I'm sick of Mexico

Originally posted by foodstamp

You are a professional comedian, right?

Ok, I'll bite, then I suggest you go back to page 4 and read from there. Everyones comments. Every little stupid news clip and so on. And E-D-U-C-A-T-E yourself. Because your CNN program mimics the same statistics we've been talking about.

This is the same advice you need: go back and READ over all the credible sources which are explaining to you the reality of the situation. Ignoring facts and reality and just accusing others (who are providing them) of being what you are is...in the nicest possible terms, BS. The fact that CNN “mimics” the points that you are denying is rather important to the argument, I would say.

I’m not sure how many illegal immigrants are in the States right now (no one seems to,) and there are varying estimates by different sources, but it is agreed to be several million at this point.

What we have here is a situation where the far-right is pushing for (and at this point protecting) illegal immigration just because it benefits large corporations, to the detriment of the working class, and left-wingers are following suit with Obama in protecting ‘poor, innocent refugees’ who just ‘need a break’. The problem is, these are NOT poor refugees; these are criminals who are breaking into the US, arriving with thousands of dollars to buy false IDs or whatever other documents they need, and residence, to secure American jobs. This in itself is breaking the law, in more ways than one.

Do you believe that Illegal Immigration should be allowed? If so, where do you draw the line? At a billion? Ten billion? If you do not believe in the United States as an idea, a nation of laws, fine. As only a fool would claim to be a patriot while advocating Illegal Immigration, I’ll assume then that you are either a globalist or an anarchist. But there is already a line: legal immigration. If Americans felt that more immigrants could or should be allowed in, they can simply allow more in (there are many people always trying to get into the States lawfully, many of whom will never get in.)

Of course, the United States’ economy cannot handle any more immigrants at this time, as it is overrun. Many Americans are out of work (unable to find any jobs,) and the economy is in a terrible state. The more money in the hands of the people, the better for the economy. Illegal Immigration is encouraged by the corporate elite as they will do more for less. Illegal Immigration also harms the economy as Illegals, often coming from Mexico, return to Mexico with the money they made while in the US. Many of them send money home while they work here, as has already been explained to you.

I have no bias. I am reporting truth, obviously a foreign concept to you. I am not left-wing or right-wing, nor am I American or Mexican. I am merely observing the facts, which you choose to ignore.

You have exposed your obvious bias by ignoring many significant facts, no matter how credible the source, if you don’t like what they show. Truth does not work that way.

Originally posted by LoneCloudHopper2

Originally posted by foodstamp

You are a professional comedian, right?

Ok, I'll bite, then I suggest you go back to page 4 and read from there. Everyones comments. Every little stupid news clip and so on. And E-D-U-C-A-T-E yourself. Because your CNN program mimics the same statistics we've been talking about.

This is the same advice you need: go back and READ over all the credible sources which are explaining to you the reality of the situation. Ignoring facts and reality and just accusing others (who are providing them) of being what you are is...in the nicest possible terms, BS. The fact that CNN “mimics” the points that you are denying is rather important to the argument, I would say.

What? Did I not show you I have read them over? Is the fact that these numbers are NOT MATHEMATICALLY POSSIBLE not a good enough defense for you? What are you saying?

What we have here is a situation where the far-right is pushing for (and at this point protecting) illegal immigration just because it benefits large corporations, to the detriment of the working class, and left-wingers are following suit with Obama in protecting ‘poor, innocent refugees’ who just ‘need a break’. The problem is, these are NOT poor refugees; these are criminals who are breaking into the US, arriving with thousands of dollars to buy false IDs or whatever other documents they need, and residence, to secure American jobs. This in itself is breaking the law, in more ways than one.

Absolutely, Let's work on that AMERICA, not fighting over weather or not we need to shoot illegals and build bigger walls.
I'm not buying the fake ID bit either though. I've been through the walfare system. It's as accurate as a police booking station. Which I've had many run ins with as well.

