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posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 07:49 AM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
OP ...it is the responsibility of the rich to take some of the burden of this recession.


First of all I am not rich nor do I come from a family with money, I now make a decent living because I worked my way through school and used the military to further my education and advance in my chosen career. I’ve worked very hard to get where I am and provide a better life for MY family..


Originally posted by michael1983lYou qualms with the poor and needy of society are a little selfish to say the least...
edit on 18-11-2012 by michael1983l because: (no reason given)


My qualms are not with the poor my good man. My qualms are with the millions of third and fourth generation welfare recipients that I have to take money from my family to feed, those who are capable but never work a day in their lives. My qualms are with the fact that they feel because my family has something, they should have it too! I do quite a bit of charity work in my community, and I go out of my way when I can to help the "actual" poor people, but not the lazy!! Being unable to feed your family by circumstance is not the same as an unwillingness to earn what you get!



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posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 07:52 AM
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reply to post by JBpage76
 


I am sorry but being on a wage over 100k is rich and well above average which means you can afford to pay more in taxes. Those that you describe as 3rd or 4th generation welfare scroungers are in the minority. Most people on Welfare would love the chance of a good job.


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posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 07:59 AM
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Honestly, in this day and age, you are rich.

You were able to go to college (sounds like the government paid for that if it was through the military), have a well paying job, pay all your bills, and provide for your family. You probably have at least one working vehicle but my guess would be two.

With all of that you ARE rich.

The majority of people either don't have a job or if they do they have low wages and short hours. They are in debt up to their ears and the collection calls don't stop.

Someone has to start paying more taxes. The people who can't even pay their bills should not be first on the list.

ETA:

One more thing. My whole life, and specifically the last two years, has been one big game of catch-up. I was unemployed the last two years surviving on my husbands barely there income. Twice a month we had to pay bills. Each time we were sick to our stomach because it was always a choice between do we want electricity this month or heat? I finally got hired last month and we can finally pay our bills with ease. Our transmission went out and we could actually PAY for it. I feel beyond lucky and RICH.

If my new job throws us into a new tax bracket and we pay more in taxes then so be it. I have no problem paying more in taxes to help those that are in a situation I have been in my whole life. I know exactly how it feels to never have enough money.
edit on 18-11-2012 by tport17 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by phroziac
.....you seriously think you can blame this all on Obama? REALLY?


Plane and simple yes... and his administration of course. Its his heathcare act thats causing the increase.


Originally posted by phroziacWho went to war with Iraq?
Who went to war with Afghanistan?
Who signed the patriot act the first time?
Who started this liberal police state crap?
Who was the first president to ever bring the national debt to a level obviously unpayable, to the double digits of TRILLIONS?


What??! Turn off the cartoons when you post, your getting off subject. I don’t give a damn about parties, both are too far to the extreme for my absolute loyalty. However, I do know that my taxes were reduced during GW's term, and increased in obummers term. We don’t have to get political parties involved for me to dislike this clown.


Originally posted by phroziacAnd don't take your beef with Obama out on old glory. There's a difference between loving your country and loving the illegitimate government


With that I actually somewhat agree with you, but its not just obama and his crew I have a problem with, its the other so called Americans that feel the changes he is implementing are for the better.. That leads me to believe they are either extremely ignorant of the real world or they genuinely want to see America go the way of the axe.... Either way.. in my opinion that makes them an enemy of the values on which this country was established, and by proxy an enemy of mine. I swore an oath in the military to "defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic'. There are some very clear lines being drawn in the sand...by both sides.. about fifty-fifty I'd say, depending what media group you follow.



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 08:11 AM
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reply to post by JBpage76
 


The USA is a democratic republic. We choose our leaders in things called elections. Your leader lost. GET OVER IT! Try again in four years.

I am a liberal, but I abstain from voting. I'm far too anti-war to vote for any of the pro-war candidates who run for office. I don't want blood on my hands regarding the War on Terror, the crime of the century.

So you don't have to thank me for the failure of Willard. You should blame Romney and the wild-eyed craziness of conservative media for promoting a bunch of selfish, angry, hateful messages and thinking that would win the White House.



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by JBpage76
 


I am sorry but being on a wage over 100k is rich and well above average which means you can afford to pay more in taxes. Those that you describe as 3rd or 4th generation welfare scroungers are in the minority. Most people on Welfare would love the chance of a good job.


I strongly disagree. There are people who out of necessity receive government assistance until they can get back on their feet or are physically unable to work, these people are the ones I do feel for and try to help. However your statement about the third and fourth generation recipients being a minority are incorrect, and I’m not basing this on opinion. The state I live in, its common knowledge that a MAJORITY of personnel receiving welfare are perfectly capable of holding down a job, but aren’t qualified enough to earn more working a regular job than they would on government assistance. So, they stay on welfare. Fact.


