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Why the hatred for the Israelis?

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posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 11:50 PM
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reply to post by Logical one
 


"Your suspicions would be correct, no offence but there is no more evidence that a creator God exist than Father Christmas.
In any case you only have to go back about 100 years to understand why this conflict exists and the actions that Israel have taken in their vain attempt to live in peace with their neighbours.
Now I am not saying that it is all Israel fault........far from it........but their actions particularly of recent years have done them no favours..........so really no Biblical text is required to explain the question "Why hatred for Israelis".




Touche, Mr. Logic. You are entitled to your beliefs on God. And I wouldn't expect someone spiritually dead, such as yourself, to find evidence of God. Your personal opinion on "Why hatred for Israelis?" does not require Biblical text. Fine. But that does not change the fact that Biblical text provides a thorough and exhaustive answer to the question being asked.

Have a good day.




posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 11:51 PM
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reply to post by hellobruce
 


The God of Israel



posted on Nov, 19 2012 @ 11:59 PM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
Well if Hamas didn't hide amongst the civilians and launch rocket attacks from there, Israel would not be forced to fire back. Simple no?


Two wrongs don't make a right.

Apparently humanity needs to get back to kindergarten because we certainly didn't learn well.

I personally think we should throw both factions off the planet cause I am tired of hearing the whining and constant fighting out of both camps. If they want to fight it out to the death I say we find some other planet for them to do it on and get them out of our hair. Goodness knows, I don't like anything in my hair.
edit on 20-11-2012 by antonia because: opps



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 06:24 AM
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Originally posted by undo
something wicked



you did know that before making that comment........ didn't you?



yes he knew that. the point that some are trying to make is, if a semite hebrew, had offspring with a white european, that the offspring would have no claim over the land of israel due to the fact, they were half white or some fraction of genetic hebrew/jew. or the idea of becoming a religious hebrew or religious jew, doesn't qualify you for the promises made to jewish people in scripture. this is like saying, muslims who are not semitic, have no claim to the promises in koran. it's silly.

i think one area that's sensitive is, if the leaders are all atheists and not practicing jews, why would they think it was okay to use scripture they don't even believe in, to lay claim to a land that's promised to jews in a religoius book. they don't believe the book is legit . that frosts some people's petunias because it doesn't seem right to lay a religious claim to land when you don't believe in that religion. i would argue that it would be pretty hard to prove they were all atheists, in the first place. i mean, technically speaking, but that is a rather curious situation.
edit on 19-11-2012 by undo because: (no reason given)


This whole argument is moot.

Just because they have been there 2000 years ago Does not mean they have any claim on any of it in any way let alone kill for and and igniting entire wars over it. They are 2 millennial (20 centuries hellooo) to late with that to be able to use that as a viable excuse in anyway or form.

God also did not give them anything. God wrote nothing ,there is no actual proof of god let alone a contract or a promise on ownership. Show me the lease signed by god himself. It is the most ridiculous and not to mention childlike reasoning to laying a claim.

To all the people that i have seen saying things along the lines of : God intended the land for the jews and it will be in the hand of the jews no matter what it takes because god said so

If a man tomorrow decides to kill your entire family and after his arrest claims that god spoke to him and told him to do it just because it was gods will because according to his religion they were all in sin then i suppose everyone would be fine to let the man walk free, right? Because the reason given "is just to credible and just".

edit on 20-11-2012 by Rubic0n because: typo



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by Beavers
 


The problem with your question that you these things have been done to both sides of the conflict we are talking about. The Jews have been persecuted and killed for who they were and now they have turned and done the same thing to people who live in their new (relatively) religious state. The world should be shared and if it is such a holy place it should be an excellent way for religions to come together rather than fight it out like we are still the barbarians of the hill tribes. I know that this is a very optimistic point of view but myself personally I wouldn't allow myself to be involved and if i have to run from the land my government stole many years ago I will. I'm not a coward I'm a realist to make the world a better place I want to survive long enough to help others.



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by TruthLover557
Touche, Mr. Logic. You are entitled to your beliefs on God. And I wouldn't expect someone spiritually dead, such as yourself, to find evidence of God.


Going off topic a little..........but surely if God did exist, he'd want a "spiritually dead" (As you put it) person like me to know that he/she exists.
What's the point of God only showing himself to those "spiritually alive"?

