Ranchers, farmers brace for 'death tax' impact (Should be titled, The Death of the private farmer)

I know people are going to say, "Oh, it's FOXNews...", but this IS going on and nothing good can come from it.

www.foxnews.com...

Two quick paragraphs from the article.

Many Democrats argue the tax promotes equality among classes, especially in capital gains -- or stocks passed from one generation to another. Since stocks are only taxed when they are sold, the government can't profit from long-term investments without the estate tax.

And

"Very large portions of very wealthy estates are tied up in stocks and they have never been taxed," said Lester. "The estate tax is one of the ways we make sure the wealthy pay a little bit more as an overall share of their wealth and income compared to low-income individuals."

This is right out of "Atlas Shrugged". Since when is the Government in the business of "Making a Profit?"

Maybe since they decided to spend us, the nation, into debt...ya think?

My family on my Father’s side has been farming in Wisconsin for generations. Farming is not a cheap no brainer business. Buying equipment and maintaining is outrageously expensive, and then there is the weather factor and the shrinking family as well to run the farm.

When I was 5 years old, the farm was 200+ acres that also had forest on it so it wasn’t all tillable land.

Because of taxes and operating costs and weather, it has been sold piecemeal down to 40 acres. It’s still being operated by my cousin, but under the upcoming tax laws, he doubts his sons will be able to take it over.

And another American farm will bite the dust and go to seed.

I thought that this maybe should go into a different forum, but decided upon Political Madness since this is madness thinking that by sweeping a broad tax brush will just hurt the big businesses. It hurts the little guy as well.

55 % death tax so when a farmer dies and leaves his estate to his survivors they seize half of it.

Where if someone had an estate valued at 13 million those heirs would owe over 7 million in taxes failure to pay the land gets seized.

Here is the rub, that farmer has paid property taxes on all that land which is where the value comes from which breaks it up to smaller pieces and produces no where near the income it use to.

Same thing applies on all business that is left to heirs, the government gets theirs screw the heirs.

reply to post by neo96


But...But...it's all in fairness! We have to help others less fortunate! /sarcasm

Yep. You betcha, Got it.

People think that there are the haves and have-nots now?

Wait a couple of generations down the road if this keeps up. Then it will really be visible for all to see.

Corperations and Businesses are shutting their doors and people are cheering.

Then they turn around and ask where are all the jobs? Useful Idiots.

I have been against a death tax my entire life, I do realize that not having one would benefit rich people more then poor, but I am ok with that. When you work your life to build something you should be allowed to pass it on to your heirs. Farms, business, a wad of money in an old sock, all of it should be freely passed between generations.

If your heirs continue to profit from these assets, they should continue to pay taxes on that profit. The death tax is a horrid thing that destroys legacies and small business and destroys the concept of making the life of your children better then yours.

reply to post by TDawgRex


The kicker is keep land in tact such as those farms shows wisdom which they clearly lack the population is over 7 billion with billions more and if that keeps up no way to feed them,.

Taking over half of estates is BS.

If I was a farmer I would tell my kids to not report my death, bury me on a nice hill on the farm and keep me alive for any Govt. man coming around.

"He's gone fishing sir."

"When will he back?"

"Don't know...He really loves fishing."..."Buh-Bye Now"



Peace

reply to post by neo96


Much of the family land has been sold to the Amish, who only farm a small portion of it. Just enough to feed the family and maybe open a roadside stand/farmers market. Their main trade is construction. (They do build some wonderful houses though)

My Dad is in his eighties now and says he has never seen so much forest as now. Makes for great hunting.

But the crops are not really there anymore.

And my cousins farm started out 20 years ago with 120+ dairy cows...now he's down to 30 or so.

And people complain about the cost of food.

This is a vicious cycle we are in. Why can’t people see that?

reply to post by TDawgRex

This is a vicious cycle we are in. Why can’t people see that?

They don't want to blinded by all that hope and change and fair share stupidity fact is millions of farmers are perishing, the land sub-lotted out that are nothing but really big yards to mow.

It's just damn sad really.

Originally posted by jude11
If I was a farmer I would tell my kids to not report my death, bury me on a nice hill on the farm and keep me alive for any Govt. man coming around.

"He's gone fishing sir."

"When will he back?"

"Don't know...He really loves fishing."..."Buh-Bye Now"

Peace

edit on 17-11-2012 by jude11 because: (no reason given)

Maybe find a poor, but honorable man, who looks like the father and give him room and board. But that'll last only so long.

Myself, I would probably just sell it all and say.

reply to post by TDawgRex


One Step away from an October Revolution.

The Decree on Land ratified the actions of the peasants who throughout Russia seized private land and redistributed it among themselves. The Bolsheviks viewed themselves as representing an alliance of workers and peasants and memorialized that understanding with the Hammer and Sickle on the flag and coat of arms of the Soviet Union.

