I'm sick of Mexico

Illegal immigration costs the taxpayers of California — which has the highest number of illegal aliens nationwide — $10.5 billion a year for education, health care and incarceration, according to a study released yesterday.

These are the same "newsbit" clips that are used to misinform people all the time! With the exception to education of course (this I'll give you) Illegal immigrants receive absolutely no federal healthcare or welfare. End of story...And you won't find any federal site that says otherwise because it doesn't exist.

Incarceration? Really? I'm not even going to address this issue. It doesn't apply to our debate at all. We're talking about gvoernment welfare to illegals and how it costs us money. Not too mention were talking chump change when were looking at the big picture.

"Undocumented workers have been taking advantage of a loophole called the Additional Child Tax Credit, a fully-refundable credit of up to $1,000 per child that was intended to help working families with children living at home. Not only are they claiming children within the U.S., they are also claiming children in Mexico."
Read more: dailycaller.com...

How does this happen? All Americans, whether legal or illegal, who earn income are required by law to file taxes, but doing so requires having a social security number which illegal immigrants aren’t supposed to have. The IRS remedied this by created the individual taxpayer identification number. This well-intentioned remedy has backfired, however, and is costing taxpayers billions of dollars a year.




Again, you CANNOT claim a child who is ILLEGAL! No way no how! your quote from this article is absolutley false. And unless you going to elaborate on how a "tax ID number" has somehow backfired then I can't debate it.

But since you bring up the Tax ID number lets talk about it a minute. The Tax ID number was put in place so legal aliens could work and pay taxes. If the legal aliens work visa expired, they were still liable for taxes but didn't reap any benefits from the federal government. So what do you have? Illegal aliens paying over 7 billion dollars in income tax ALONE that can not receive any FEDERAL benefits whatsoever. Unjust? Maybe, But let's just chalk it up as payment for the costs that illegals DO incur while in the states. such as education.

Your numbers are GROSSLY over exagerated and some accusations are just plain false.

Again.

Illegal aliens receive NO FEDERAL BENEFITS from the federal government. Your numbers that you have quoted from your articles lump ALL non citizens into one catagory. The majority numbers that they claim in their quotes are numbers from federal aid given to those that are non citizen but resident legal aliens whom pay taxes (just like the illegals do) AND receive benefits from the government. Try to prove otherwise, I'm intrigued.

I'm not suprised these articles make the unfounded statements they do. Your quoting one of the most diehard conservative right wing website available. Which borderlines on propaganda quite frankly. With exception to Washing Times.

reply to post by foodstamp


I really don't care what you believe. Illegal immigration is a huge problem for the USA and will be dealt with sooner or later.

reply to post by Night Star


Not in the next four years sooner.

Originally posted by Night Star
reply to post by foodstamp

 

I really don't care what you believe. Illegal immigration is a huge problem for the USA and will be dealt with sooner or later.

It's not what I believe, it's a statistical fact. Filling your mind with unchecked newbits Is how you corrupt your belief system. It won't be dealt with because it fills a need. A need to keep this capitalistic society running. It's no mystery why Mexican illegals are granted amnesty and all others aren't. It's no mystery why European well educated people are moved to the front of the line ahead of other that have been waiting for years. This is all necessary to keep the machine running. I'm sure we can both agree that nothing here happens without a reason.

Instead of being so defensive, maybe you could soak up some of what I'm saying and verify it through your channels. After all, don't we all want to be more enlightened and wiser people? Why do people (in general) take an educated argument and surrender with such childish acumen? Couldn't we just say, "Oh" or "never thought of that" and move on? I do when confronted with my own misinformation. I at least feel like I'm a better person for it. Why can't anyone else?

Originally posted by foodstamp

Originally posted by Night Star
reply to post by foodstamp

 

I really don't care what you believe. Illegal immigration is a huge problem for the USA and will be dealt with sooner or later.

It's not what I believe, it's a statistical fact. Filling your mind with unchecked newbits Is how you corrupt your belief system. It won't be dealt with because it fills a need. A need to keep this capitalistic society running. It's no mystery why Mexican illegals are granted amnesty and all others aren't. It's no mystery why European well educated people are moved to the front of the line ahead of other that have been waiting for years. This is all necessary to keep the machine running. I'm sure we can both agree that nothing here happens without a reason.

Instead of being so defensive, maybe you could soak up some of what I'm saying and verify it through your channels. After all, don't we all want to be more enlightened and wiser people? Why do people (in general) take an educated argument and surrender with such childish acumen? Couldn't we just say, "Oh" or "never thought of that" and move on? I do when confronted with my own misinformation. I at least feel like I'm a better person for it. Why can't anyone else?

edit on 11/19/1212 by foodstamp because: (no reason given)

More enlightened and wisened? Childish???? Have you ever you ever checked into the numbers of deaths caused by illegal immigrants to our citizens? Can you for one minute deny that this isn't happening? Do you think these families that have lost a loved one is going to embrace amnesty or feel that we don't need our laws enforced? This is only one reason I am against illegal immigration. Too many needless deaths of men, women and children, some maimed, some raped, all because our laws were not enforced.