Do you believe that Illegal Immigration should be allowed? If so, where do you draw the line? At a billion? Ten billion? If you do not believe in the United States as an idea, a nation of laws, fine. As only a fool would claim to be a patriot while advocating Illegal Immigration, I’ll assume then that you are either a globalist or an anarchist. But there is already a line: legal immigration. If Americans felt that more immigrants could or should be allowed in, they can simply allow more in (there are many people always trying to get into the States lawfully, many of whom will never get in.)

No I don't think it should be allowed. My argument is that it is not nearly as bad as they say as far as a drain on the economy goes. Ploys like this are easy for the media to exploit to distract from REALLY BIG AND BAD issues going on right now. This is an easy sell to the public because it sounds right, and people interact with these illegals on a daily basis. Most of us anyway. Now, throw some BOGUS numbers in there and now my friend, we have a smaller issue become a much LARGER issue. This issue is about as irrelevent as abortion is right now. They're not NON issues but small ones that made to be large.

Of course, the United States’ economy cannot handle any more immigrants at this time, as it is overrun. Many Americans are out of work (unable to find any jobs,).

This statement is completely false. ANY non citizen is fast tracked into the United States if they have a bachelors degree. And guess what? They really ARE taking jobs away from Americans!

I have no bias. I am reporting truth, obviously a foreign concept to you.

Then report it bud, that's all I'm asking. Cause you haven't yet. You've given me CNN and your opinions. Back up TWO major statements that your arguing. Like show me government numbers from ICE or something that show a 5-15 year data on illegals coming over the border. Show me a Census that got illegals living in the united states in double digit millions. That could easily back up your 3k-8k illegal statement. Something! I'm not too proud to change my outlook.

Anyone living in the USA who is directly affected by illegal immigration will tell you that illegal immigration IS a big deal and IS a huge proplem. You want exact numbers and no one knows the exact numbers for sure. We DO know that there are millions, that many ARE recieving benefits of some kind, that they ARE breaking the laws, that they ARE taking jobs away from citizens...

If you are so blind and cannot see this, there is no point in debating with you.

In all the years since we have had a legal path to citizenship, people have come from all over the world and with great respect and pride. One requirement was to learn the english language and they all did. Throughout the years of unchecked illegal entries into the country, people overstaying visas, and amnesty, we now have to press one for english two for spanish on our phones, WE are required to speak a foreign languge in our own country (spanish) in order to get so much as a simple factory job etc. For no other culture have we been forced to do this. Why do you think that is? There are far more spanish speaking illegals than anyone else and they are catered to on many levels.

Please don't argue with us just for the sake of arguing and ignore facts. Otherwise, we may choose not to respond.

Since you are so fond of numbers Sir, I thought I would share these with you.

"In FY 2011, ICE removed 396,906 individuals. Ninety percent of all these removals fell into one of ICE's enforcement priorities."

"In FY 2011 ICE removed 45,938 recent border crossers."


"In FY 2011, ICE removed 96,529 aliens who were either repeat immigration violators or immigration fugitives."
In their charts, the numbers have risen every year.

"Nearly 55 percent, or 216,698, of the people removed in FY 2011 were convicted criminal aliens – an 89 percent increase in the removal of criminals from FY 2008, and the largest number of criminal aliens removed in agency history."




www.ice.gov...

Those are just the ones that are caught.

reply to post by Night Star


kinda makes me want to start a "america sucks it's not worth going there" campaign for mexico.i would rather try to reverse the propaganda to make mexicans think going to america is a bad idea and that making mexico more prosperous and free than america with propaganda. everybody would go to mexico who is doopdedoo enough to believe it. odumbo got elected twice we can do this. keep telling mexicans how bad america is and they won't want to go there but start their own government handout system. i will first start by telling my mexican neighbor and friend about agenda21 and fema camps, plus how whistleblowers are treated like people who snitch on the cartels and show him pictures of said dead whistleblowers and say "we got our own cartels man just as viscious"

reply to post by foodstamp

What? Did I not show you I have read them over? Is the fact that these numbers are NOT MATHEMATICALLY POSSIBLE not a good enough defense for you? What are you saying?

I am personally not concerned with exact estimates. Others may argue with you over them, but I am not. As I stated, no one seems to know the exact figures.

