Why the hatred for the Israelis?

Originally posted by Allenb83
Many of them could have spread out all over the world if they wanted to. They could have even gone to America. Nobody forced them to settle on the land that for a thousand years previous was the palestinians.

Can you show me a map of this country known as Palestine which, according to you, existed for 1000 years? Because I'm intrigued.

Why am I intrigued? Because I'm of the impression that the area where Israel is now situated was part of Ottoman Syria until the Ottomans were defeated by the British in WWI and that all the states around Israel - Lebanon, Jordan, the Palestinian Authorty, the Gaza Strip, modern Syria and parts of Turkey and Iraq - were also, just like Israel, carved out of Ottoman Syria.

But you and your fellow pro-"Palestinians" keep banging on about there once being an ancient Palestinian nation state in that area which suddenly ceased to exist when the nasty Jews came along and annexed it.

I want you to provide prove of that - now - in the form of a map. Also, if you can, give me a list of all of the leaders who once ruled this Palestinian state.

reply to post by Sicksicksick
Here's a map of Ptolemaic Palestine >>



It was drawn up in 1889.

Ptolemy was a scholar and general genius who was born in the 1st Century.

There's a good wiki on the History of Palestine.

Originally posted by DerekJR321

There's always an excuse for Israel... isn't there.

There's always an excuse for the "Palestinians" more like. They can kill as many Israeli civilians as they like and don't get hit by UN resolutions.

If the UN was so "anti-Israel".. they would have granted Palestine statehood. If they were so "anti-Israel" they would have done more than just wag their finger at Israel.

We all know the UN is anti-Israel. As I pointed out above the UN treats Israel more harshly than it does other states. China receives no UN resolutions for the way it treats its 1.3 billion people yet the slightest little thing Israel does results in it receiving a UN resolution. There is nothing, in my mind, which justifies the fact that Israel has 76% of the total UN resolutions.

Then again.. they might be anti-Israel. Didn't Israel blow up a bunch of UN buildings and people during Operation Cast Lead?

And didn't Hamas, like it is doing now, use the civilian men, women and children as human shields during that conflict?

Did Hamas call upon Palestinian civilians to gather near buildings where they feared that the IDF was about to launch air-strikes against Hamas targets?

Is it not the case that, during that conflict, a Hamas brigade commander said: "The entire people of Gaza are the combatants and therefore, it is appropriate for us to issue warnings and then whether – if, even if they disregard them, to occupy their basement or their house or their backyard"?

Is it not the case that, in reference to that operation, the former commander of the British forces in Afghanistan Col. Richard Kemp testified at UN Human Rights Council 12th Special Session that Israel encountered an "enemy that deliberately positioned its military capability behind the human shield of the civilian population"?

Yet how many UN resolutions have Hamas and the Palestinians received for this barbarity?

None whatsoever.

Also, Palestine, pre-Israel might not have been an official "State"... but there is absolutely no denying that the land was Palestinian prior to the British handing it over to the Zionists.

I'm under the impression that the area known geographically as Palestine has TWO new states occupying it that were both formed in 1948 - Israel and Jordan. So why are you singling out Israel? Why is Jordan allowed to occupy the territory known as Palestine but not Israel?

Palestine is merely a term for the geographic region between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River and various adjoining lands. That area has been occupied by MANY different states and territories over the years and now is no different.

And what was in that area immediately before Israel came along? It was the Mandate of Palestine. The Mandate of Palestine was created by the British in 1920 from the southern part of Ottoman Syria. TWO states - not one - came out of the Mandate for Palestine in 1948 - Israel AND Jordan. So why, in the minds of the supporters of the "Palestinians", is Jordan allowed to occupy that area but not Israel?

And what other territories in the area were formed out of Ottoman Syria other than Israel? The answer is Jordan, Lebanon, the Palestinian Authority, the Gaza Strips, parts of Turkey and Iraq and modern Syria.

Yet, for some reason, Israel is condemned for occupying the area but the others aren't. Why?

Originally posted by michael1983l
Well if Hamas didn't hide amongst the civilians and launch rocket attacks from there, Israel would not be forced to fire back. Simple no?

Well if Israel wasn't there in the first place there would be no trouble on either end. You can't just come into a country and take it over and expect the world to not see you as a bad guy. Nice try.

How about this? They're all a bunch of jerks for fighting over a bunch of sand and a couple of books full of archaic ideas.