God is strictly a man made creation........just as Thor & Odin are.....there is no difference......but believe what you wish......it's your choice.
edit on 20-11-2012 by Logical one because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by Logarock
 


It is a sad situation that Hamas like to fight their wars diffused amongst the civilian population. It is also sad that people can't see these dirty tatics used and prefer to blame Israel instead.



well when you are throwing rocks at the israeli air force, you have to come up with desperate tactics since you can't counter war fighters. desperate times call for desperate measures. hamas is evil, so is the IDF, the victims are the innocents who just want peace.



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by Rubic0n

This whole argument is moot.


And so is yours, because, like it or not, both of the factions warring over the land, are using holy books to back up their claims, both on the pretense that its historically validated. it's splitting hairs to say semitic people of one religion have a better claim than semitic people of another religion, especially if they are all related or of similar genetic backgrounds. what's religion got to do with land ownership? that's the entire point both sides are arguing, so you can't very well ignore the religious aspect of it if you want to solve the issue, because they are both using religion to claim the land.

you're confusing possession is 9/10ths of the law, which is secular law, with what essentially boils down to a book that contains a historical account of people of a particular religion and genetic background, who owned it. if both sides are related, then they're not doing anything different than if muslims from sweden moved back to their home countries. the issue is not a secular issue, but a religious one, as they are all of semitic origin either by blood, by marriage or by religion.

i tend to agree that secular law seems to suggest the most logical answer, afterall, when invaders invade an area and win it, in secular law, they own it. so either in secular or religious law, there's argument for both sides to live there. they just have to make up their minds to get along.

for example, jews won it and lived there for a thousand years or so, then muslims won it, and lived there for a couple thousand years, and then jews won it, and started living there again, both are stating their claim by possession of the land as the spoils of conquest or whatever.. however, they are also stating their claim by historical accounts in religious books.

not a simple shut and dry case.
edit on 20-11-2012 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 09:33 PM
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The only real evidence is that they've been kicked out of every country they ever infested, over thousands of years.

There is a reason for that. Give them an inch and they will behave the way they are behaving now, or how they behaved as Bolsheviks.

The only evidence they have any kind of history in Palestine, or any kind of claim to the land, is from a book written by themselves. Carries no weight.

Take away the 3 billion per day they receive from their deluded slaves, the US, and see how long they last. I'd give them about two weeks.



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 11:24 PM
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reply to post by undo
 

You seem to be mistaken.

The Palestinians (not all of whom are muslim, by the way) don't lay claim to that land through anything in the Islamic scriptures. They do it simply through having lived there.

Also, "Possession is 9/10ths of the law" is simply an expression. It isn't an ACTUAL law, secular or otherwise. If I captured your house and kicked you out, that wouldn't give me 9 times a stronger claim than you to that house, at least nowhere in the civilised world.
While Israel may have "won" the territory, it really puts them in an annoying position, because they can't annex it (the muslims would become a much larger percentage, and Israel's precious "Jewish Democracy" would be at risk), but they want the land (without all those pesky people on it), and there are these irritating international laws that prohibit population transfers and ethnic cleansing, so what they do, they have to do discreetly: make life unbearable for those there with the blockade, the attacks, and illegal settlers, who on the surface they pretend to be against, but who are actually serving their purpose.
edit on 20-11-2012 by babloyi because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 12:17 AM
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bab



They do it simply through having lived there.

Also, "Possession is 9/10ths of the law" is simply an expression. It isn't an ACTUAL law, secular or otherwise. If I captured your house and kicked you out, that wouldn't give me 9 times a stronger claim than you to that house, at least nowhere in the civilised world.


well there you go. the Palestinians are using the possession rule to try to deny someone else the possession rule. (i agree with you ethically, that it is better to learn to live together peaceably than to take land in conquest, but islam is certainly not a stranger to it).


CaptChaos



Take away the 3 billion per day they receive from their deluded slaves, the US, and see how long they last. I'd give them about two weeks. Text


the history of the jews in palestine begins, not in the biblical text but in the account of the pharaoh ahmose of egypt, so i don't think you can claim it isn't historically validated outside of texts written specifically by jews, that jews lived in palestine before muslims did.

also, the idea that people's taxes that go to help others, automatically makes them slaves, would also apply to all the muslims living in western nations that benefit from the taxes the western govs collect to provide shelter, food and medicine for muslim and african immigrants. according to your reasoning, the people of the US are then slaves to the israelis, the muslims and pretty much every other country that benefits from the monies that are taxed out of our pockets. also, i wouldn't be so quick to forget the tax muslims levy against non-muslims in their lands.

that you don't mention any of this, indicates you are not interested in an honest discussion.

edit on 21-11-2012 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 12:55 AM
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reply to post by undo
 

Hey undo!