Absolutely, Let's work on that AMERICA, not fighting over weather or not we need to shoot illegals and build bigger walls.
I'm not buying the fake ID bit either though. I've been through the walfare system. It's as accurate as a police booking station. Which I've had many run ins with as well.

“Shoot illegals and build bigger walls”? I’m not sure if you’re being silly or sensualistic here.

No I don't think it should be allowed. My argument is that it is not nearly as bad as they say as far as a drain on the economy goes. Ploys like this are easy for the media to exploit to distract from REALLY BIG AND BAD issues going on right now. This is an easy sell to the public because it sounds right, and people interact with these illegals on a daily basis. Most of us anyway. Now, throw some BOGUS numbers in there and now my friend, we have a smaller issue become a much LARGER issue. This issue is about as irrelevent as abortion is right now. They're not NON issues but small ones that made to be large.

Several million Illegal Immigrants are in the States, taking millions of jobs from citizens and legal immigrants, receiving free medical and even free legal representation (if needed,) and you do don’t think this is a significant drain on the US economy? Again, many send money home while working in the States, eventually to return home with their savings. Many are receiving free education, at the taxpayer’s expense (even if many of these taxpayers are jobless because of Illegal Immigrants.) And as these are criminals to begin with, and are cheating the system, of course many are going to cheat it in other ways as well (welfare and other services,) committing robbery, etc. Remember, these are criminals we are talking about here.

How do you expect the American economy to handle several million Illegal Immigrants? Where do you suppose a large surge of jobs to make up for this large shortage of work will come from? How can the influx of Illegal Immigrants be stopped if it isn’t taken seriously? Furthermore, if Illegal Immigrants are permitted to break the law, then why not everyone else? How is it fair that immigrants who are struggling to immigrate to the US lawfully have to wait so long and against such odds of approval while others just break in and get everything handed to them?

Is this the “American dream”? Just break in, cheat, lie and steal, screw everyone over and be rewarded for it? The real problem behind this is the corporate elite and the corrupt politicians who serve their dishonest, illegal interests.

This statement is completely false. ANY non citizen is fast tracked into the United States if they have a bachelors degree. And guess what? They really ARE taking jobs away from Americans!

This does not make my statement “completely false”. The same thing happens in Canada these days: certain white collar jobs are filled by foreigners with the right papers. At one time, Canadians were actually paid to upgrade their own education to fill such requirements. This lifted lower class citizens and overall boosted our economy.

Then report it bud, that's all I'm asking. Cause you haven't yet. You've given me CNN and your opinions. Back up TWO major statements that your arguing. Like show me government numbers from ICE or something that show a 5-15 year data on illegals coming over the border. Show me a Census that got illegals living in the united states in double digit millions. That could easily back up your 3k-8k illegal statement. Something! I'm not too proud to change my outlook

A number of mainstream sources have been provided to you to show that there are several million currently in the States. But again, exact statistics are often debated (especially as different sources have different political biases.)

You stated: “Illegal immigrants receive absolutely no federal healthcare or welfare.” This was total BS and I provided that dated report (which means that things would likely be even worse now,) to disprove this statement. These facts have been reported by mainstream sources, as people here have repeatedly shown you.

reply to post by foodstamp


You also might want to research MS-13: a gang of largely Illegal Immigrants operating, at this point, across the States and now even Canada. This is a huge criminal organization, whose members are estimated to be between 30,000 and 50,000, and still growing. They have been responsible for murders, robberies, burglaries, carjackings, extortions, rapes, aggravated assaults, kidnappings, prostitution, child prostitution, drug smuggling and human trafficking.
en.wikipedia.org...
www.dailymail.co.uk...
www.washingtontimes.com...