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posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by JBpage76
There are too many replies of “it cant be so… why blame obama” to respond to each one, but it is so. I didn’t hear this from a friend of a friend who voted republican… we were given this information by our supervisors as a “Friendly Heads-Up” before our upcoming corporate “drop the bomb” meeting.

Right now I pay a flat 18% tax on my monthly gross, for what ever reason, who ever made the call… to pay for obama’s health care bill my federal income taxes are expected to go up between 30 and 35%... not up too 35%... up BY 35% which is actually a 53% tax on our gross income. And that with my employer picking up the rising insurance premiums. If I made 50k or below I am sure the amount would be much less. No matter how you spin it, that’s what is happening to us right now.

And no my supervisor isn’t politically bias, he is not even American. He thinks obummer hung the moon.


I find it so disturbing that people don't understand percentages


If you're paying 18% and it's expected to increase 30-35%, that would put it between 23 and 24% tax base, not 50. Since the higher end should be around 25%, you're getting off pretty easy....

When you give evil, corrupt, deceitful people a little bit of knowledge, they tend to twist it to try to strke fear in people they want to follow them. Whoever has been sharing this "heads up" knowledge with you has twisted it using your own lack of knowledge in percentages to make you think you'll be paying a lot more than you actually will by switching back and forth between percentages and totals.

If you want to prevent yourself from being duped, you need to learn to do calculations for yourself so they can't fool you so easily.



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 08:25 AM
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reply to post by JBpage76
 


What its a FACT because you say so. Show me some evidence of what your suggesting, otherwise it is just a misinformed opinion. The poor are not the ones to target, the super rich corporations are as if they paid their fair share of taxes you would pay less but your government is just as terrible on this point as mine is because those companies bank roll their retirements. The poor are the last people we should look at taking money from.



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by JBpage76
 


I am sorry but being on a wage over 100k is rich and well above average which means you can afford to pay more in taxes. Those that you describe as 3rd or 4th generation welfare scroungers are in the minority. Most people on Welfare would love the chance of a good job.


It's not rich if you're self employed. But if you work for someone, i'd just like to know, how the hell do you do that?!


Most people I've encountered on welfare ARE 3rd or 4th generation scroungers...

But if you make over 100k, why should you pay a higher % of tax? Why should you pay half of your income so someone can get free money? Its not right. Even if everyone paid a flat percent rate, you would get more out of the guy who makes 100k. So this is retarded..



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 08:39 AM
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reply to post by phroziac
 


On that basis, why is it right that a person can work the same hours on minimum wage and earn 15k while the op works the same hours and gets 100k?

The reason the OP can earn so much is because the company he works for can operate in the US because the right infrastructure is available. Guess what that infrastructure has to be paid for. So taxation at a higher rate is fair because first of all the OP has a far greater disposable income than that of a waiter on minimum wage and secondly the OP's situation has been made possible by the infrastructure in place around him/her.

P.S. Taxation brakets according to income is perfectly normal in most places around the world. And thank your lucky stars you only have to pay 27.5% on a 100k income, in the UK it would be 40%.



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by JBpage76
I just wanted to say thank you to the other 50% of Americans who support and re-elected our most Nobel and Honorable Leader, Mr. Barrack Obama. Today I have officially been notified by my employer to expect a 30-38% tax increase this coming year. That brings the total amount of taxes I pay to just at 50% of my monthly income. So, I wanted to express my appreciation to you personally for your liberalism and humanitarian views of spread the wealth.

You have helped elect a fraudulent, socialist thief.. Enjoy your free health care, welfare checks, free cell phones because millions are now having to work twice as hard to keep from loosing their jobs, houses and vehicles to pay for yours!

On a closing note, I have officially removed “Old Glory”, which I have proudly flown my entire life. Call me what you will but I have served, fought and endured the loss friends and family for this country and what she stood for. What have you done? Recently I have seen the last shred of its morals and values cast aside for what? I am ashamed to be grouped in with "those" so called Americans who would allow anyone like this guy to be in office.

So again, thanks for stealing money from my family and giving it to people who are too lazy to earn it!!
edit on 18-11-2012 by JBpage76 because: spelling


No worries. You're welcome.



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 08:56 AM
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Look at it from another perspective. If you make over 100k a year, then...well...you have more "stuff". That "stuff" is protected by the police force and other internal structures provided by.... well, the government. Now think about the guy that's making 15k. They don't have much "stuff", so they're more likely to break laws and try to get YOUR "stuff". Their tax rates aren't as high because instead of being protected by the police and other agencies provided by the government, they are the ones you are being protected from (using a republican mindset to try to get the point through).

In a way, your tax rate is your insurance policy. It provides police protection, public transit, and it keeps that "horrible, nasty low class" happy and out of your wonderfully conditioned and styled hair now doesn't it? You don't want to pay taxes? Fine, buy an island and function on your own without the infrastructure provided by the government. If you want to keep your little townhouse and your nice autos and a place of employment, then you have to pay for it. You have to have insurance on your home, on your cars, on your health, well guess what, you have insurance on your "lifestyle" too, it's called TAXES.