Originally posted by undo
well there you go. the Palestinians are using the possession rule to try to deny someone else the possession rule. (i agree with you ethically, that it is better to learn to live together peaceably than to take land in conquest, but islam is certainly not a stranger to it).

The thing is, that "someone else" was the one that came in from outside, and moved in and invaded/occupied those territories (and I refer to the non-native european jews, not the ones already living there).
People really seem intent on looking at this through a religious lens, but religion is really irrelevant to this issue. To claim that the jews deserve the land for simply for being jews is immensely stupid and illogical. To claim the muslims deserve the land simply for being muslim (which no one is actually seriously doing, as far as I can see) is just as stupid and illogical. Sure, Hamas and Palestinian muslims use Islam as justification for what they are doing ("Fight those who fight you", "Drive them out of where they drove you out", "Oppression is worse than fighting", etc.), but that is no different than Bush saying that God told him to attack Iraq: simply using religion to further causes that are not really related to religion.

If instead of religion, one attempts to use ancient history instead, it doesn't work either. Sure, at some point in the past jews may have lived/ruled in some of those areas. Then they got conquered for thousands of years and they didn't. And they themselves took it in conquest from another group.

Again if instead one tries using race (even though there is no such thing as an exclusively jewish race), as a justification- I've heard this several times: "Every race/ethnic group/religion in the world have their own country to call home, why not jews?"...it is, honestly, aside from being absurd and false, also ridiculously racist. Every race/ethnic group/religion in the world DOESN'T have its own country to call home, and there is no reason for this to be so, and it being so would not necessarily be a good thing. I thought the US already learnt in the 60s 70s that racial isolationism and segregation was not the answer.

PS:

Originally posted by undo
I wouldn't be so quick to forget the tax muslims levy against non-muslims in their lands.

No "Muslim land" today levies tax on non-muslims.
edit on 21-11-2012 by babloyi because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 01:11 AM
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To claim the muslims deserve the land simply for being muslim (which no one is actually seriously doing, as far as I can see) is just as stupid and illogical


and the reason they aren't, is because they are using the possession rule. they possessed the land before the jews came back. and the jews claim they possessed the land before jerusalem was sacked by muhammad, and prior to that, before jerusalem was sacked by some roman emperor. and prior to that, when they were expelled (exodus'ed) out of egypt, at which point they went to palestine, which was called canaan at the time, if i remember correctly, and overthrew the occupants and possessed it. this is essentially the point of the discourse you're referring to. if occupation of the land guarantees you eternal ownership, then muslims/arabs in foreign lands, jews in foreign lands, europeans in foreign lands would all have to return to their homelands immediately, as would orientals(to the far east), africans (to africa), and native americans (who would have to go back to asia).

yeah it's even sillier when you start applying it globally.

if jews had to go back to their homeland, they would have to choose between israel and any of the other nations they were in captivity to or dispersed to, over their history. as would any other person who had a mixed ethnic heritage. eenie meanie minie moe.
edit on 21-11-2012 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 01:18 AM
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"Why the hatred for the Isaelis?"

Simple answer, anti-Semitism. Since it's no longer vogue to be a publicly admitted anti-semite, the easiest way express anti-semitism is by using the state of Israel as a proxy. Gives the Jew haters some cover to hide behind.

Question, answer. We can wrap this up now. 8>D



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 01:38 AM
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bab



No "Muslim land" today levies tax on non-muslims.


yeah now they just burn down and bomb their houses, churches, businesses, synagogues, and rape and kill their women and children, and torture their men to death as well. cathy didn't have a veil on, she must be a whore, let's gang rape her. pretty soon, everyone just leaves (if they survive) because their life expectancy is worse than an ethiopian's.
edit on 21-11-2012 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 02:46 AM
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i apologize, that was over the top. : /
the topic of racism and bigotry is not dealt with honestly, which drives people who were not racist or bigotted, to sound racist or bigotted or to become racist or bigotted. you should hear how the people of sweden are starting to sound. and they were all gun ho to help the muslims and palestinians. bad social experiment, because islam is not designed to get along with other groups. it's designed to rule other groups. it doesn't have any room for allowing people to follow their own paths, so naturally, tolerance, even though they demand it, is not something they are very good at giving to others. it's part of the entire package and destiny of islam. it's their way or the highway. this is the total opposite of the mindset of most of the people in the western world. (not their governments but the citizens of the countries).



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 03:27 AM
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reply to post by undo
 

That's okay..most of the stuff you said is certainly not exclusive to Islam.
I of course, disagree with the notion that Islam breeds some sort of automaton hatred machine that can't get along with anyone else. That is demonstrably false.