Its so simple it really is
Stop hiring illegal migrants
No more people coming over to try to get jobs because no one will give it to them
that's a big chunk of your migrants gone right there
Make drugs legal
no more migrants coming over or smuggling or killing over the drug industry why because the government will make them better and cheaper
that should solve some problems
but we all know that won't happen
Corporations CHOOSE to hire migrants
until that problem is fixed statistics, facts, what ever won't matter because migrants will always find a way to take advantage of a country offering them jobs.
And drugs will not be legal any time soon because DEA the Police CIA FBI will need to cut jobs
in the case of DEA i think all of them ;P
illegals committing crime, using federal benefits blah blah blah wouldn't happen if corporations would stop doing this

-Golden State Fence Company...In December 2006, the company located in Southern California agreed to pay nearly $5 million in fines for repeatedly hiring illegal aliens. Two executives from the company may also serve jail time. The Golden State Fence Company's work includes some of the border fence between San Diego and Mexico.

After a federal investigation in 1999 found dozens of illegal aliens on the payroll, Golden State promised to change their hiring practices. However, follow-up checks in 2004 and 2005 revealed that many of those same illegal workers were still on the job. U.S. Attorney Carol Lam said that as many as a third of the company's 750 workers may have been illegal aliens

Ironically, Golden State actually built a section of the border fence separating San Diego and Mexico.

Got to love good old American greed.
"how can we make money?"
"lets hire illegals pay them less to build our border fence to keep the rest of illegals out"
"I LIKE IT!" -_-

Originally posted by LoneCloudHopper2

I am personally not concerned with exact estimates. Others may argue with you over them, but I am not. As I stated, no one seems to know the exact figures.

Ok, If you're not concerned with EXACT numbers then how can you back parrot the same news articles if they've been shown to not be legitimate? You know what? Let's just move passed this argument because your approach later on in your letter (several million illegals) is a number that you and I can agree on and gives a foundation to debate from.

“Shoot illegals and build bigger walls”? I’m not sure if you’re being silly or sensualistic here.

I'm being both, nice observation.

Several million Illegal Immigrants are in the States, taking millions of jobs from citizens and legal immigrants, receiving free medical and even free legal representation (if needed,) and you do don’t think this is a significant drain on the US economy?

Well, these are again just blanket, vague acusations. I don't really know what you want me to argue? Do illegals receive federal healthcare benefits? No. If they were to go into a hospital with a bullet in there chest just or some other emergency that was critical to life? Yes. As would ALL people with or without health care. We're a nation built on Christian ideals! should we kick them to the curb right there and leave them to die? Absolutely not! That may be your argument but not mine. Certainly it would be a PERFECT time to begin deportation measures as soon as the illegal status had been determined.

As far as "significant drain" goes, again, That's in the eye of the beholder I guess. i would say no it's not a significant drain goes. Do millions, maybe billions go into them? Yes. But that's a drop in the bucket when the last QE numbers to go out were about 7 trillion in ROBBERY against the American people! That was the point i was trying to make earlier when I said these stories on immigration are ploys to distract from the real problems! I mean, Look at us! It's working! Were worried about a billion or so a year on immigration when were being robbed bling and sent to war!

And as these are criminals to begin with, and are cheating the system, of course many are going to cheat it in other ways as well (welfare and other services,) committing robbery, etc. Remember, these are criminals we are talking about here.

Criminal in the sense that they are illegal status. But no your lumping them into a catagory as though they were all MS-13 so to speak. And this couldn't be more incorrect. So no, you can't just say that these are ALL criminals looking to rip of the government

How do you expect the American economy to handle several million Illegal Immigrants? Where do you suppose a large surge of jobs to make up for this large shortage of work will come from? How can the influx of Illegal Immigrants be stopped if it isn’t taken seriously?

I expect it to handle as well as it has been handling it now. Quite well. The only thing saying were NOT handling it well is news media whom we've already determined are LYING about their GROSSLY over exaggerated numbers

This does not make my statement “completely false”. The same thing happens in Canada these days: certain white collar jobs are filled by foreigners with the right papers. At one time, Canadians were actually paid to upgrade their own education to fill such requirements. This lifted lower class citizens and overall boosted our economy.

So you agree with me? Your in support of American citizens losing white collar jobs to non citizens but don't agree with Mexicans taking 3 dollar an hour illegal farming jobs? I smell hypocrisy here.

You stated: “Illegal immigrants receive absolutely no federal healthcare or welfare.” This was total BS and I provided that dated report (which means that things would likely be even worse now,) to disprove this statement.