If you want to retain the government that we have fought for over 200 years to have, then you have to be able to pay for it. Granted, there are good and bad things about it, but it's ours and we DO have the power to change it based on our election system. Your side lost the election, the other side won. There are still basic laws set forth by the Constitution that will be upheld and there are other areas of focus that each side prefer and will put their concentration on. Yours lost so we don't spend the next four years on your concentration, but the basic infrastructure is no different no matter which side won.

Don't like it? Find a better candidate next time. .....or buy an island.



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 09:27 AM
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Originally posted by Frith
reply to post by JBpage76
 


Your leader lost. GET OVER IT!



First of all I did not care for Romney either, but I do, now, strongly oppose obama and Romney was just the lesser of two evils. If I had my pick it would be Allen West! But thats another thread.

Second, I dont care if a Democrat or Republican is elected. Parties mean nothing to me, I research the man (or woman) and go with my gut. I dont give two tips what the media says.

So you can take that crap somewhere else.



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 09:50 AM
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Won the election.....check
Made extremist republicans mad..... check
Raised JBpage's taxes to 50% because he can't calculate percentages.... check

OK, my work here is done



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 09:56 AM
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Your anger should be directed at the private banksters who robbed all of us in broad daylight, nearly all tax goes straight to the private bankers.

This is the problem in America, everyone told to blame the poor, when infact it's the wealthy and the private bankers having all our pants down and greasing us up for full penetration.

Stop and look at the bigger picture, and were your tax's really goes.



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by JBpage76
 


I am sorry but being on a wage over 100k is rich and well above average which means you can afford to pay more in taxes. Those that you describe as 3rd or 4th generation welfare scroungers are in the minority. Most people on Welfare would love the chance of a good job.

I like this statement, but it should be changed to read something like this:

"I am sorry, but I feel that if you make over 100k, I'm entitled to more of your money."

But even still, why not just truncate everyone at say...40k? If you make more than 40k per year, the government should be allowed to take ALL the excess. All people making less than 40k are entitled to your money. After all, what do YOU need that much money for?

It would be neat to see this happen (but not at all enjoyable to live through). I wonder how long it would take for all the doctors, business owners, engineers, et cetera to quit their jobs or leave the country. I'd bet that it takes less than six months.

More often than not, people who are paid very well have jobs that are much more difficult to do (on a technical level), have taken much more risk to get where they are, or have invested more time and energy to reach their position. Why go through all that hassle when your rewards are just being taken away?

Yes, I've created a strawman position here, but the point is to ask "who decides"? What's to stop a crumbling society from demanding more and more from its producers and achievers? If majority-rule is the right answer, there's nothing in place to halt a downward spiral. At some point, people will have to stop feeling sorry for themselves, take some accountability for their own actions, and move themselves forward. If you have to move to another part of the country to find work, move to another part of the country.

People should not be slaves to one another, and the more you're taxed, the more of a slave you are.
edit on 11.18.2012 by NeutralGuard because: typo correcting



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by JBpage76
 


Wait . You are making above 105k and you have a boss ?


Anyway. Yeah, I don't think I feel sorry for you. And the only folks you can thank for any tax increase would be the House Republicans.

Not Liberals.



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by phroziac
 


The reason the OP can earn so much is because the company he works for can operate in the US because the right infrastructure is available.


Well your half right, I am an American but am no longer working Stateside. My company was based in the states but moved their headquarters overseas due to various restrictions and or sanctions imposed by the obama administration. With my specific company I got lucky, most other similar companies issued mass layoffs. I was almost one of them but managed to transfer overseas prior to. A lot of my friends who didn’t, got the boot and have since moved on to other lower paying jobs to make ends meat. I still pay US tax, but also pay my host country's tax.

Dont get me wrong on the issue of helping or supporting the poor, I fully believe and participate in the charity and believe in the brotherhood of man. I have no issue giving to someone who is unable to make a living on their own! I actually support the "principals" on which welfare system was originally based. If you want proof of these welfare careerist, then IM me and we can arrange tour together of a multitude of cities and states and visit them first had. I have, as have just about everyone else involved in the welfare system, seen career welfare recipient my entire life. In droves... its really not rare at all.

But again, you dont have to take my word for it, come see it for your self.



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 10:17 AM
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But seriously, This might have something to do with that ugly fiscal cliff thingy....

If THAT happens, We ALL lose!



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by JBpage76
 


So when we do away with protections for companies that moved overseas and took away American jobs like yours did, and your company crumbles as a result, you're going to be out of work and then get back on here complaining from the other side of the coin right?

Should be a nice learning experience for you.

You're basically supporting a company that moved overseas and left many without a job, then you complain that they don't have a job.... hmmmmm.





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