You're from Sweden? Sweden seems to be at least keeping its head insofar as the bigotry and racism goes, which really is commendable: SD Erik Almqvist's recent "outing" and vilification in the media, the general disdain the SD has in the majority and in the media (despite them gaining a couple of percentage points recently, of course), and the hilariously dismal showings of supporters for the SDL and SM protests (where they're usually outnumbered 10 to 1 by counter protestors).
edit on 21-11-2012 by babloyi because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 03:57 AM
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Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by undo
 

That's okay..most of the stuff you said is certainly not exclusive to Islam.
I of course, disagree with the notion that Islam breeds some sort of automaton hatred machine that can't get along with anyone else. That is demonstrably false.

You're from Sweden? Sweden seems to be at least keeping its head insofar as the bigotry and racism goes, which really is commendable: SD Erik Almqvist's recent "outing" and vilification in the media, the general disdain the SD has in the majority and in the media (despite them gaining a couple of percentage points recently, of course), and the hilariously dismal showings of supporters for the SDL and SM protests (where they're usually outnumbered 10 to 1 by counter protestors).
edit on 21-11-2012 by babloyi because: (no reason given)


you realize of course, that westernized people are about as far away from shar'ia law as day is from night? being female, i'm pretty sure more women have been abused in the name of religion, than muslims have been abused by any other group in their history. you're looking down the barrel of extinction. read the declaration of independence. note that it says there that people will put up with abuse for only so long and then tshtf.



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 03:58 AM
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reply to post by HabiruThorstein
 


I do not think it is acceptable to link Judaism with Israel in the same way you have. For a start, it is not fundamentally accurate to say that Israels government, speaks for, or acts in accordance with the wishes and beliefs of all persons of the Jewish faith. Israels government are regularly petitioned to stop various of thier behaviors, by Jewish groups, and collections of individuals.

Many of the holocaust survivor groups are sickened by the behavior of the Israeli government over some matters, including but not limited to thier abuse of Palestinians, and thier constant and illegal expansion of thier territory.

Personally speaking, I have nothing but love for the Jews as a religion, and as a people. But the Israeli leadership does not speak for a people, nor does it speak for a religion. It speaks for the same thing any government speaks for, and that is itself, and the very powerful men who run it.

Me myself, I am a Christian. But Rome does not speak for me, and nor does any centre of power. I speak for me, and there is nought between me and my God. And yet people assume that because I am a believer in Christ, that I must be indoctrinated into a particular POLITICAL belief or set thereof. This is not true, and should not be. Being of a faith does not and, should not mean that one automatically is associated with a particular political ideology. Faith and politics are only linked by those who wish to spread hate, from within a faith, or from outside it.

This lever cannot be applied to people who have both faith and wisdom. Your argument therefore, is utterly invalid.



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 04:05 AM
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Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by HabiruThorstein
 


I do not think it is acceptable to link Judaism with Israel in the same way you have. For a start, it is not fundamentally accurate to say that Israels government, speaks for, or acts in accordance with the wishes and beliefs of all persons of the Jewish faith. Israels government are regularly petitioned to stop various of thier behaviors, by Jewish groups, and collections of individuals.

Many of the holocaust survivor groups are sickened by the behavior of the Israeli government over some matters, including but not limited to thier abuse of Palestinians, and thier constant and illegal expansion of thier territory.

Personally speaking, I have nothing but love for the Jews as a religion, and as a people. But the Israeli leadership does not speak for a people, nor does it speak for a religion. It speaks for the same thing any government speaks for, and that is itself, and the very powerful men who run it.

Me myself, I am a Christian. But Rome does not speak for me, and nor does any centre of power. I speak for me, and there is nought between me and my God. And yet people assume that because I am a believer in Christ, that I must be indoctrinated into a particular POLITICAL belief or set thereof. This is not true, and should not be. Being of a faith does not and, should not mean that one automatically is associated with a particular political ideology. Faith and politics are only linked by those who wish to spread hate, from within a faith, or from outside it.

This lever cannot be applied to people who have both faith and wisdom. Your argument therefore, is utterly invalid.


that's not what he's saying. he's saying the anti-semitism is towards all jews, anywhere, be they zionist or not, is irrelevant. that israel appears to be behaving as imperialists, is an useful tool, for condemning all jews, same as blaming all americans for the actions of the american government.

however, it requires ignoring that islam has become increasingly imperialistic itself. ignoring something doesn't make it untrue. if truth is what you're after you have to look it square in the eye and accept what is there as evident or accuse your eyes of lying to you.
edit on 21-11-2012 by undo because: (no reason given)






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