Dated report? where? If your talking about scams to rip off the government well, perhaps your right. But were arguing weather or not there is a federal policy of welfare to illegals. And there is not! With the exception of course to what we listed above about emergency care. Which again, is offered to all people.


We can tackle this problem much easier to go after business's hiring illegals. Per your CNN clip, we shut down all of three business last year. Therein lies your biggest problem. Eliminate the demand and the supply will decrease. But that won't happen cause this is by design. And if the media can delude you into thinking about the symptom (illegals) then they have total control to do what they want. Which is create demand for more illegals and bring'em in at 3 bucks an hour to save money. While you and I fight about illegals. A simple plan, yet so genius.

Doesn't anyone ever wonder why, In the new American surveilance state of drones and high tech, that illegal immigration is increasing? Design my friends.. Design....

reply to post by foodstamp

Ok, If you're not concerned with EXACT numbers then how can you back parrot the same news articles if they've been shown to not be legitimate? You know what? Let's just move passed this argument because your approach later on in your letter (several million illegals) is a number that you and I can agree on and gives a foundation to debate from.

They’re only as good as their sources. You can no more accuse the numbers of being too high as I could of yours being too low, other than to say that it is several million.

Well, these are again just blanket, vague acusations. I don't really know what you want me to argue? Do illegals receive federal healthcare benefits? No. If they were to go into a hospital with a bullet in there chest just or some other emergency that was critical to life? Yes. As would ALL people with or without health care. We're a nation built on Christian ideals! should we kick them to the curb right there and leave them to die? Absolutely not! That may be your argument but not mine. Certainly it would be a PERFECT time to begin deportation measures as soon as the illegal status had been determined.

I am not making any “blanket, vague accusations” that I am aware of. I have been pointing out several serious problems that come with the Illegal Immigration crisis. You are the one who came here, downplaying the seriousness of this issue and accusing people of not knowing what they were talking about, while giving you credible sources to back up their claims. I am not sure if the States was “built on Christian ideals” entirely, but in part. The commandments state “Thou shalt not steal” and also, “Thou shalt not covet” (to desire what is not yours.) I would say that the Illegal Immigrants are guilty of each. God wanted his children to look after the weak, not to protect the guilty. Besides which, the States has its own laws.

As far as "significant drain" goes, again, That's in the eye of the beholder I guess. i would say no it's not a significant drain goes. Do millions, maybe billions go into them? Yes. But that's a drop in the bucket when the last QE numbers to go out were about 7 trillion in ROBBERY against the American people! That was the point i was trying to make earlier when I said these stories on immigration are ploys to distract from the real problems! I mean, Look at us! It's working! Were worried about a billion or so a year on immigration when were being robbed bling and sent to war!

But many people are suffering. There are tent cities popping up. Millions are unemployed. Logically, as millions of these criminals are pouring into the States, crime rates will obviously rise: on top of what the normal criminal activity would be is added waves of Illegal Immigrants. Plus, when you add to this more joblessness (and homelessness) due to its added pressure on the United States' economy, this will only produce more American criminals.

Stephen Harper, Prime Minister of Canada, is warning the Canadian public of another recession (even though we are still in one) if the United States collapses due to changes to be made in a couple of months. This concern is of imminent spending cuts and tax increases, to take effect in January, will push the United States’ economy over the edge! Understand, Harper is warning Canadians that we may be impacted if the States suffers a collapse.

Criminal in the sense that they are illegal status. But no your lumping them into a catagory as though they were all MS-13 so to speak. And this couldn't be more incorrect. So no, you can't just say that these are ALL criminals looking to rip of the government

I am not “jumping them” into any category. Are you not listening to what is being said, how it is being said? I pointed out MS-13 as part of the problem. In no way did I insinuate that all or most Illegal Immigrants join MS-13. Is this your way of skirting that issue? What do you think about MS-13?