The United States was created by a bunch of civillians turned Patriots. This is much like the situation Hamas endures every day. We hid like cowards in the woods just the way terrorists do in Gaza is just a much smaller area and they have pretty much been forced on to the smallest tract of land they have ever known. I'm sure the sentiment in Gaza is as follows "this mother and child are a perfect shield against an Israel missile attack, their small innocent bodies are exactly what I need to protect me". If you didn't get that I was being sarcastic people fight oppressors because they have taken their lives away, their children have lived in only fear never knowing a day of safety. Children seeing their elders in fear of an oppressive occupation army with tanks bulldozers jets, and their own nuclear programs that have been under zero scrutiny by any nation. If the Jews are truly virtuous people who believe in a God like they say they do how have they turned into what their oppressors in Germany started as? They blame problems on people that are not Jewish just like Germans said it was nothing but the Jews. I cannot believe that receiving that type of treatment as a culture they have turned their back on their religion as an entire religious state. The fact they have to have lobbyists in the United States to manipulate news stories about them here for the sheeple to see undermines that they are any sort of humanitarian nation. I think it's useless to try to change now though, they already pissed their neighbors off and long term memory in the middle east is pretty long. In reality they should quit the religious act and move on, and just be who they truly are, a bunch of people living on borrowed
and stolen land.

reply to post by Logarock


So when Native Indians start killing your family and tell you to get the hell off their land, you're going to go quietly eh?

reply to post by Beavers

First I'll offer them beads and mirrors.

Originally posted by michael1983l
There is a general odour of Israeli hatred on this forum recently and to be honest I am a bit perplexed as to why this is so.The Jews were driven out of Europe after the second World War because no country wanted to harbour them so they were forced to settle on land that was not historically theirs. These people have to live somewhere right?

Yes, we've all had our history lesson about the torment of the jews..we could go on and on. Which is why we have a hard time understanding why they would go an inflict DECADES of oppression and genocide upon another people

Then people get on their backs when they strike the Palastinians after being bombarded by rocket attacks, these Palestinians hide behind Civilians and with cowardly acts of indescriminatley showering rockets on Jewish settlements.

Uhhh buddy, You just left out about 75 years of oppression and Genocide against the Palestinian people and left out the small fact that they uprooted them from their own land.

I can't speak for all people here, but i can speak for myself and I believe this is pretty much the general consensus here. No one hates the Jews for being Jews. It's the policy of the Jewish people that is the problem. This does not include ALL Jewish people. In fact it probably does not account for MOST jewish people. However, there policy is a terrible murderous one and has been for a LONG LONG time.

You'll also notice that most people against Jewish policy are also against American foreign policy. This is because they're both one in the same. This has very little to do with actual racism. For most of us anyway.

reply to post by Beavers


Being that I'm from immigrants only 2 or 3 generations in the US this place may be where I was raised but I hardly agree with what has been goin on here and around the world. I'd rather like to see a resurgence of the native American ways, hey it would sure combat the laziness and the under appreciation of nature and all its wonders and resources. In other words I could give all this up and live in a tent for the rest of my days if it came to it.

Originally posted by Poofmander
reply to post by Beavers

 

Being that I'm from immigrants only 2 or 3 generations in the US this place may be where I was raised but I hardly agree with what has been goin on here and around the world. I'd rather like to see a resurgence of the native American ways, hey it would sure combat the laziness and the under appreciation of nature and all its wonders and resources. In other words I could give all this up and live in a tent for the rest of my days if it came to it.

Yeah, and then we can all walking into war camps as another nation quickly takes us over. That way we can REALLY get the Indian experience!

Let's go forward, not backward.

I read a lot of comments on how Palestinian civilian casualties are HAMAS fault for being cowards hiding amongst civilian population. Let's not forget that HAMAS are people too, not some faceless evil.

So if this is what you believe then you have to ask yourself the question, what position should HAMAS take to defend themselves? Maybe a hilltop - where they can wait for a laser guided Israeli missile strike.

OK...lets say that right this second, everyone stopped fighting. Everything over there stops. We can call this peace. But when either side fires a rocket, etc...we call it war. So, if everything stopped now, and there is peace exactly how long do you think it would take for someone to fire a shot? And more importantly, who would fire?