We have citizens choosing between life saving medicines or food while an illegal has his needs met.

I have seen with my own eyes perfectly qualified citizens turned away from a job while an illegal got the job instead. We have too many families falling between the cracks, unable to get any help whatsoever because they make a dollar or two above the poverty limit. That won't even buy a loaf of bread. No foreigner should be able to come here illegally and hold a job while our citizens are suffering and struggling.

So what if I am defensive? I defend the citizens of the USA. How is this wrong?

People seem to think that because someone is an American they can't possibly be poor. Tell that to the ever increasing homeless people across the states. Some of these people live in colder climates and don't make it to see another year.

We don't look out for our own citizens, many who are hungry and sick and cold, yet we give jobs to law breakers who invade our country.

Illegal immigration is wrong on so many levels.

reply to post by foodstamp


You seem to live in a La La Land, where facts, sources and reality are to be ignored and those people who provide them are to be accused of ignoring facts, sources and reality. You remind me of my government.

Originally posted by Night Star

Originally posted by foodstamp

Originally posted by Night Star
reply to post by foodstamp

 

I really don't care what you believe. Illegal immigration is a huge problem for the USA and will be dealt with sooner or later.

It's not what I believe, it's a statistical fact. Filling your mind with unchecked newbits Is how you corrupt your belief system. It won't be dealt with because it fills a need. A need to keep this capitalistic society running. It's no mystery why Mexican illegals are granted amnesty and all others aren't. It's no mystery why European well educated people are moved to the front of the line ahead of other that have been waiting for years. This is all necessary to keep the machine running. I'm sure we can both agree that nothing here happens without a reason.

Instead of being so defensive, maybe you could soak up some of what I'm saying and verify it through your channels. After all, don't we all want to be more enlightened and wiser people? Why do people (in general) take an educated argument and surrender with such childish acumen? Couldn't we just say, "Oh" or "never thought of that" and move on? I do when confronted with my own misinformation. I at least feel like I'm a better person for it. Why can't anyone else?

edit on 11/19/1212 by foodstamp because: (no reason given)

More enlightened and wisened? Childish???? Have you ever you ever checked into the numbers of deaths caused by illegal immigrants to our citizens? Can you for one minute deny that this isn't happening? Do you think these families that have lost a loved one is going to embrace amnesty or feel that we don't need our laws enforced? This is only one reason I am against illegal immigration. Too many needless deaths of men, women and children, some maimed, some raped, all because our laws were not enforced.

We have citizens choosing between life saving medicines or food while an illegal has his needs met.

I have seen with my own eyes perfectly qualified citizens turned away from a job while an illegal got the job instead. We have too many families falling between the cracks, unable to get any help whatsoever because they make a dollar or two above the poverty limit. That won't even buy a loaf of bread. No foreigner should be able to come here illegally and hold a job while our citizens are suffering and struggling.

So what if I am defensive? I defend the citizens of the USA. How is this wrong?

People seem to think that because someone is an American they can't possibly be poor. Tell that to the ever increasing homeless people across the states. Some of these people live in colder climates and don't make it to see another year.

We don't look out for our own citizens, many who are hungry and sick and cold, yet we give jobs to law breakers who invade our country.

Illegal immigration is wrong on so many levels.

edit on 19-11-2012 by Night Star because: (no reason given)

Indeed the deaths of citizens due to illegal migrants is a cause for concern and u didn't state the number of deaths witch is about 9 thousand annually but mind you its not all Mexicans doing the killing, the reason it's Illegal immigrants and not Mexican migrants that those statistics have shown is because you got a couple that are from different parts of the world. If you can find me a statistic that shows the number of deaths caused JUST by Mexican migrants i would love to see it. Now what about Gangs, which i might add are U.S. Citizens, 17,030 homicides in 2006. They are the ones paying out all the cartels millions of dollars for drugs, supply demand. As long as there is a demand the supply will always be there. 2010 10,228 deaths caused by drunk driving, yet alcohol is still legal, supply and demand. During 2006–2007, a total of 25,423 firearm homicides and 34,235 firearm suicides occurred among U.S. residents, supply and demand. NOW for the good part, Mexicans taking your jobs, you cant blame it on them, its U.S. corporations that are hiring these people and saying no to the qualified U.S. citizens, who is really to blame here? The people demanding the jobs? Or the people supplying them? its not like Mexicans are making corporations hire them, the company's CHOOSE to hire these people. So my point is if you wanna enforce law or make new ones that are harsher on illegal migrants that's fine but it wont fix the problem, you must first start at the CORE of the problem which is U.S. citizens CHOOSING to hire non U.S. citizens. Start throwing people in jail that hire illegals cause that's when you will see a change, again its simplistic to say that Mexico is the problem and ignore the real issue which is a total disregard for morality and fellow citizens.