I expect it to handle as well as it has been handling it now. Quite well. The only thing saying were NOT handling it well is news media whom we've already determined are LYING about their GROSSLY over exaggerated numbers

Our prime minister does not share your enthusiasm on the American economy. And again, Illegal Immigration is a huge drain, however you try to downplay it.

reply to post by foodstamp

So you agree with me? Your in support of American citizens losing white collar jobs to non citizens but don't agree with Mexicans taking 3 dollar an hour illegal farming jobs? I smell hypocrisy here.

Where do you get this from? I am in support of educating our own to fill positions which are needed to be filled instead of bringing in immigrants to fill those positions. If our economies were stronger, we could afford to bring in more (legal) immigrants (but these are tough times.)

Dated report? where? If your talking about scams to rip off the government well, perhaps your right. But were arguing weather or not there is a federal policy of welfare to illegals. And there is not! With the exception of course to what we listed above about emergency care. Which again, is offered to all people.

By “dated report” I meant that the video I had posted was an old one.

We can tackle this problem much easier to go after business's hiring illegals. Per your CNN clip, we shut down all of three business last year. Therein lies your biggest problem. Eliminate the demand and the supply will decrease. But that won't happen cause this is by design. And if the media can delude you into thinking about the symptom (illegals) then they have total control to do what they want. Which is create demand for more illegals and bring'em in at 3 bucks an hour to save money. While you and I fight about illegals. A simple plan, yet so genius.

So you are against Illegal Immigration? I’m glad to see that you do at least acknowledge that it is a problem, just a problem not worth being too concerned about (from your perspective.) I think the States is in a lot of trouble (as we all will be, in the long run.) Our governments are working for corporate interests alone, even singing deals in secret which will only benefit them. Our natural resources are being exploited. We are polluting the land, the air and the water. We are over-populating the planet, over-spending, over-consuming, over-selling. We, as a race, are anything but conservative. This will be our downfall.

If only our leaders would practice some sanity and pay attention, think ahead, listen to scientists' warnings, facts and figures...but I digress.

Originally posted by Night Star
Since you are so fond of numbers Sir, I thought I would share these with you.

"In FY 2011, ICE removed 396,906 individuals. Ninety percent of all these removals fell into one of ICE's enforcement priorities."

"In FY 2011 ICE removed 45,938 recent border crossers."


"In FY 2011, ICE removed 96,529 aliens who were either repeat immigration violators or immigration fugitives."
In their charts, the numbers have risen every year.

"Nearly 55 percent, or 216,698, of the people removed in FY 2011 were convicted criminal aliens – an 89 percent increase in the removal of criminals from FY 2008, and the largest number of criminal aliens removed in agency history."




www.ice.gov...

Those are just the ones that are caught.

edit on 21-11-2012 by Night Star because: (no reason given)

Since the patriot act they've been doing EXPONENTIALLY better job tracking and documenting aliens. Millions of dollars at work for a fruitless job that does nothing in stopping them form coming over. If your happy with labeling them ALL criminals (Lonecloud). Perhaps it's easier for you to justify your stance by labeling things black and white.

Look, I don't know what to tell you. You keep basically saying the same thing over and over. I've defended m y point with numbers and statistics and so have you. I don't know what I'm saying that you don't understand or don't agree with at this point. I recognize it's an issue. I've never said otherwise that I can think of. My argument is that it is NOT a MAJOR issue when were talking about MAJOR economic issue pertaining to America today. And I've also stated that to remedy the "problem" is to go after businesses hiring these illegals. Something we are barely doing if at all.

I don't know what you want form me lady. Plus you stopped this debate with me long ago. And it was a good time to do so then. Because now you seem to insinuate that I've said it's not happening.

1,119 aliens convicted of homicide
5,848 aliens convicted of sexual offenses
44,653 aliens convicted for crimes involving drugs
35,927 aliens convicted for driving under the influence

ICE remains committed to maximizing the removal of those who pose the greatest threat to public safety or national security.

Lol, Looks like their nasty people eh? And look at that! ICE even tells us that there removing the greatest threats to our safety! what lovely propaganda!

Till you look deeper and find out 80% of the sex crimes are 18 yr olds having sex with there 16 year old girlfriends
94% of the drug offenses are small time marijuana charges.
And DUI's? really? You know that according to the FBI statistics. Illeagls account for .000007% of DUI'S? Illegals accounted for approximatley .019% of ALL crimes nationwide. Maybe we should label Americans as a criminal class too?

