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Originally posted by Rubic0n
This whole argument is moot.
Just because they have been there 2000 years ago Does not mean they have any claim on any of it in any way let alone kill for and and igniting entire wars over it. They are 2 millennial (20 centuries hellooo) to late with that to be able to use that as a viable excuse in anyway or form.
Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by HabiruThorstein
I do not think it is acceptable to link Judaism with Israel in the same way you have. For a start, it is not fundamentally accurate to say that Israels government, speaks for, or acts in accordance with the wishes and beliefs of all persons of the Jewish faith. Israels government are regularly petitioned to stop various of thier behaviors, by Jewish groups, and collections of individuals.
Many of the holocaust survivor groups are sickened by the behavior of the Israeli government over some matters, including but not limited to thier abuse of Palestinians, and thier constant and illegal expansion of thier territory.
Personally speaking, I have nothing but love for the Jews as a religion, and as a people. But the Israeli leadership does not speak for a people, nor does it speak for a religion. It speaks for the same thing any government speaks for, and that is itself, and the very powerful men who run it.
Me myself, I am a Christian. But Rome does not speak for me, and nor does any centre of power. I speak for me, and there is nought between me and my God. And yet people assume that because I am a believer in Christ, that I must be indoctrinated into a particular POLITICAL belief or set thereof. This is not true, and should not be. Being of a faith does not and, should not mean that one automatically is associated with a particular political ideology. Faith and politics are only linked by those who wish to spread hate, from within a faith, or from outside it.
This lever cannot be applied to people who have both faith and wisdom. Your argument therefore, is utterly invalid.
Originally posted by undo
i'm pretty sure more women have been abused in the name of religion, than muslims have been abused by any other group in their history.
Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by undo
My mistake. Sorry!
Out of curiosity, can you link (or perhaps PM if you think it is off-topic) the video? I want to confirm if it is the one I am thinking of.
I agree that being on here can sometimes turn you all negative ....so many of my posts here seem to deal with clarifying misconceptions people have about Islam, I sometimes forget about all the good stuff it has.
Originally posted by HabiruThorstein
If you're gullible enough to think that there's no anti-Semites out there who use Israel bashing as proxy outlet for venting anti-Semitic attitide, I've got some serious land deals for you I'd like to discuss. My point is 100% valid. I don't care if you're Christian, Zoroastrian, Taoist or New Age Pagan, anti-Semitism is alive and well and a goodly number of those who hate Jews simply for being Jewish are chronic Israel bashers. Nothing you wrote can change that.
I never said anywhere that Israel's government was infallible or beyond reproach, so your inventing a straw man there, by the way. Your bit about being Christian and not linked to Rome is another straw man.
Western Christendom covers a pretty large chunk of the world, dozens of nations are majority Christian. There's exactly 1 majority Jewish nation, and it's associated with Judeaism pretty universally regardless of whether it be secular, Reform, Orthodox Jew or what have you. To imply otherwise is disingenuous at best..
edit on 21-11-2012 by HabiruThorstein because: grammar error
Originally posted by HabiruThorstein
reply to post by TrueBrit
You're not going to ever find anything written by me placing the Israeli government above criticism, quite the reverse. Yet none of what you've put forth has anything to do with refuting my original assertion which is a simple answer to the question posed at the start of thread.
"Why the hatred for Israelis?"
Now, Israeli citizenship is not restricted just to Jews, there are even Arab Knesset members. I never calimed it was homogenous. But here's a litmus test for you, ask a random someone to name a Christian nation, then ask someone to name an Islamic Nation, or a Buddhist nation. You'll get multiple answers to each. Ask someone to name a Jewish nation, there will be one and only one answer, Israel. Bashing Israel is an easy out for anti-Semites to bash away at Jews without having to admit their prejudice.
Are those who consistently find fault with Israel all anti-Semitic? I've never said that, but as to whether it's a minority or a majority, I don't claim to read minds.
I do know a recent White House pool reporter who had been bashing Israel for years in print finally got caught expressing her true opinions of Jews in a less formal environment. She had been couching her anti-semitism under the mantra of reasonable criticism of the Israeli government for over 40 years.Some get caught, some don't. I honestly don't see what your problem is with admitting the fact that anti-Semitism finds an outlet in bashing Israel amongst other forms. It's just simply true. Doesn't mean Israel is perfect, just means that some people are going to bash Israel no matter what because they hate Jews and associate Israel with Jews. I'm not certain I can be any clearer.
edit on 21-11-2012 by HabiruThorstein because: grammar
Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by undo
Thanks! It wasn't the video I was thinking of, but the guy (who I've seen videos of before....supposedly some sort of comedian who never seems to be funny) brings up the same points of the video I WAS thinking of (about the rapes). Suffice it to say, the statistics he gave are totally bogus (probably not his fault, he just got them off somewhere else). I've covered that topic before here on ATS:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
and www.abovetopsecret.com...
The rest of his rant seems to be along the lines of how being multicultural is somehow against swedish culture and society? Not sure how that works. He also talks about anti-semitism in Sweden, but fails to mention how the same groups that are up in arms against the muslims (neo-nazi crazy-people groups like the Swedish Defense League and the Swedish Movement for Resistance and even the Swedish Democrat political party) are also targetting the jews.edit on 21-11-2012 by babloyi because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by HabiruThorstein
Making up statistics?
First of all statistics come in number form, and I dont give any. What I can give you is a very simple way to check for yourself. Look at Britains parliament, the French and german parliaments, look at the parliamentary process in all of Europe, and the political situation of the US. None of those places has a majority extreme right wing racist party in control of them. Not a single one.
In nations which do have prominent, but not leading right wing psycho parties, they are still minority parties. Look at the votes. If there was a vast majority of haters, this wouldnt be the case, but it is. No numbers, but absolutely factual none the less.