Indeed the deaths of citizens due to illegal migrants is a cause for concern and u didn't state the number of deaths witch is about 9 thousand annually but mind you its not all Mexicans doing the killing, the reason it's Illegal immigrants and not Mexican migrants that those statistics have shown is because you got a couple that are from different parts of the world. If you can find me a statistic that shows the number of deaths caused JUST by Mexican migrants i would love to see it. Now what about Gangs, which i might add are U.S. Citizens, 17,030 homicides in 2006. They are the ones paying out all the cartels millions of dollars for drugs, supply demand. As long as there is a demand the supply will always be there. 2010 10,228 deaths caused by drunk driving, yet alcohol is still legal, supply and demand. During 2006–2007, a total of 25,423 firearm homicides and 34,235 firearm suicides occurred among U.S. residents, supply and demand. NOW for the good part, Mexicans taking your jobs, you cant blame it on them, its U.S. corporations that are hiring these people and saying no to the qualified U.S. citizens, who is really to blame here? The people demanding the jobs? Or the people supplying them? its not like Mexicans are making corporations hire them, the company's CHOOSE to hire these people. So my point is if you wanna enforce law or make new ones that are harsher on illegal migrants that's fine but it wont fix the problem, you must first start at the CORE of the problem which is U.S. citizens CHOOSING to hire non U.S. citizens. Start throwing people in jail that hire illegals cause that's when you will see a change, again its simplistic to say that Mexico is the problem and ignore the real issue which is a total disregard for morality and fellow citizens

We have illegals from all over the world. Of course I don't just blame Mexicans. I blame illegals no matter where they are from. Yes I blame corporations as well, but people also have to take personal responsibilty and shouldn't be shocked when they are deported for breaking our laws.

I never said that Mexico was soley to blame.

Many companies are now being fined but I don't think any have gone to prison. I don't know. Corporations should be blamed and have harsh penalties. They not only take advantage of illegal workers, but leave citizens behind and jobless.

reply to post by Night Star


Laughing (but not in a rude way) because when u said they shouldn't be shocked when they get deported the first thing that went through my mind was "more disappointed because they got to make that big trip over here again"

and i know you didn't put all the blame on Mexico, i said that because that's what this thread is suggesting.

well in 2004 only 3 corporations fined for hiring illegals.
it better be going up that's pathetic. (source from video above )

here is a good laugh
-Golden State Fence Company...In December 2006, the company located in Southern California agreed to pay nearly $5 million in fines for repeatedly hiring illegal aliens. Two executives from the company may also serve jail time. The Golden State Fence Company's work includes some of the border fence between San Diego and Mexico.

After a federal investigation in 1999 found dozens of illegal aliens on the payroll, Golden State promised to change their hiring practices. However, follow-up checks in 2004 and 2005 revealed that many of those same illegal workers were still on the job. U.S. Attorney Carol Lam said that as many as a third of the company's 750 workers may have been illegal aliens

Ironically, Golden State actually built a section of the border fence separating San Diego and Mexico.

Got to love good old American greed.
"how can we make money?"
"lets hire illegals pay them less to build our border fence and keep the rest of illegals out"
"I LIKE IT!"
-_-

Just to play Devil's Advocate for a moment; Provided that the situation were reversed and the US was in Mexico's position, how many you would attempt to cross the border for even a small chance of some semblance of a worthwhile life?

reply to post by Night Star


Look, your just goinna keep going off topic untill you find something that stick aren't you?
I'm not an idiot. Obviously when people come into a country they bring problems with them. I'm not stupid sheeesh..

We're talking about Federal benefits need I remind you? I'm just going to stop cause this is getting silly.

You would act as though I'm taking the stance that EVERY illegal immigrant is some kinda "can do no wrong" person now. This is way off topic.

You're numbers are skewed and it's not an epidemic problem the way you make it sounds. You're time would be much better tackling the sources of problems and not the symptoms. Businesses hiring illegals, government handouts, and the MAJOR devaluation of the dollar which has forced some companies to feel that they have to hire people at 3 bucks an hour or so.

Ok? Peace?

I hope this helps that I agree that anyone dying by the hands of another is a damn shame. And I'm sorry that 9k people or so die every year at the hands of illegals. But I promise you this. I will make sure i research that statistic and where it came from and why before I speak on it. See, now wasn't that very adult of me and an enlightened approach? I feel smarter just having said it

We should immediately annex Mexico.

We can teach them real corruption.

Originally posted by LoneCloudHopper2
reply to post by foodstamp

 

You seem to live in a La La Land, where facts, sources and reality are to be ignored and those people who provide them are to be accused of ignoring facts, sources and reality. You remind me of my government.