You wanna here some scary numbers? According to the FBI there was approx a total of 10 million crimes committed last year. Maybe we should point out the .019% though cause, well, there just bad, nasty people.

It's a small issue (illegals and there immigration to US) in comparison to what's going on. That's my defense and the numbers back it up. Check the FBI crime statistics for yourself. But I think I'm done defending this issue anymore. It don't matter if I show CNN newsbits are mathematically impossible. It doesn't matter if your arguing that illegals are a criminal class that are poisoning our society and I prove to you that they are actually a negligable amount of total crime committed. It doesn't matter what I say. Your clearly going to hold on to your stereotypes and prejudices. So I'm done...

Originally posted by LoneCloudHopper2
reply to post by foodstamp

 

So you agree with me? Your in support of American citizens losing white collar jobs to non citizens but don't agree with Mexicans taking 3 dollar an hour illegal farming jobs? I smell hypocrisy here.

Where do you get this from? I am in support of educating our own to fill positions which are needed to be filled instead of bringing in immigrants to fill those positions. If our economies were stronger, we could afford to bring in more (legal) immigrants (but these are tough times.)

You know, the education assitance your country has in place is a wonderful idea! Wish we had the same. I was pointing out though that you understand and agree that America fast tracks immigrants with educations whilsts those same immigrants steal our "important" jobs and you have no issue with that. I find that hypocritical if your stance is illegals are "stealing" jobs. what about the Non citizen legal aliens that are "stealing" our jobs as well?

So you are against Illegal Immigration? I’m glad to see that you do at least acknowledge that it is a problem, just a problem not worth being too concerned about (from your perspective.) I think the States is in a lot of trouble (as we all will be, in the long run.) Our governments are working for corporate interests alone, even singing deals in secret which will only benefit them. Our natural resources are being exploited. We are polluting the land, the air and the water. We are over-populating the planet, over-spending, over-consuming, over-selling. We, as a race, are anything but conservative. This will be our downfall.

Absolutely it's a problem, just a small one. But the remedy is there (tackling disloyal American business's) and nobody wants to enforce. They would rather take billions in tax dollars to implement better tracking and databasing the average citizen and illegal alike. Because that is what I believe this is all REALLY about when you boil it all down. Have the American citizen look at illegal immigration issue and think it's this MAJOR problem so the government can implement better tracking and databasing for all. How else can you justify billions of dollars spent to track and database?

edit on 11/23/1212 by foodstamp because: (no reason given)

reply to post by foodstamp


I think it is important to note that anyone who has ever lost a loved one due to a drunken illegal, feels that it is one too many. For anyone who has ever been raped or maimed, it was because of one too many. For anyone who has lost a job opportunity, It is because of one too many. The crimes commited by illegals were all avoidable. Had you have lost your child, wife, husband, parent or whatever, you would be fighting against illegal immigration and realize it is a huge problem.

reply to post by foodstamp

You know, the education assitance your country has in place is a wonderful idea! Wish we had the same. I was pointing out though that you understand and agree that America fast tracks immigrants with educations whilsts those same immigrants steal our "important" jobs and you have no issue with that. I find that hypocritical if your stance is illegals are "stealing" jobs. what about the Non citizen legal aliens that are "stealing" our jobs as well?

I’m not sure why you keep trying to paint me as hypocritical. I am merely pointing out that America has huge economic problems and that Illegal Immigration is part of the problem. They are breaking the law, are criminals and need to be treated as such.

Absolutely it's a problem, just a small one. But the remedy is there (tackling disloyal American business's) and nobody wants to enforce. They would rather take billions in tax dollars to implement better tracking and databasing the average citizen and illegal alike. Because that is what I believe this is all REALLY about when you boil it all down. Have the American citizen look at illegal immigration issue and think it's this MAJOR problem so the government can implement better tracking and databasing for all. How else can you justify billions of dollars spent to track and database?

