism is jewish nationalism, which is just as bigoted as white nationalism.

Why should a religion get its own country? I could careless about what some ancient book says.

reply to post by Pedro4077


I am studying more about it, and I admit I don't know everything about it, but there is NO excuse for the virulent hatred that is being spouted off in these forums against the Israeli people. I give them a lot of credit for what they have done, a small country surrounded by enemies constantly lobbing missiles and attacks at them. However, when they do decide to fight back, then everyone seems to say, "Oh, big bad Israel is at it again," or Israel is so horrible, but yet they have withstood this long, and they will continue to stand. Im trying to stay away from the religious aspects of this, but according to text, when Israels' enemies come against them, and they will, then God will destroy them, so the whole world better keep any focused on this.

Originally posted by Veritas1
reply to post by Pedro4077

 

I am studying more about it, and I admit I don't know everything about it, but there is NO excuse for the virulent hatred that is being spouted off in these forums against the Israeli people. I give them a lot of credit for what they have done, a small country surrounded by enemies constantly lobbing missiles and attacks at them. However, when they do decide to fight back, then everyone seems to say, "Oh, big bad Israel is at it again," or Israel is so horrible, but yet they have withstood this long, and they will continue to stand. Im trying to stay away from the religious aspects of this, but according to text, when Israels' enemies come against them, and they will, then God will destroy them, so the whole world better keep any focused on this.

Do not confuse the Jews with the Zion Party.

Zionist is the KKK of the white supremacist jews
that thinks they are better then anybody else

people that thinks they are superior are in fact inferior to all others
until they understand that everybody is egualy important

reply to post by Ben81


I kinda agree. I need to know more but so far Zion just looks like what you said.

Originally posted by swan001

Originally posted by Veritas1
reply to post by Pedro4077

 

I am studying more about it, and I admit I don't know everything about it, but there is NO excuse for the virulent hatred that is being spouted off in these forums against the Israeli people. I give them a lot of credit for what they have done, a small country surrounded by enemies constantly lobbing missiles and attacks at them. However, when they do decide to fight back, then everyone seems to say, "Oh, big bad Israel is at it again," or Israel is so horrible, but yet they have withstood this long, and they will continue to stand. Im trying to stay away from the religious aspects of this, but according to text, when Israels' enemies come against them, and they will, then God will destroy them, so the whole world better keep any focused on this.

Do not confuse the Jews with the Zion Party.

My post states nothing about the Jewish people, zionism has been hijacked by the likes of Henry Kissenger and co, it's a big club that reaches far beyond Israel.

Originally posted by Pedro4077
it's a big club that reaches far beyond Israel.

Indeed. Very far.

woah didnt take long for the op to be "debunked"
now wants to delete his thread
doesnt surprise me

FAIL !

reply to post by Veritas1



Well Veritas I agree with you I have no idea why so many people are anti-Isreal. I'm not religious and whatever someones religion is doesn't matter to me.

reply to post by Ben81


no, I feel as I need to"study more" about this. Its not a "victory" for you. Come on man, grow up. I just feel as it possibly needs further review so that I can state my point more correctly.

Originally posted by Veritas1
reply to post by Ben81

 

no, I feel as I need to"study more" about this. Its not a "victory" for you. Come on man, grow up. I just feel as it possibly needs further review so that I can state my point more correctly.

oh you removed the new "please delete this thread" title
and put the old "zionist" title back .. better like this with the original title
i congrat you for growing up mate
and continu with the thread you have started

since you say you have to study more on zionist
please make sure you dont make a biased thread that cover only 1 side of the story
cover the whole thing (both side)
thats how we do real research .. thats how i do my research !

reply to post by Veritas1

As stated above, Herzl is considered by many to be the father of Zionism.

Plenty of interesting info on the topic:

Theodor Herzl (1860-1904), the founder of modern Zionism, recognized that anti-Semitism would further his cause, the creation of a separate state for Jews. To solve the Jewish Question, he maintained “we must, above all, make it an international political issue.”

Herzl wrote that Zionism offered the world a welcome “final solution of the Jewish question.” In his “Diaries”, page 19, Herzl stated “Anti-Semites will become our surest friends, anti-Semitic countries our allies.”

www.jewsagainstzionism.com...

reply to post by Veritas1


Zionism is Marxism in drag.

Wall of text alert! You need to surmise it for people to be bother to read it.

That aside, the problem with Zionism people have is what it's morphed into -- a delusion that a patch of dirt in a desert crap-hole is some divine land that will serve as the place for a rapturous metaphysical event foretold by a fairytale book written by largely megalomanical misogynists that claims one race of humans is better than all others.

Well tenable grounds for disgruntlement, if you ask me...

reply to post by Veritas1


Eh it's like the whole "in theory communism works" thing. In theory Zionism isn't a bad thing, but in reality the result of it has created a government in Israel that is dangerous to the world.

I think most of the people that are opposed to Zionists actually already know all of this you posted. I think the people that support Israel are the ones that tend to be ill informed. Same that goes for the people that call everyone who says something negative about Zionism an anti-semite. I know I have said lots of negative things about zionism and Israel's government, but I dated a Jewish girl that was one of the coolest people I have ever spent time with. So I hope the people that read this that need the education realize that not all Jews are zionists and that opposing Zionism is not racist/prejudiced/anti semitic etc.

reply to post by Veritas1


Well.. they haven't really done all that much. I mean they were basically exiled to that land, and then caged up the Palestinians. Then they went behind the US back to create nukes with South Africa so they could keep the land. I don't think there is anything particularly admireable about any of it.

I feel bad for the people that live there being fed hatred for a people and propaganda for the state.