October Revolution

Filthy Capitalists.......

reply to post by sonnny1


The farmers I know are pretty much divided. The ones on subsidies always vote liberal, and the ones struggling always vote conservative.

If a October revolution were to happen here, the farmers would be shooting at each other as well.

reply to post by TDawgRex



That's sounds about right. In the End?

The Government gets the land, or money resulting from it.

Sad.

reply to post by TDawgRex

Since when is the Government in the business of "Making a Profit?"

I think it is just a ripoff. IMO, the richest people already have many of loopholes to get around or limit what they pay upon death. Unfortunately, many ranchers and farmers can't afford those high price accountants and financial advisers. In the end, the rich will prosper more off the land these farmers and ranchers are forced to sell off.

"As long as there's uncertainty in tax code, everyone who's engaged in agriculture is going to be subject to the estate tax," Bacus added. "And as long as that $1 million exemption level is in there, every small business is going to be subject to it. So, it affects much more than just agriculture."

www.connectamarillo.com...

I also believe congress benefits off this debate and that is a reason they don't want to completely do away with this and other similar issues. As long as there is controversy, people are going to pick sides and donate to certain members of Congress who are willing to fight for their view. This is the way Congress plays the game.

The standard view has special interests coming first, as the predator, and politicians coming later, as the prey. The constant complaints we hear from elected officials about lobbyists reinforce this standard view. It should hardly surprise us to learn, although it seems to do so, that more often than not, Congress is the predator and special interests the prey. Congress, after all, has monopoly power over coercive legislative action, such as taxation (the power to destroy, remember?). Just as other professionals in positions of power and influence—such as doctors, dentists, car mechanics, and lawyers—“make their own market” by creating or exaggerating a need for their services, so too can and does Congress.

www.stanfordlawreview.org...

The rich get richer and the hard working Americans get screwed.

I'm heartened to see the support against this evil tax. In having recently overseen my late father's estate, I sure came to understand in a new way how this will destroy people and family property once handed down from generation to generation. His estate value came below current thresholds, but not by so much that I wasn't forced to have an accountant determine all that for me at the time.

Had that NOT have been under and this tax was in effect then? I'd have simply had no choice but ti liquidate property to met tax obligations. It's not as though the process of probate leaves open long term solutions to those bills. If the assets stand to pay them, the assets get sold. Whether that's a business, family farm or estate that's been in the family since the time of the revolutionary war. Doesn't matter....When Uncle demands paid, whatever exists gets dumped to pay.

By the way... everyone remember when the concept of double taxation meant something?? This isn't new money except that someone died. It's already money that was taxes when it was first earned into the family and then taxed yet again as purchases were made to establish what the Estate Tax comes along to wipe out.

In the US, can the estate/home/land be put into joint ownership with the person who would be the beneficiary?
Or if there is enough trust in the family, to just transfer the estate to the benificiary, before the present owner gets too old, or too ill?

I realize death cannot always be predicted, but in the cases where it's soon expected...

If you trust your kids you can avoid this (if you own the property outright) by selling them the property for a dollar. Leasing it back for a dollar and living on it till you pass on. Presumably you wil have to pay all the property taxes due until that time.

There is no requirement to sell property for it's assessed/appraised true value.

Could go bad if your kids don't intend to keep the land and want to mortgage it for some reason before you die.

reply to post by snowspirit


I have heard of parents doing just that. Selling rather than giving the kids the property at a greatly discounted price.

But that will only work once, as the Government is wise to this tactic and are looking for ways to close this particular loophole.

Originally posted by Golf66

Could go bad if your kids don't intend to keep the land and want to mortgage it for some reason before you die.

edit on 17/11/2012 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)

My Dad just chewed my ass the other day (first time in decades), because my sister wants me to move back to WI to help out with her property after her husband died recently.

I admit that it is tempting. 23 acres on the cheap, though with the provision that I will the land to her daughter upon my death.

Dad warned me in no uncertain terms, trust no one...not even family. Does he know something I don't?

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

This is a vicious cycle we are in. Why can’t people see that?

They don't want to blinded by all that hope and change and fair share stupidity fact is millions of farmers are perishing, the land sub-lotted out that are nothing but really big yards to mow.

It's just damn sad really.

edit on 17-11-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

This is not a new law.The estate tax is reverting to it's original rate. The tax reduction was given in 2001. When the law was written it stated that it would return to it's original rate in 2010. It was extended for three years in 2010. See what happens when we kick the can down the road?

en.wikipedia.org...

My problem with Fox news is that the reporter did not provide this information. Just another attempt by the MSM to divide and conquer.