It’s a big problem, for the reasons I’ve explained above. I fail to see how millions of criminals flooding into anyone’s country and receiving lots of free benefits for it could be considered a small issue, especially under the circumstances. Everyone has a Birth Certificate (or green card,) and when Illegals are caught with false ones they should be given an ultimatum: tell us where or how you acquired it or spend time in jail (before getting deported.) MS-13 has to be fought, and as they are involved in human trafficking, they are no doubt playing a part in replicating false ID cards. They and similar organizations must be penetrated and brought down.

But nothing is done so long as so many look the other way. On many occasions, Illegal Immigrants are discovered after breaking another law, are placed in jail for a few days and are then released back to society (the one they have unlawfully penetrated!) This issue has to be taken seriously. It is only getting worse.

Originally posted by Night Star
reply to post by foodstamp

 

I think it is important to note that anyone who has ever lost a loved one due to a drunken illegal, feels that it is one too many. For anyone who has ever been raped or maimed, it was because of one too many. For anyone who has lost a job opportunity, It is because of one too many. The crimes commited by illegals were all avoidable. Had you have lost your child, wife, husband, parent or whatever, you would be fighting against illegal immigration and realize it is a huge problem.

What a cop out. You have GOT to be kidding me. "The crimes committed by illegals were avoidable"? I don't know what world you live in lady. EVERY crime is avoidable. And in your seriously flawed logic you choose to disregard 98% off ALL drime in America and choose to focus on 2% by a people of Mexican persuasion. I've debated you long enough to pinpoint your racial undertone. Your just a simple racist with an axe to grind against Mexicans...

Your comments are now becoming quite sickening.

reply to post by wantsome

I think we should set up the border like a hunting game. You make it past the shooters and you can stay.

It’s a big problem, for the reasons I’ve explained above. I fail to see how millions of criminals flooding into anyone’s country and receiving lots of free benefits for it could be considered a small issue.

When you can boil this all down to simply labeling the Immigration issue as "A bunch of criminals receiving lots of benefits". I can't continue to speak rationally to someone who can see things in such a "Black And White" way. It is the most, No i take that back, ALMOST the most irrational understanding of a very complex situation I have heard. With the exception to Night Stars mindless drivel. I think I'm done with this thread.

Originally posted by Sinfulknowledge

Originally posted by foodstamp

You are a professional comedian, right?

Ok, I'll bite, then I suggest you go back to page 4 and read from there. Everyones comments. Every little stupid news clip and so on. And E-D-U-C-A-T-E yourself. Because your CNN program mimics the same statistics we've been talking about.

One that did get me though was the 3-8k illegals a day. ok, So there slick Let's do the math...Let's do an average of the two numbers... Say, 5k into the country a day. that's 1.8 million a year. So in the last 5 years that's what? Around 9.1 million illegals? all the way up to 8k a day over 5 years that's 14.6 million illegals? Ok, now let's use a real number like 15 years and 5k illegals a day. Because that's around how long this has been an issue. That's around 27.3 million illegals. Sooooo....That means...Ballpark figure... 15% of the entire US population is illegal? Well wait... That's not right. Because the latest census average was around .0009% was illegal... Nuff, said..

I know my number and/or math is not RIGHT on, however you get the picture.. When CNN reports that 66% of California's whole education budget is actually a cost from illegals and their offspring, you got skewed numbers buddy..

So yeah... Do the research.....

I'm not even going to go BACK into federal health care benefits... Read from page 4. My fingers are tired..

I do enjoy how you quoted my post then asked me if I'm a comedian like you actually said something... Don't give me a news clip give me research give me verifiable numbers.. Or I'll save you time... Don't do it because then you wouldn't be able to hold the same bias that you do right now. And we wouldn't want you learning something would we? Like maybe the media has been spoon feeding you garbage from an early age? That's a shocking discovery you may not want to come face to face with.

ON POINT BUDDY
no joke, some people are to lazy to do a little fact checking, that leaves us with a lot of mislead individuals
you get a star my good sir ;P

Thank you, I appreciate the fact someone actually respects the actual numerical facts of a situation. It seems to be a very rare commodity around here.