I live in LA LA land cause you watched a CNN clip? Rofl... Do the research, then talk to me.....

Originally posted by zephyrs
Just to play Devil's Advocate for a moment; Provided that the situation were reversed and the US was in Mexico's position, how many you would attempt to cross the border for even a small chance of some semblance of a worthwhile life?

Me and Nightstar would. Mark us down!

Originally posted by foodstamp

Originally posted by zephyrs
Just to play Devil's Advocate for a moment; Provided that the situation were reversed and the US was in Mexico's position, how many you would attempt to cross the border for even a small chance of some semblance of a worthwhile life?

Me and Nightstar would. Mark us down!

No I wouldn't. I would go somewhere where they speak english and I would do it legally, or I would fight for change in my own country most likely.

reply to post by wantsome


I told my amigo down south about this thread and he made a video for you.



Didn't seem to bother him to much.

Originally posted by foodstamp

Originally posted by LoneCloudHopper2
reply to post by foodstamp

 

You seem to live in a La La Land, where facts, sources and reality are to be ignored and those people who provide them are to be accused of ignoring facts, sources and reality. You remind me of my government.

I live in LA LA land cause you watched a CNN clip? Rofl... Do the research, then talk to me.....

You are a professional comedian, right?

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by wantsome

 

I told my amigo down south about this thread and he made a video for you.

Didn't seem to bother him to much.

OMG That was hysterical!!!!!!!! How could that dog stay on it's hind legs and dance like that for so long? That was amazing!

You are a professional comedian, right?

Ok, I'll bite, then I suggest you go back to page 4 and read from there. Everyones comments. Every little stupid news clip and so on. And E-D-U-C-A-T-E yourself. Because your CNN program mimics the same statistics we've been talking about.

One that did get me though was the 3-8k illegals a day. ok, So there slick Let's do the math...Let's do an average of the two numbers... Say, 5k into the country a day. that's 1.8 million a year. So in the last 5 years that's what? Around 9.1 million illegals? all the way up to 8k a day over 5 years that's 14.6 million illegals? Ok, now let's use a real number like 15 years and 5k illegals a day. Because that's around how long this has been an issue. That's around 27.3 million illegals. Sooooo....That means...Ballpark figure... 15% of the entire US population is illegal? Well wait... That's not right. Because the latest census average was around .0009% was illegal... Nuff, said..

I know my number and/or math is not RIGHT on, however you get the picture.. When CNN reports that 66% of California's whole education budget is actually a cost from illegals and their offspring, you got skewed numbers buddy..

So yeah... Do the research.....

I'm not even going to go BACK into federal health care benefits... Read from page 4. My fingers are tired..

I do enjoy how you quoted my post then asked me if I'm a comedian like you actually said something... Don't give me a news clip give me research give me verifiable numbers.. Or I'll save you time... Don't do it because then you wouldn't be able to hold the same bias that you do right now. And we wouldn't want you learning something would we? Like maybe the media has been spoon feeding you garbage from an early age? That's a shocking discovery you may not want to come face to face with.

Originally posted by foodstamp

You are a professional comedian, right?

Ok, I'll bite, then I suggest you go back to page 4 and read from there. Everyones comments. Every little stupid news clip and so on. And E-D-U-C-A-T-E yourself. Because your CNN program mimics the same statistics we've been talking about.

One that did get me though was the 3-8k illegals a day. ok, So there slick Let's do the math...Let's do an average of the two numbers... Say, 5k into the country a day. that's 1.8 million a year. So in the last 5 years that's what? Around 9.1 million illegals? all the way up to 8k a day over 5 years that's 14.6 million illegals? Ok, now let's use a real number like 15 years and 5k illegals a day. Because that's around how long this has been an issue. That's around 27.3 million illegals. Sooooo....That means...Ballpark figure... 15% of the entire US population is illegal? Well wait... That's not right. Because the latest census average was around .0009% was illegal... Nuff, said..

I know my number and/or math is not RIGHT on, however you get the picture.. When CNN reports that 66% of California's whole education budget is actually a cost from illegals and their offspring, you got skewed numbers buddy..

So yeah... Do the research.....

I'm not even going to go BACK into federal health care benefits... Read from page 4. My fingers are tired..

I do enjoy how you quoted my post then asked me if I'm a comedian like you actually said something... Don't give me a news clip give me research give me verifiable numbers.. Or I'll save you time... Don't do it because then you wouldn't be able to hold the same bias that you do right now. And we wouldn't want you learning something would we? Like maybe the media has been spoon feeding you garbage from an early age? That's a shocking discovery you may not want to come face to face with.

ON POINT BUDDY
no joke, some people are to lazy to do a little fact checking, that leaves us with a lot of mislead individuals
you get a star my good sir ;P