My guess...less than a week and Hamas would break the peace. That is why I personally consider them the "bad guys".

reply to post by foodstamp


Yes because forward is continuing to do the one thing we have always done as a nation, and destroy other #. I'm tired of it, figure out a way to stop spending money on how to blow up more than half the surface of the planet and I'll call that moving forward, and this whole war camp idea do you realize the only reason that happened back then was because of the major suffering caused by European disease that more than decimated the population of natives here in the Americas. The natives we captured and moved into camps were losing before we even started to try to beat them. The world has changed we should really just make a bunch of EMPs and let em loose make everyone try and be a real person rather than the ones they see on tv and if we need to go through some suffering than so be it, why are we the generation that feels no strife? Truly feeling anguish changes you and if you have never felt it you are indeed less human than the rest if us who have.

reply to post by WeAreAWAKE


My question to you is why would Hamas fight a former enemy that hasn't fired a shot in two weeks, oh because they still own their land and are still living in a place where they have no say in what goes on who comes who goes . It's not as simple as saying HAMAS will do something. These people are individuals and individuals have a habit of working to their own gain and in a war torn part of the world communication between combatants that are far from regular troops is nil. I just ask you to go back and look at the historical significance of who fired the first shot in our modern day holy land and maybe you might want to change your very educated guess.

already been said really but to highlight this again, it is the Israeli government that seems to be disliked as opposed to all the people who live there and the main problem the rational thinking people have against them seems to be the fact that flout international law quite blatantly with no apparent consequence ... its just not right ... and therefore seem almost above any laws .. . It would be nice to see some equality! To make matters worse, after reading about scores of palestinians being killed through this conflict most western media outlets seem to have the view they are simply defending themselves .. its an insult to peoples intelligence .. they are both attacking one another !

Originally posted by TheIceQueen
Woah,, I must be dreaming, I swear it looks like an overwhelming amount of people seem to be on the side of extremist Terrorists who's greatest wish is the death and destruction of the west.

Actually I think you will find the overwhelming amount of people will be on the side of the innocents........no matter which side they are on.

The Israeli regime will get a lot of criticism because they by far will kill more innocents than Hamas rockets will.

Many here are not condoning terrorist actions such as the rockets that Hamas fire........but they certainly do not condone Israeli bombing of innocents........and the IDF know that women & children may well be in the target zones......but they bomb them anyway.......because they can always blame Hamas.......so it's okay then!

Mark Regev the Israeli spokesman, was being interviewed on the news this evening, and he actually said.......that they(The IDF) had bombed over 1,000 targets, so the 67 or so "casualties" (Killed not injured), was"not bad".
Therein lies the problem.......... the Israeli administration view the ordinary Gazan as a second class citizen.........so if they kill some by mistake........well it's not our fault.......it's the other guys.

.........And all this loss of life on both sides........because Netanyahu wants to get re-elected?

Ha-Irgun Ha-Tzvai Ha-Leumi be-Eretz Yisrael

I think people see Israel as a bastion of civilization and education in the Middle East, of gentility and culture, of values long established in the cultures of Europe and North America, of hope for a future imbued with kindness and with creativity, in which the desert will flower and people will live in harmony.

People feel let down. Worse, they feel that a significant percentage of Israelis are actually working against the ideals of harmony.

This whole conflict has become greater than the sum of its issues, unfortunately. It is no longer a matter of land and civil and criminal damages. It is a matter of principle and of religion and history, all the things that human beings hold onto when they have abandoned rationality as a guide in life.

Why do people hate Israelis? Jahweh made them that way.

reply to post by michael1983l


So that justifies it?
You think Isreal is thinking "man I really wish I didn't have to bombard that school full of children to get three terrorists I think are in there, but it's THEIR FAULT." I guess the Israeli soldiers are just "taking orders."

I almost replied to your first post saying you have little grasp on what's going on there. I read to your second post and now here I am saying "you have little grasp on what's going on there."

You are blaming the victims. How is it there fault that they are bombed (way disproportionately btw) by Israel because armed men are hiding among them ( a face that have no control over).

Also, you don't see that first the Isrealis have no more right to the land, keep pushing for more land, and basically hold the Palestinians hostage while doing so.
You are missing that this whole thing is a facade. It is a less conspicous way to gather reservists and prepare for a strike on Iran. They will need soldiers for the proxy attacks after they bomb Iran.

Israel is a war monger. This is all a plan that is being executed. It's not like this is their first rocket attack.. they are reacting differently for a reason. They are impossible to trust. It is not a civilian thing, it is not a Jewish thing. It is a zionist government thing. How can we even trust that there was a reason to attack Gaza this time? I mean with Ben's election coming up.